Should The State Actively Let You Suicide?

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

State funded funeral or relatives sympathetic.

The state(ie 'the rest of us') should have 0 financial responsibility, nor anyone else unless they agree beforehand.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Yes, with the caveat of having their affairs in order. This would include prepaying for disposal of remains or burial. As long as they don't leave a mess or financial obligations who cares?

Do you think suicide should only be permitted for those who have the wealth to set their affairs in order; pay their debts etc?

 

[Rival]

The state(ie 'the rest of us') should have 0 financial responsibility, nor anyone else unless they agree beforehand.

Bit cold. It is my opinion that a suicide is partly society's fault. The dead person was clearly failed by those around him. They should pay.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Do you think suicide should only be permitted for those who have the wealth to set their affairs in order; pay their debts etc?

Yes

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Bit cold. It is my opinion that a suicide is partly society's fault. The dead person was clearly failed by those around him. They should pay.

I could not disagree more. If you do it, you own it. Society owes you nothing.

 

[Rival]

I could not disagree more. If you do it, you own it. Society owes you nothing.

Abused kids, bullied people, outcasts, the poor, all these people were put there by society. Their miseries were caused by other people and they have a very high suicide rate. You think society owes abused kids nothing?

 

[David1967]

I've always thought it was kind of a dumb law anyway. Has anyone ever actually been prosecuted and sentenced for attempting suicide? It would make as much sense as to impose the death penalty as punishment for a failed suicide attempt.

I remember a few years back, an inmate on death row attempted suicide a few days before he was scheduled to be executed. They took him to the hospital and made quite an effort to save his life, only to put him to death a few days later.

Silly isn't it. A double waste of our tax dollars.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Abused kids, bullied people, outcasts, the poor, all these people were put there by society. Their miseries were caused by other people and they have a very high suicide rate. You think society owes abused kids nothing?

Not really, no. It could be argued that the ones that abused them might owe them something, but nobody else.

The rest of your examples aren't really pity party material in my opinion.

 

[Callisto]

I mean rather than having to run in front of a truck or jump from a bridge, should the State provide a person who wishes to kill himself a safe and painless method of doing so? Assume this would apply to those 18+.

If someone is truly intent on suicide, they'll do it regardless of the law. There are numerous ways to exit without jumping in front of a truck or death by cop or any other cowardly, selfish way that leaves total strangers traumatized because the person didn't take the responsibility for doing themselves in.

I'm ok with physician-assisted suicide, which is legal in some states. I don't know about a blanketed "OK" for suicide though as it is possible for someone to hit a very low point where they feel everything is bleak but it really is not and if they weathered the matter they'd eventually come out OK and things would improve. That's different from someone who knows they've been handed a death sentence due to an irreversible/terminal situation. That's why I'm ok with physician-assisted, the person will have a greater likelihood of getting the help they need whether it's psychiatric or end of life. Another reason is because there have been many cases where someone seemed to be a suicide but then it turned out to be a well-staged murder. Think how many disgruntled spouses wanting a way out of paying alimony would suddenly have a spouse who was "so despondent" that s/he killed themselves before the divorce was final. Hmmmm.

 

[BSM1]

Bit cold. It is my opinion that a suicide is partly society's fault. The dead person was clearly failed by those around him. They should pay.

Abused kids, bullied people, outcasts, the poor, all these people were put there by society. Their miseries were caused by other people and they have a very high suicide rate. You think society owes abused kids nothing?

Check the back of your birth certificate. There is a list of what you are owed.

 

[Rival]

Check the back of your birth certificate. There is a list of what you are owed.

It is a cruel belief. We all need each other to help and to prosper. Individualism taken to stupid measures is undoable. It is a decidedly American capitalistic belief that we can all do well on our own. Other people do owe us. They owe us a nice environment, hospitals, libraries, schools and homes. If I see a person dying in the street, it's my duty to help him. It's human compassion.

 

[Rival]

If someone is truly intent on suicide, they'll do it regardless of the law. There are numerous ways to exit without jumping in front of a truck or death by cop or any other cowardly, selfish way that leaves total strangers traumatized because the person didn't take the responsibility for doing themselves in.

I'm ok with physician-assisted suicide, which is legal in some states. I don't know about a blanketed "OK" for suicide though as it is possible for someone to hit a very low point where they feel everything is bleak but it really is not and if they weathered the matter they'd eventually come out OK and things would improve. That's different from someone who knows they've been handed a death sentence due to an irreversible/terminal situation. That's why I'm ok with physician-assisted, the person will have a greater likelihood of getting the help they need whether it's psychiatric or end of life. Another reason is because there have been many cases where someone seemed to be a suicide but then it turned out to be a well-staged murder. Think how many disgruntled spouses wanting a way out of paying alimony would suddenly have a spouse who was "so despondent" that s/he killed themselves before the divorce was final. Hmmmm.

I'm not talking about the law.

I'm talking about the government giving someone, say a lethal injection, an easy and painfree way to commit suicide. A more dignified way than having to leap infront of a car.

So a person would come to a clinic, talk about his desire to die, his reasons etc, and if a therapist can be of no use and all options exhausted, the chemist or whoever can hand him a drug with which to kill himself.

 

[Nous]

Its true that often death appears one way one moment and another the next.

I wonder why surviving a suicide attempt makes such a difference? Suicides are rarely something done on a whim. I think it isn't unusual for people to contemplate suicide for years, and people often make elaborate plans, and change their plans.

I know someone who pointed a gun at their head, shot themselves and recovered. They could still read/write do their job and rear their children.

That's amazing. There is an actor that many of us would recognize, who shot himself in the head (I assume as a suicide attempt), and as far as I know he's still living. He was in a couple of episodes of Seinfeld.

There was a recent case of a robbery where someone shot the victim in the back of head; the person fell to the ground and was talking, saying something such as, "Mister, can you help me, I think I've been hit by something." The murderer shot him again.

 

[Callisto]

Bit cold. It is my opinion that a suicide is partly society's fault. The dead person was clearly failed by those around him. They should pay.

How so? At best, whether society somehow failed the person (e.g., wrongful conviction) is a per case basis, not an absolute. More people than not from disadvantaged situations don't consider suicide and there are people who seem to "have it all" who wind up just as despondent as anyone else and kill themselves.

 

[Nous]

Its against the law.

Most US states have repealed those laws that criminalized suicide.

 

[Nous]

Has anyone ever actually been prosecuted and sentenced for attempting suicide?

People who survived suicide attempts were arrested, charged and committed.

 

[Callisto]

I'm not talking about the law.

I'm talking about the government giving someone, say a lethal injection, an easy and painfree way to commit suicide. A more dignified way than having to leap infront of a car.

So a person would come to a clinic, talk about his desire to die, his reasons etc, and if a therapist can be of no use and all options exhausted, the chemist or whoever can hand him a drug with which to kill himself.

You are talking about the law, in order for clinics to legally provide assistance. That is what's meant by "physician-assisted suicide" (PAS) or "medical aid in dying" which already exists in 6 US states and about a handful of other countries.

But regardless of the law, people have been killing themselves for centuries, literally. If someone is intent on doing it, they'll find a way and, no, that doesn't have to include some selfish means like jumping in front of a vehicle. There are plenty of things to OD and, of course, less peaceful ways like self-hanging, or exsanguination or other self-inflicted wounds. Suicides happen regardless of the law. The question is whether society should acknowledge this and rethink what is the best, most ethical way to address the matter as it will never go away.

 

[Revoltingest]

I mean rather than having to run in front of a truck or jump from a bridge, should the State provide a person who wishes to kill himself a safe and painless method of doing so? Assume this would apply to those 18+.

I don't say the state should provide it,
but the state should not prevent it.

Btw, I like the Buttercup avatar!

 

[Rival]

How so? At best, whether society somehow failed the person (e.g., wrongful conviction) is a per case basis, not an absolute. More people than not from disadvantaged situations don't consider suicide and there are people who seem to "have it all" who wind up just as despondent as anyone else and kill themselves.

I see people generally as a part of a group not as an individual. It makes my view on state sponsored suicide a bit contradictory, but each member of society feeds into the happiness and wellbeing of others. We are social creatures who depends on other people for support, purpose, happiness.

 

[Rival]

You are talking about the law, in order for clinics to legally provide assistance. That is what's meant by "physician-assisted suicide" (PAS) or "medical aid in dying" which already exists in 6 US states and about a handful of other countries.

But regardless of the law, people have been killing themselves for centuries, literally. If someone is intent on doing it, they'll find a way and, no, that doesn't have to include some selfish means like jumping in front of a vehicle. There are plenty of things to OD and, of course, less peaceful ways like self-hanging, or exsanguination or other self-inflicted wounds. Suicides happen regardless of the law. The question is whether society should acknowledge this and rethink what is the best, most ethical way to address the matter as it will never go away.

No, I mean, suicide is legal but that's not enough. People should not be forced to jump off a bridge. They should be provided a sure, safe means with which to suicide. People shouldn't have to jump off a bridge.