Should Scotland be Independent?

[lewisnotmiller]

Yes it'd be a pity to break the links with Mother England considering aviation pioneers like Kingsford Smith (below) gave their lives forging those links in the first place-

Welp, I'm a republican, so...
But there's not a strong republican movement here at the moment. I have no particular issue with England (my grandfather was a Pom), but it's been a long time since our relationships with England were the countries most important.

And monarchism is an anachronism to my mind.

It wouldn't change the history between the countries at all for Australia to become a republic. Might require a change of the flag though...lol

 

[Shuttlecraft]

...It wouldn't change the history between the countries at all for Australia to become a republic..

Hmm.. there are 200 million Muslims on Oz's doorstep in Indonesia, so if an 'Asiatic Hitler' arises in the future and invades Oz (population 23 mill), Oz will need all the mates she can get, so it's in her interest to stay chummy with Britain (pop 60 mill)
I think a main reason the jocks voted to stick with England is because they know England is a good mate to have..

PS- I tried to emigrate to Oz 30 years ago but they wouldn't let me in because I never had a trade, what cheek!
Yet some of my old mates had got in alright back in the 60's when the Oz government weren't so fussy!
I suppose I could still get in on a "holiday" visa, then vanish into the outback and live like Croc Dundee for the rest of my life.
Or I could marry an Aussie Sheila and they couldn't deport me then..

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Hmm.. there are 200 million Muslims on Oz's doorstep in Indonesia, so if an 'Asiatic Hitler' arises in the future and invades Oz (population 23 mill), Oz will need all the mates she can get, so it's in her interest to stay chummy with Britain (pop 60 mill)
I think a main reason the jocks voted to stick with England is because they know England is a good mate to have..

We cast our lot with the Americans a long time ago, in terms of military alliance. It was an obvious consequence of WW2, given that it was US-Australian forces that stopped the Japanese when they were on our doorstep in PNG, and American forces which stopped them in a more general sense. If Asia threatened, be it China, Indonesia, or anyone else, it wouldn't be to the UK we'd turn.

We have some agreements with the Brits, but whether we have a Governor General or a President wouldn't effect such things in the least anyway.

PS- I tried to emigrate to Oz 30 years ago but they wouldn't let me in because I never had a trade, what cheek!
Yet some of my old mates had got in alright back in the 60's when the Oz government weren't so fussy!

Yup, timing is everything. Immigrating as a Brit would have been far easier pre/post WW2 periods. Got harder late 70's or so and forwards. Only people who get an easier crack now are New Zealanders, really.

I suppose I could still get in on a "holiday" visa, then vanish into the outback and live like Croc Dundee for the rest of my life.

LOL...true.

Or I could marry an Aussie Sheila and they couldn't deport me then..

That can be tricky, actually. I know people who've married for that reason, and there are plenty of hoops you need to jump through to prove the relationship is legit, etc.
Having a kid with said Aussie Sheila is probably more effective.

 

[Shuttlecraft]

..We cast our lot with the Americans a long time ago, in terms of military alliance......If Asia threatened, be it China, Indonesia, or anyone else, it wouldn't be to the UK we'd turn...

Churchill said- "In war, one has neither friends nor enemies, only interests"
so IF a future American administration thinks it's in her interest to help Oz you've got zilch to worry about, otherwise you'll be up the spout if you've already cut loose from Britain..

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Churchill said- "In war, one has neither friends nor enemies, only interests"
so IF a future American administration thinks it's in her interest to help Oz you've got zilch to worry about, otherwise you'll be up the spout if you've already cut loose from Britain..

I'm not sure why you're suggesting Britain is any more immune from being a fair weather friend than the Americans would be, but a cursory glance at our strategic situation would suggest the Americans are far more invested.

That's not a knock on Britain in any way. But, since in war one has neither friends nor enemies, only interests, it behooves us to act with forethought and planning, rather than relying on colonial bonds which haven't proved at all useful in protecting our interests and borders since...erm...

When did they EVER prove effective in protecting our borders and interests?

Meh, anyway. The thought of Australia relying on Britain for anything these days is ludicrous.

China, Japan, the USA, Korea...heck, even Singapore are larger economic partners to Australia.
And whilst there are some useful ties between the UK and Australia in a military sense, our US alliance dwarfs all others in terms of importance. We have agreements with various Asian countries, since that is the region which effects our border security.

On a global scale, the UK, US and Australia have generally acted in concert of recent years. That's not because of ties between the UK and Australia, but there are obvious commonalities in global view at the moment (at least).

 

[oldbadger]

China, Japan, the USA, Korea...heck, even Singapore are larger economic partners to Australia.

.......... Tesco sells Ostrich and Kangaroo joints from Oz, you know...!!!
.......... Huh!...... the nerve of these Aussies.....

 

[oldbadger]

I think some sort of federal association between all the peoples of these islands is the future.

Yes! Yes!

Let's see how the proposed legislation turns out. It's promised for January now. Gordon Browne seems very determined to keep all promises made. Let's give 'em the benefit of the doubt for now.

I think that England, Wales, N.Ireland, Scotland and (one day) maybe Cornwall will have their own full governments.

 

[Noaidi]

Yes! Yes!

Let's see how the proposed legislation turns out. It's promised for January now. Gordon Browne seems very determined to keep all promises made. Let's give 'em the benefit of the doubt for now.

I think that England, Wales, N.Ireland, Scotland and (one day) maybe Cornwall will have their own full governments.

I believe the proposals will either be reneged upon or watered down at best. We don't even fully know what these supposed additional powers are, let alone when they are to be implemented.
I wonder how many 'No' voters are now seriously reflecting on their decision, given the paucity of concrete information coming from Westminster. Several Tory MPs, it transpires, were urged to be silent regarding their dissent over increased powers to Scotland during the campaign for fear that it would bolster the Yes vote. Now that it's all over, they are now voicing their disapproval.
We had an opportunity for self-governance and the majority opted against it.
Why?

 

[Vouthon]

Yes! Yes!

Let's see how the proposed legislation turns out. It's promised for January now. Gordon Browne seems very determined to keep all promises made. Let's give 'em the benefit of the doubt for now.

I think that England, Wales, N.Ireland, Scotland and (one day) maybe Cornwall will have their own full governments.

I would add Shetland and Orkney to that list. The referendum debate has reignited their own demands to be recognized as a nationality separate from Scotland within the UK. They used to be part of the Kingdom of Norway before being handed to us Scots in the 15th century.

 

[Jeremy Taylor]

I agree. I think a federal UK would be much better than independence.

I agree, but we're already part of a would be federation, unfortunately.

Federalism is a guideline, not a pornographic word, you can speak it out loud.

Jacques "Up Yours" Delors, President of the European Commision 1985-1994.

 

[oldbadger]

I would add Shetland and Orkney to that list. The referendum debate has reignited their own demands to be recognized as a nationality separate from Scotland within the UK. They used to be part of the Kingdom of Norway before being handed to us Scots in the 15th century.

I never thought of Shetland and Orkney. Fair enough. (I didn't know that history about them, either).
If our Government does not make good the promises it made, supported by the other two main parties, then the anger generated everywhere could lead to a devolution in the near future. (ten years?)
If any leaders have made promises that they knew could not be kept, then they have to soon become the top all time buffoons in our history.

 

[columbus]

If any leaders have made promises that they knew could not be kept, then they have to soon become the top all time buffoons in our history.

That's an awfully high standard oldbadger.
Tom

 

[Shuttlecraft]

I'm not sure why you're suggesting Britain is any more immune from being a fair weather friend than the Americans would be, but a cursory glance at our strategic situation would suggest the Americans are far more invested...

Oz has got a little Union Jack in the corner of her flag symbolic of the strong blood ties between Oz and Britain (affectionately called 'the old country" by Kingsford Smith), and many Brits have got relatives who've emigrated to Oz.
Heck, a huge chunk of Aussies are poms who emigrated there themselves.
For example in a TV travel show, the interviewer got talking to a woman who runs a big popular restaurant in Oz and it turned out she'd emigrated from England years ago, but none of her customers knew she was a pom.
America by comparison doesn't have the same blood ties with Australia, so if Indonesia invades and the US govt starts talking about going to help, the American people might say "Why should we help? What's Australia to us?"

 

[Yerda]

I have longed for federalism in this country for years.

Time to make it happen!

 

[oldbadger]

That's an awfully high standard oldbadger.
Tom

Hmmm...... Well, yes...... We do pride ourselves on the buffoons that our country has produced.....

But if promises are reneged to Scotland at this time, our Union will tear apart within a few years, is my belief. And no foreign enemy has managed that.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The Northern Irish might not all like the English but they know it's in their interest to be chummy with England, and the English admire the Irish because they won't let anybody push 'em around and have got a fearsome temper!

For examp I once dated an Irish woman living in England and got invites round her place for meals with her and her teenage son and we all got on great until I blew it.
What happened was that she'd undercooked the bacon one evening and it was like chewing rubber, I'd been chewing it for 15 minutes and it still wouldn't go down.
Then when she nipped in the kitchen I fished it out of my mouth when her son wasn't looking and slung it behind the settee for her cat but it wouldn't touch it.
I meant to pick it up later but I completely forgot about it and she must have found it after I'd gone home.
She never mentioned it, but she cooled off towards me after that and we eventually drifted apart, the last thing she ever said to me was when she yelled down the phone "You're not a very nice man and I don't want to talk to you again" and slammed the phone down!

They can be very good judges of character.:run:

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

Should Scotland be Independent? There is a referendum for Scottish Independence, in September 2014.
If any Scottish are around here, what are the reason you would want Scotland to be independent or remain in UK?

No, I'm not Scottish; but I don't think it would be in Scotland's interest to go independent because such a move would only serve to weaken the UK as a geopolitical entity.

Both Scotland and the UK would stand to lose in terms of global ranking.

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

As a Scot my answer to this is a massive no.

Oh, come on, who are you kidding?

I have never known any Scots person call himself "panda"...

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

Yes. Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England should all have their independence. (Northern Ireland should become part of the Republic of Ireland, but first things first...)

So you support Sein Fein then?

Are you an Irish Republican?

Do you support the IRA?

Do you sympathize with terrorists?

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

....... and I'm amazed at how many Scots have declared that they don't want to lose their Queen.

Considering the Queen is half-Scottish what is there to be amazed?