Should Transgender Athletes compete in sports?

[Saint Frankenstein]

Can you just imagine men who want to pretend to be women running around the women's dressing rooms or women who want to pretend to be men running around the men's dressing rooms? Sexes should be separated based on the physical body they were born with. A 5 foot 2 inch man who wants to pretend to be a 6 foot 6 inch basketball player does not make it true and a man who wants to pretend to be a woman and play women's sports does not make it true.

Hateful garbage.

 

[Salvador]

Oh, boy. I'm sure this will be a fruitful thread. I do wish it was started by quoting medical professionals instead of far-right transphobic morons, though. We should do our best to minimize those voices.

Anyway, of course trans people should be allowed to compete in sports. They should compete in the sport of the gender they live as, as long as they are on hormone replacement therapy and it is in the normal range of their identified sex.

I'd likely bet the "transgender" athlete to defeat the naturally born female athlete, this would be as good as money in the bank.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'd likely bet the "transgender" athlete to defeat the naturally born female athlete, this would be as good as money in the bank.

I really wish you wouldn't reply to me with your nonsense. I'm quite fed up with you lately.

Most of what makes males generally physically stronger, faster with more endurance than most females is maintained by testosterone. Without that, they lose almost all their advantages and are even disadvantaged by some things. I have a trans woman friend who used to be a pretty built boxer who lifted weights and now she is both weaker and has less endurance than my fat, lazy self.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Hateful garbage.

Thanks for your opinion. I know I would not want my daughter sharing a locker room with a male who "feels like" a female. If there are separate locker rooms for the "gender different" then competing with them would not be a problem. I just draw the line at females and "wanna be" females changing clothes and showering together. If that is either hateful or garbage then too bad.

 

[Erebus]

Thanks for your opinion. I know I would not want my daughter sharing a locker room with a male who "feels like" a female. If there are separate locker rooms for the "gender different" then competing with them would not be a problem. I just draw the line at females and "wanna be" females changing clothes and showering together. If that is either hateful or garbage then too bad.

There we have it.

In your case at least, fairness in sport apparently isn't the issue you take with transgender people.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Thanks for your opinion. I know I would not want my daughter sharing a locker room with a male who "feels like" a female.

But you do want her to share a locker room with trans men?

If there are separate locker rooms for the "gender different" then competing with them would not be a problem. I just draw the line at females and "wanna be" females changing clothes and showering together. If that is either hateful or garbage then too bad.

I'm trying to decide whether you're suggesting that every athletic facility should have 4 changerooms, or if you're suggesting that trans athletes have no place in sport unless athletic facilities have 4 changerooms.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Thanks for your opinion. I know I would not want my daughter sharing a locker room with a male who "feels like" a female. If there are separate locker rooms for the "gender different" then competing with them would not be a problem. I just draw the line at females and "wanna be" females changing clothes and showering together. If that is either hateful or garbage then too bad.

So you'd be cool with your daughter sharing a locker room with this trans guy?

I'm sure she'd be happy to share a facility with him.

Anyway, it's offensive when people obsess over trans women and act like trans men don't exist. No, I will continue to use the men's facilities and I will not be segregated based on a medical condition I was born with. It's not contagious or life-threatening.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

But you do want her to share a locker room with trans men?


I'm trying to decide whether you're suggesting that every athletic facility should have 4 changerooms, or if you're suggesting that trans athletes have no place in sport unless athletic facilities have 4 changerooms.

OK I will use straight language. I think people with a penis should use the same locker room and people with vaginas should use the same locker rooms. I would prefer my daughter share a locker room with someone with a vagina who "feels like" a male

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

OK I will use straight language. I think people with a penis should use the same locker room and people with vaginas should use the same locker rooms. I would prefer my daughter share a locker room with someone with a vagina who "feels like" a male

Why are you so obsessed with genitals? Do you think penises just randomly attack people or something? Estrogen therapy causes erectile dysfunction and atrophy of the male genital tissue, so your argument is even dumber than you think. Plus, I've never heard of a trans woman disturbing cis women in the restroom or whatever. Go find me an example. But cis women have harassed and assaulted trans women in the ladies' room.

So maybe it's you bigoted hetero cis people who should be segregated and given the less convenient options since you insist on causing trouble for and mistreating the rest of us. We'll have LGBT restrooms and locker rooms for us and our allies only (friendly straights and cis people are allowed because we actually aren't afraid of those who are different). They will have the best features, be the most clean and have great lighting, too. Hetero cis people who aren't our allies will be relegated to facilities on par with a shabby gas station restroom and will be mocked and snared at. This will be the new normal. Let's see how you like it.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

So you'd be cool with your daughter sharing a locker room with this trans guy?

I'm sure she'd be happy to share a facility with him.

Anyway, it's offensive when people obsess over trans women and act like trans men don't exist. No, I will continue to use the men's facilities and I will not be segregated based on a medical condition I was born with. It's not contagious or life-threatening.

So your "medical condition" forced you to take hormones and grow a beard and dress in men's clothing. I hope they can find a cure.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So your "medical condition" forced you to take hormones and grow a beard and dress in men's clothing. I hope they can find a cure.

What you described is the treatment for transsexualism. It's the only course of action that is known to alleviate dysphoria and improves our lives. There is no "cure" as it's basically a congenital sex differentiation disorder and you'd have to change the brain, which isn't possible now. They should probably reclassify it as an intersex condition because it's looking like it might be one.

 

[InChrist]

There are those who don't feel it works...

 

[Unveiled Artist]

According to The Daily Signal which is a conservative journalist website, biological males who are transgender competing in women's sports create an unfair advantage for born females. Hormonal treatments aside, allowing transgender women who were born male, to compete in what they call "natural female" (I'm paraphrasing here) competition sets a precedent of creating an environment where there is backlash if transgender women become successful. Citing Martina Navratilova, the first openly gay female tennis player felt that any criticism of trans athletes competing would bully others into be silent. According to the article, "Navratilova bluntly called the practice of allowing biologically male athletes to compete in women’s sports “insane” and said “it’s cheating" (Source).

It would appear that the debate concerning trans athletes competing is not necessarily their identity per se rather its a question about fairness. According to Outsports.com:

"It’s easy to understand why. Sports rules and regulations exist to create a “fair” playing field for competitors. Olympic rules regulate the use of performance-enhancing drugs. NCAA rules tell teams how much they team can practice, and how often. NFL rules outline parameters to make sure a defensive back doesn’t get an “unfair” advantage over a receiver. Even mixed martial arts, which seems to the casual observer to be a clash of anarchy, has rules.

Without rules to govern fairness, we don’t have sports." -Source

The argument continues:

"In a world where we’re told that men are always more athletic, stronger and faster than women, that’s what they see. Someone perceived as being “once a man” can’t possibly be on an equal playing field with women. At least, that’s how the thinking of a lot of people goes.

Yet having an honest conversation about the fairness of trans women in sports mandates a conversation about the concept of fairness itself, and the different ways it can be applied to sports and life."

Thoughts?

I can't remember if I answered. I rarely get convos. I see it unrelated to gender. It's like militants who aren't scared of blowing people up but are uncomfortable with an openly gay man in their ranks.

If anything, it would have to do with the mindset and body strength for that sport. Trans women do wear pants and not all are flashy but it they are trained per their sport they at least need to be respected for their gender desire anything else.

We see women who have male characteristics but not transgender. She does her job. She's fit for it. Why would her gender matter on the sport she plays?

The problem is the bias involved with who should play sports and who shouldn't. Where does descrimination lie when a transgender person is told she can't play for reasons outside her gender (but in regards to her sex)?

Women can't go into the Navy seals. Men can. The confusion is gender references. Men's body and strength. Women by gender. It's not like bathrooms. What does one do?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I really wish you wouldn't reply to me with your nonsense. I'm quite fed up with you lately.

Most of what makes males generally physically stronger, faster with more endurance than most females is maintained by testosterone. Without that, they lose almost all their advantages and are even disadvantaged by some things. I have a trans woman friend who used to be a pretty built boxer who lifted weights and now she is both weaker and has less endurance than my fat, lazy self.

It should go off of physical and mental strength. How would gender references be used without confusing sex and gender. Education?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

OK I will use straight language. I think people with a penis should use the same locker room and people with vaginas should use the same locker rooms. I would prefer my daughter share a locker room with someone with a vagina who "feels like" a male

Makes more sense. How does one address someone who has medical gender dysphoria?

Looks aside, what about the medical confliction?

Is it just about sex. Where would someone intersex play in this? Gender aside, just the medical and body structure?

 

[Skwim]

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Gotta agree with lostwanderingsoul who said, "Sexes should be separated based on the physical body they were born with."


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[Saint Frankenstein]

There are those who don't feel it works...

"Ex-trans" are like "ex-gays". If you detransistion, you either don't actually have transsexualism or you're forcing yourself into the closet for social reasons.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

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Gotta agree with lostwanderingsoul who said, "Sexes should be separated based on the physical body they were born with."


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Ironic that you would side with a bigoted fundie in this instance when you are usually berating them for their lack of reason.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Do away with gender divisions entirely and divide sports into categories based on weight, height or muscle mass as required.

Now that would be unfair....

 

[Skwim]

Ironic that you would side with a bigoted fundie in this instance when you are usually berating them for their lack of reason.

When you're right you're right.

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