Should Trump Accept Defeat on The Wall Idea?

[Augustus]

So, the only reason to go through with it is for Trump to put his own political popularity ahead of common sense and what is good for Americans?

To play devil's advocate, why is a politician keeping a key campaign promises necessarily 'self-serving'? When politicians are routinely criticised for not doing what they committed to doing, can we also criticise them for sticking to their guns?

Whether you agree with the wall or not,t his was the platform he was elected on.

 

[Lyndon]

Its because it is likely Trump made up the whole wall, mexico pay for it scheme to get votes, and now that he is elected, its no longer so important

 

[Quetzal]

Practically ,yes as illegal crossings seem to be down. Giving border patrol more agents to cover the territory better would be more practical IMO. Politically, no. He ran his campaign on the idea of the wall. If he doesn't go through with it, it will be like George HW Bush saying "read my lips. No new taxes."

I think he is going to take a political hit regardless. I think investment in the way you talk about regarding border patrol (even the coast guard, come to think of it) more resources would be a better allocation of funds.

 

[Akivah]

Walls are very expensive and must be maintained and guarded constantly. So yeah. More Border Agents.

Since a wall is useless without having guards on it, let's just hire more guards and not build the wall.

 

[leibowde84]

Well, the whole idea of the "the wall" was mostly symbolic during the campaign, but the fact is, there already are barriers and walls along the border anyway. There have already been numerous measures to build better fences and barriers, as well as electronic surveillance and more Border Patrol agents out there.

But, this is just not true. Trump has stated over and over that the wall was not symbolic. He has promised repeatedly to build an actual brick and mortar wall.

 

[leibowde84]

To play devil's advocate, why is a politician keeping a key campaign promises necessarily 'self-serving'? When politicians are routinely criticised for not doing what they committed to doing, can we also criticise them for sticking to their guns?

Whether you agree with the wall or not,t his was the platform he was elected on.

I disagree. Most Trump supporters I have talked to think that the wall was meant to be a metaphorical/symbolic wall, which I have no problem with. An actual wall just wouldn't do any good. The cost would be enormous and the benefits would be miniscule.

 

[columbus]

But, this is just not true. Trump has stated over and over that the wall was not symbolic. He has promised repeatedly to build an actual brick and mortar wall.

And what got him into the POTUS was people who believed that sort of thing.
Pretending that Trump supporters generally saw his promises in this regard as some sort of symbol is carefully protected ignorance. Most of the ones I knew firmly believed that Trump tells it like it is. Not that The Wall was a symbol of some abstract concept.
Tom

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I don't think Trump ever thought a wall would actually get built. And, as long as they can present a narrative (true or not) that the population of illegal immigrants is falling, then there will be no political blowback from the wall-supporters and the other side will feel they achieved some kind of victory by not allowing a wall to be built.

Like so many aspects of this presidency, it could seem intentionally calculated or a haphazard mess, depending on how you look at it. Up to this point, a lot of it does seem to fall into a pattern of having a lot of room to move back from, in order to get what you really want. Could be a coincidence - I'm not convinced one way or the other at this point.

 

[Stevicus]

But, this is just not true. Trump has stated over and over that the wall was not symbolic. He has promised repeatedly to build an actual brick and mortar wall.

But a wall like that isn't really feasible, not all across the border. Perhaps in some spots it might be, but in areas with rough or mountainous terrain, I'm not sure. I've also read that they might run into eminent domain issues with a lot of border land owned privately. It just doesn't seem like a realistic proposal to me, not when taken literally.

 

[David1967]

But a wall like that isn't really feasible, not all across the border. Perhaps in some spots it might be, but in areas with rough or mountainous terrain, I'm not sure. I've also read that they might run into eminent domain issues with a lot of border land owned privately. It just doesn't seem like a realistic proposal to me, not when taken literally.

The eminent domain thing has come up and is a real concern for land owners. It will be interesting to see what comes of this.

 

[leibowde84]

But a wall like that isn't really feasible, not all across the border. Perhaps in some spots it might be, but in areas with rough or mountainous terrain, I'm not sure. I've also read that they might run into eminent domain issues with a lot of border land owned privately. It just doesn't seem like a realistic proposal to me, not when taken literally.

Exactly. Case and point as to why Trump was an idiot for pushing it. And, case and point for why those who bought it were pretty ignorant.

 

[columbus]

The eminent domain thing has come up and is a real concern for land owners. It will be interesting to see what comes of this.

There are far bigger problems with Trump's Wall.

Much of Wall Street's current success is based on cheap labor and large consumption. Getting rid of all those undocumented workers/consumers would wreak havoc on Wall Street and in board rooms across the country.
You really think cell phone companies don't care about how many people are buying their stuff? Gasoline stations? WalMart? Of course they do. And they can well afford to buy enough politicians to shut Trump down. So they will.
Tom

 

[leibowde84]

There are far bigger problems with Trump's Wall.

Much of Wall Street's current success is based on cheap labor and large consumption. Getting rid of all those undocumented workers/consumers would wreak havoc on Wall Street and in board rooms across the country.
You really think cell phone companies don't care about how many people are buying their stuff? Gasoline stations? WalMart? Of course they do. And they can well afford to buy enough politicians to shut Trump down. So they will.
Tom

Yeah, but the wall won't do anything about illegal immigrants who are already here.

 

[VioletVortex]

Trump's entire campaign pandered to idiots. No one can possibly believe that blowing the government's limited tax fund on a wall that probably won't even keep anyone out is more beneficial than spending the money on healthcare. The ideal thing to do would be to increase the military presence at the border. There is already a fence there. A wall will do no better. Did he really think that with a 15 percent business tax rate, he'd actually be able to build a unscalable wall across the entire border?

 

[metis]

So, should he just accept defeat and apologize, or should he keep on keeping on?

Trump admit defeat? Ain't gonna happen. But if he were smart , he should just move on without pushing that absurdity.

 

[columbus]

Yeah, but the wall won't do anything about illegal immigrants who are already here.

What does that have to do with anything? It never did address the people already here.

It's a boondoggle. It always was. And it worked.
Now Trump is better off hoping everyone forgets about it. And they might, USA voters have notoriously short attention spans and memories.
Tom

 

[averageJOE]

Trump admit defeat? Ain't gonna happen. But if he were smart , he should just move on without pushing that absurdity.

Actually, he'd be better off just to be himself in this situation. And that is to completely stop talking about it and when the press asks him he can just say "Wall? What wall? I never said anything about a wall."

 

[columbus]

Actually, he'd be better off just to be himself in this situation. And that is to completely stop talking about it and when the press asks him he can just say "Wall? What wall? I never said anything about a wall."

I don't think his supporters will let him. Ann Coulter is in full throat.

No politician wants to have to explain a vote against the wall. What the Democrats want is for Trump to be stuck explaining why he didn't build the wall.

Then it will be a bloodbath. Not only Trump, but also the entire GOP, is dead if he doesn't build a wall. Republicans will be wiped out in the midterms, Democrats will have a 300-seat House majority, and Trump will have to come up with an excuse for why he's not running for re-election.

April 26, 2017 - Not Building the Wall IS a Government Shutdown

Tom

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

I don't think Trump ever thought a wall would actually get built. And, as long as they can present a narrative (true or not) that the population of illegal immigrants is falling, then there will be no political blowback from the wall-supporters and the other side will feel they achieved some kind of victory by not allowing a wall to be built.

Like so many aspects of this presidency, it could seem intentionally calculated or a haphazard mess, depending on how you look at it. Up to this point, a lot of it does seem to fall into a pattern of having a lot of room to move back from, in order to get what you really want. Could be a coincidence - I'm not convinced one way or the other at this point.

I think Trump was totally serious about the wall, but over time, the burdensome realities that preclude its resurrection became more and more apparent. Were there revealed an inexpensive and clear-cut path to its creation available, I'd say he'd do it. Obviously, that's turning out not to be the case. But because he's so willing to explain away and minimize his failures, I doubt he was ever concerned about the probability of the wall actually being built. That said, it seems clear that the idea of The Wall was first and foremost a marketing tool designed to captivate voters, and boil down his immigration policy with extreme brevity.

 

[suncowiam]

And what got him into the POTUS was people who believed that sort of thing.
Pretending that Trump supporters generally saw his promises in this regard as some sort of symbol is carefully protected ignorance. Most of the ones I knew firmly believed that Trump tells it like it is. Not that The Wall was a symbol of some abstract concept.
Tom

I remember one CSI, @Neo Deist, telling everyone that it was an abstract suggestion.

Instead of admitting his folly, he just joined the conservative bandwagon and accepted the push for a real wall.

If CSI can be duped then boy are we in trouble.

LOL