Should teaching eternal hell be a crime?

[839311]

Who said it didn't frighten people? Do you have a quote #?
I disagree with the notion that it is frightening to the point of needing to change the constitution and/or have children taken away, or any MORE frightening than any number of things children are taught/told, most of the time.

Here is a fair comparison that one could make regarding children.

The parent says, "If you will be a bad person, God will send you to hell where you will be tortured forever." And, "If you will continue misbehaving I will spank you so bad you won't be able to sit for a week." This is fair, because both have a threat of violence.

 

[Revoltingest]

The most frightening thing to me is how readily so many people want to ignore the Constitution in order
to create more crimes to prosecute. Freedom of religion, & thought in general, is so eagerly given up.

 

[Azekual]

It seems though, that we have posters who would ban the teaching of Hell because it's possible that parents could abuse children in the course
of teaching it. This could apply to many other child related things, eg, beauty contests, sports, academics, music, discipline, feeding, entertainment.
I was wondering what general strategy would govern making some illegal, while allowing others.

If one were made illegal, there would be a storm to make the others illegal. I personally suspect beauty contests will be the first to go, considering the children don't have a choice, their parents keep the money, and some of the practices used to keep them "Show Ready".
Discipline and Hell would likely be banned at the height of the craze due to their large number of supporters in a normal situation
I think one fo two things would happen from here:

A) A really, REALLY absurd request will pass/almost pass and everyone will look at each other, scratch their heads and say "The ****?". It would all end there. The laws may or may not be over-turned.

B) The Supreme Court steps in (hopefully unswayed by public opinion) and overturns the Anti-Hell and Discipline law (this may nullify several other laws due to the precedent it would set, not clear on how that works). The people will hate it but unless Congress votes to get rid of the constitution, they will have to abide by the Supreme Courts rulings

Either way it would end and all of us sitting back, laughing would be dissapointed to see it end so soon.

I apologize for any misspellings. My eyes are dilated, so my bad eyes are made worse

 

[839311]

The most frightening thing to me is how readily so many people want to ignore the Constitution in order
to create more crimes to prosecute. Freedom of religion, & thought in general, is so eagerly given up.

What bothers me is that people are willing to sit by while preachers of eternal torment continue to harrass people with these threats. A threat of physical violence is a threat of physical violence. It is illegal. Its only because it is done in the name of religion that people are willing to turn a blind eye to it.

Freedom of religion. Ok. So, where do you draw the line? Terrorists conspiring to kill others? Are you opposed to having them gather in groups and plotting to kill hundreds of innocents? If so, why? Why not support them too? After all, they are committing these crimes in the name of religion.

 

[Azekual]

Im not arguing just about children. I mean teaching it to anyone.

Let me get this straight. You are comparing the threat of violence against your soul via eternal torture in hell, and, say, being allowed to watch a horror movie? Is this what you are saying? :sarcastic

Violence. Movie. Violence. Movie. The law prohibits threatening people with violence.

Due to the fact the threat is religious in nature and there is no evidence admissible in court (because that is where this will inevitably end up) to support the threat of Hell OR its "detrimental" effect on the human psyche (which can be caused by any number of things), it will not pass for long before being overturned, if passed at all.

 

[839311]

OR its "detrimental" effect on the human psyche (which can be caused by any number of things), it will not pass for long before being overturned, if passed at all.

Do you know how easy it is to find people who will tell you how much damage this idea has caused them? I remember watching a program by Richard Dawkins who interviews a woman about this. Try that. Second, I believed in this concept myself, and I can tell you that horror movies pale in comparison to the thought of being tortured forever.

 

[Azekual]

Do you know how easy it is to find people who will tell you how much damage this idea has caused them? I remember watching a program by Richard Dawkins who interviews a woman about this. Try that. Second, I believed in this concept myself, and I can tell you that horror movies pale in comparison to the thought of being tortured forever.

Two words: First Amendment
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
If you prohibit the teaching of hell, especially within your own religion (which is who the kids are), you are in violation of the second clause. Hell is considered an integral part of Christianity, as it is the motivator for people to do good.

All the evidence in the world doesn't matter, it is nullified when in violation of the constitution

 

[839311]

Two words: First Amendment
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

Is it ok for religious people to murder others, and promote the murder of others because they believe God wants them to? Would you support their right to freely exercise their beliefs?

 

[LuisDantas]

The most frightening thing to me is how readily so many people want to ignore the Constitution in order
to create more crimes to prosecute. Freedom of religion, & thought in general, is so eagerly given up.

Does freedom of religion trump aggression and parental abuse then?

Thought is free. Behavior isn't. That is nothing new, nor unfair.

 

[839311]

Hell is considered an integral part of Christianity, as it is the motivator for people to do good.

I really hope you don't mean what you say here. Maybe you meant to say 'a motivator', and not 'the motivator'. I can only hope.

 

[Azekual]

Is it ok for religious people to murder others, and promote the murder of others because they believe God wants them to? Would you support their right to freely exercise their beliefs?

No I wouldn't and neither would the law. Murder has a direct and immediate effect on the victim and their loved ones, thus the first amendment does not protect that. Precedents for it have been established in court already.

 

[otokage007]

Teaching religions in schools as if they were true, should be a crime. I don't care if they teach about Hell or Heaven or whatever.

 

[Azekual]

Teaching religions in schools as if they were true, should be a crime. I don't care if they teach about Hell or Heaven or whatever.

I agree with two exceptions:

A) If it is a single class, they teach the 5 largest religions in the world, and treat them as if they are all true.

B) They make separate classes for each religion, with none of them being required to graduate

 

[Thief]

I voted no.

Discussion about hell is of course....emotional.
But it should be intellectual as well.

This was a rather lengthy thread.
And the poll shows a large margin...one and the other.

But do you really think man-made law should have control
over spiritual concepts?

I don't think so.

 

[Azekual]

I voted no.

Discussion about hell is of course....emotional.
But it should be intellectual as well.

This was a rather lengthy thread.
And the poll shows a large margin...one and the other.

But do you really think man-made law should have control
over spiritual concepts?

I don't think so.

Ah, we meet again Comrade

 

[wayward_teen]

Teaching religions in schools as if they were true, should be a crime. I don't care if they teach about Hell or Heaven or whatever.

I must suppose that you mean compulsory religion classes? I have taken several world religions classes throughout my schooling and thought they were fascinating. Unless the instructor of said class is proselytizing, I have no problem with people being told about major beliefs from around the world.
The first class I had, World Geography, was compulsory. It only had a month-long religion unit, and there was no getting out of it. We were tested on Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam and on Atheism, though there wasn't much presented material for that last one. In such an anti-Muslim area of the country, my teacher gave quite a passionate defense of Islam and the nearly 1.5 billion people that believe in it. I came away thinking it was a very positive experience.
All the other religious courses I've taken were optional. My atheist friend once said this:
"I so wish public schools would teach the Bible! The Old Testament is so eye-opening... If people were to read the absurd things that God commanded people to do in those times, there would be many less Christians in the world."
I don't know if that's true or not, but it would be so fascinating to try! Most religions teach that they contain the truth. Would it not be a misrepresentation to present them any other way?

I have no problem with religions being presented as true in public schools, as long schools are willing to teach truths in secularism, atheism and science. How can it hurt to present both sides?

 

[Yeshe Dawa]

Freedom of religion. Ok. So, where do you draw the line? Terrorists conspiring to kill others? Are you opposed to having them gather in groups and plotting to kill hundreds of innocents? If so, why? Why not support them too? After all, they are committing these crimes in the name of religion.

Hi 839311!

I think society has already drawn the line at physical action. We have laws against conspiracy to commit murder. It doesn't matter what the motive is - it's the conspiring that is the crime.

Peace and blessings,
Yeshe
:flower2:

 

[839311]

I think society has already drawn the line at physical action.

Does torture count?

We have laws against conspiracy to commit murder.

And we have laws against threatening others with violence.

It doesn't matter what the motive is

Good, we're in agreement. A broken law is a broken law.

it's the conspiring that is the crime.

And its the harrassing that is the crime.

 

[otokage007]

I have no problem with religions being presented as true in public schools, as long schools are willing to teach truths in secularism, atheism and science. How can it hurt to present both sides?

I must compliment your teachers for such a good classes. However, here in Spain and I think we are no exception, there's a lot of schools with a subject named "Religion", in which they teach you the catholic religion, and they never tell you that all the Bible sais isn't proved and therefore could be wrong. That's why I should ban that class. School is for academical education, not for teaching the guys about wizards and warlords.

 

[pwfaith]

Hi PWFaith!

I agree. Most religions teach that our actions resonate some type of effect in the spiritual realm, positive or negative. Many Buddhists believe there are hell worlds as well. It's only reasonable that parents will teach their children about their religion. I really don't see it as any different from teaching any other subject. Children learn history and that has some harsh concepts - but they are presented differently depending on the grade. I can't speak for everyone, but my personal experience is that this is typically how Christian sunday schools work as well.
There may be people who have had bad experiences, but that doesn't mean that we should start eroding religious freedoms.

Peace and blessings,
Yeshe
:flower2:

This was very well said. Thank you Yeshe!