Should Scotland be Independent?

[dust1n]

Gotta admit, I was pretty bummed when I heard the news.

 

[Whiterain]

I woke up this morning expecting Scotland to be leaving the U.K on television.

No comment...

 

[Jeremy Taylor]

And Westminster is already backpedaling on reform and change.

Really Scotland you are the joke of the entire continent. They arent going to give you more substantial rights and there wont be another referendum. Its over for good.

Now please change your anthem for Sporting events.

No, the joke was talking about independence whilst remaining in the EU. This is absurd. What is the point of leaving Britain to enter into a project that desires nothing less than a United States of Europe?

 

[Jeremy Taylor]

Yeah uhm the concession by Cameron and his Goons were without the approval of Parliament.

Just sayin because i hear thats kinda important.

Perhaps, though Coreper is more powerful than parliament, in many ways, in England.

Committee of Permanent Representatives - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[oldbadger]

The Northern Irish might not all like the English but they know it's in their interest to be chummy with England, and the English admire the Irish because they won't let anybody push 'em around and have got a fearsome temper!

For examp I once dated an Irish woman living in England and got invites round her place for meals with her and her teenage son and we all got on great until I blew it.
What happened was that she'd undercooked the bacon one evening and it was like chewing rubber, I'd been chewing it for 15 minutes and it still wouldn't go down.
Then when she nipped in the kitchen I fished it out of my mouth when her son wasn't looking and slung it behind the settee for her cat but it wouldn't touch it.
I meant to pick it up later but I completely forgot about it and she must have found it after I'd gone home.
She never mentioned it, but she cooled off towards me after that and we eventually drifted apart, the last thing she ever said to me was when she yelled down the phone "You're not a very nice man and I don't want to talk to you again" and slammed the phone down!

See? That's what wasting your parents' money at Swiss Finishing Schools does for ya!

 

[oldbadger]

Gotta admit, I was pretty bummed when I heard the news.

I think that Scotland had won, even before the vote took place. With the whole world for witnesses, all the main party leaders promised more self determination, more financial freedom, more concessions, more self identification...... to Scotland, whilst saving it from currency, banking, military and many other difficulties.

Alex Salmond had won his battle before Thursday, did he but know. There was no need for him to resign.

And before long the Parliaments of Wales and Northern Ireland can seek similar powers whilst keeping any 'Brit bits' that could be convenient for them.

And then Cornwall will want a 'say'......

 

[Estro Felino]

It was so obvious what the results would be.

 

[niceguy]

Now Cameron is in trouble. The Scots voted against leaving but Cameron promised them even more self government, something he didn't have a mandate to promise them. Still this promise most likely effected the outcome of the referendum. There will be an debate if it was enough to keep Scotland British or if they would have stayed anyway. I guess the pro independence people will reboot their movement soon due to this if Camerons promise are not fulfilled.

I voted "other " since I am not a Scotsman and as such it is not up to me to decide what they should do.

 

[Shuttlecraft]

I woke up this morning expecting Scotland to be leaving the U.K on television.

No comment...

Ha ha the jock neanderthal separatists are in a right tizzy..
England's King Edward I (below) was known as 'The Hammer of the Scots', he conquered 'em good and proper and I suppose they've never forgiven England for it..

 

[oldbadger]

Indeed, I realise this may be the outcome for England. I may have to emigrate to Scotland!

Damn...... you may have to anyway, now. All the papers are talking about an England-only Parliament where Scots, Irish and Welsh(?) MPs would not vote for or against England-only legislation.

There might be 'England-only' sessions, one day a week. Hmmmm....... which Scottish coastline has the better winters, I wonder?

 

[oldbadger]

Many in Ulster are loyalists. Scotland, not so much.

Hmmmm......

 

[lewisnotmiller]

The Northern Irish might not all like the English but they know it's in their interest to be chummy with England, and the English admire the Irish because they won't let anybody push 'em around and have got a fearsome temper!

'Northern Irish' kinda just proves my point. You speak of 600 years of solidarity, then mention how the 'Northern Irish' know it's in their best interest to be chummy with England.

The fact that there are Northern Irish at all speaks to why I suggested mentioning Irish as part of your 'British brotherhood' is guilding the lily.

 

[Shuttlecraft]

'Northern Irish' kinda just proves my point. You speak of 600 years of solidarity, then mention how the 'Northern Irish' know it's in their best interest to be chummy with England.
The fact that there are Northern Irish at all speaks to why I suggested mentioning Irish as part of your 'British brotherhood' is guilding the lily.

Incidentally mate, as you're an Aussie, can you tell us what's the current state of play regarding the Aussie separatists who want to split from England?
Do they outnumber those who want to stay with England?

 

[Yerda]

I'm ashamed of my Scottish heritage. No wonder why I'm more proud of my Irish heritage. For shame.

Well, that's an easy response. But try to keep in mind that the people of Scotland were on the end of the Westminster propaganda machine for weeks in the run up to the vote.

The constant stream of scare stories from Bitter Together was replicated endlessly without challenge in every single mainstream media outlet in UK.

They successfully pushed our focus onto Alex Salmond, dangled him as the embodiment of the independence movement, and then assasinated his character. You can see this even here in the posts of UK members who are unable (or unwilling) to make the distinction. In the days before the vote the papers were quoting BT leaders claiming Salmond was motivated by anti-Englishness. Quite aside from being a shameful lie, it was never challenged. No-one was ever asked to verify this nonsense.

The Yes movement was unable to convince the people of Scotland that they should govern themselves, and that is deeply humiliating no mistake, but it's difficult to see how it could have won given it was a movement of ordinary people arguing against the combined apparatus of the UK establishment. We went up against the most entrenched elite on our planet and came close. In that I am immensly proud of us. And so should you be.

 

[sandandfoam]

The Yes movement was unable to convince the people of Scotland that they should govern themselves, and that is deeply humiliating no mistake, but it's difficult to see how it could have won given it was a movement of ordinary people arguing against the combined apparatus of the UK establishment. We went up against the most entrenched elite on our planet and came close. In that I am immensly proud of us. And so should you be.

It is of course easy from the outside. My gut reaction from the outside was 'no'. However, watching both sides as the campaign unfolded swung me to the 'yes' side.
I think this campaign has shown me that the union is a relic whose time has passed.

I think some sort of federal association between all the peoples of these islands is the future.

 

[Yerda]

It is of course easy from the outside. My gut reaction from the outside was 'no'. However, watching both sides as the campaign unfolded swung me to the 'yes' side.
I think this campaign has shown me that the union is a relic whose time has passed.

I think some sort of federal association between all the peoples of these islands is the future.

I agree. I think a federal UK would be much better than independence.

 

[Vouthon]

I agree. I think a federal UK would be much better than independence.

Let me 'third' that I was speaking to a female friend who was a Yes voter during the campaign season and she actually told me that she was happy that 'no' won on the basis of greater devolution being given to all four nations within the UK. She understood my explanation that my voting 'no' was not because I didn't want change, just simply that I didn't want separation and fragmentation.

To be honest I think that now that there is no longer any 'Yes' or 'No' campaigns, we can now see how much in common we really have. Our goal is surely one now: to create a strong Scottish parliament with extensive powers.

I think that the Scottish people have actually begun a process of constitutional change that will benefit the entire UK. No one I know voted 'no' because they want the status quo ante.

I have longed for federalism in this country for years.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Well, that's an easy response. But try to keep in mind that the people of Scotland were on the end of the Westminster propaganda machine for weeks in the run up to the vote.

The constant stream of scare stories from Bitter Together was replicated endlessly without challenge in every single mainstream media outlet in UK.

They successfully pushed our focus onto Alex Salmond, dangled him as the embodiment of the independence movement, and then assasinated his character. You can see this even here in the posts of UK members who are unable (or unwilling) to make the distinction. In the days before the vote the papers were quoting BT leaders claiming Salmond was motivated by anti-Englishness. Quite aside from being a shameful lie, it was never challenged. No-one was ever asked to verify this nonsense.

The Yes movement was unable to convince the people of Scotland that they should govern themselves, and that is deeply humiliating no mistake, but it's difficult to see how it could have won given it was a movement of ordinary people arguing against the combined apparatus of the UK establishment. We went up against the most entrenched elite on our planet and came close. In that I am immensly proud of us. And so should you be.

Yes, that is true. What I posted earlier was just a knee-jerk reaction but I shouldn't be so harsh. It's difficult to fight a war of propaganda when the other side has such a strong upper hand.

Haha, "Bitter Together"? Freudian slip?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Incidentally mate, as you're an Aussie, can you tell us what's the current state of play regarding the Aussie separatists who want to split from England?
Do they outnumber those who want to stay with England?

Mostly apathy, in truth.
Our few practical links with England these days centre around the monarchy (Gov General being the Queen's rep in Australia, and head of state, though it's almost purely ceremonial), and the monarchy is more popular than it's been in years, mostly thanks to William and Kate.

'If it ain't broke, don't fix it' would probably be the most popular response, I would guess.

 

[Shuttlecraft]

Mostly apathy, in truth.
Our few practical links with England these days centre around the monarchy (Gov General being the Queen's rep in Australia, and head of state, though it's almost purely ceremonial), and the monarchy is more popular than it's been in years, mostly thanks to William and Kate.
'If it ain't broke, don't fix it' would probably be the most popular response, I would guess.

Yes it'd be a pity to break the links with Mother England considering aviation pioneers like Kingsford Smith (below) gave their lives forging those links in the first place-