Should Trump be given "slack" for not understanding politics?

[Quetzal]

Nah. Then again, I don't give president's much slack on principle. Too much responsibility and too much at stake to excuse major mistakes.

 

[columbus]

Which lies?

Which do you want to discuss?
How about the one he told when he first announced his candidacy? "I will release my tax returns before the election". He kept lying about them, promising to release them under different circumstances. Such as Obama proving that he'd been born in the USA.
How about that lie? The one about his only real credential for the office? That he is a brilliant businessman who understands economics.
But instead he kept the public from knowing what is in there because it wouldn't help him get power.
So he lied about it.
Tom

 

[Callisto]

It can be complicated.
Obama was ignorant of economics, but he needed no slack from his
fans because his every failure was simply pronounced a success.

So, are you saying Obama ending the 2008 recession was a failure? A recession that hadn't been seen since the Depression? But that’s a failure? Was the ARRA a failure too? Was lowering interest rates to stimulate business growth and facilitate housing recovery? Or the Consumer Financial Protection Agency? Dodd-Frank Act? What about the extension of Bush’s tax cuts and reducing payroll taxes and various tax exemptions?

Meanwhile, Trump thinks we lose at "trade deals" with China and thinks the GDP is "below zero", just to name a couple of things he fabricates on the fly. Not to mention his dine n' dash way of skipping out on debt when not declaring bankruptcies. The only thing Trump has ever correctly stated is that the economy often fares better under the Dems. (Hey, even a busted clock is right twice a day.)

Also:
Economic analysis under Rep vs Dem presidents

 

[Revoltingest]

So, are you saying Obama ending the 2008 recession was a failure?

He didn't end it.
He even hindered recovery in several ways.
I've covered the reasons before, & won't be repeating it.
(Prepping to leave on a long trip. Taking a break....exhausted moving heavy things in hot sun.)

A recession that hadn't been seen since the Depression?

We'd had recessions since the depression (of the 30s).

Btw, I've disagreements with Trump on economics too.
But his shortcomings don't exonerate Obama.

 

[Callisto]

He didn't end it.
He even hindered recovery in several ways.
I've covered the reasons before, & won't be repeating it.
(Prepping to leave on a long trip. Taking a break....exhausted moving heavy things in hot sun.)

Hindered? M'kay.

We'd had recessions since the depression (of the 30s).

Not what I said. Name another modern recession that has rivaled or surpassed the one of the 1930s.

Btw, I've disagreements with Trump on economics too. But his shortcomings don't exonerate Obama.

His failings in merely a little over 100 days only boosts Obama's competency in comparison.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Should trump be given slack?

No.

No president should be given any slack-- ever. The job is too important.

Ronnie Ray-Gun did not get nearly enough criticism for his many-MANY blunders. (for example)

 

[sun rise]

It can be complicated.
Obama was ignorant of economics, but he needed no slack from his
fans because his every failure was simply pronounced a success.

Utter and complete BS. There were a gazillion complaints from the left about his policies but I assume you were ignoring the media reports and not talking with real, fire-breathing liberals.

 

[Revoltingest]

His failings in merely a little over 100 days only boosts Obama's competency in comparison.

Since I judge by policy results rather personal traits & behavior,
it would make sense that I'd see Obama & Trump differently
from you. And on top of that, you & I might disagree about
which policies are good or bad.

 

[Revoltingest]

Utter and complete BS. There were a gazillion complaints from the left about his policies but I assume you were ignoring the media reports and not talking with real, fire-breathing liberals.

BS, eh?
Fido needs his mouth washed out with soap.
I never use the stuff...you can have mine.

Anyway, even now he's being given credit here for pulling us out of the recession.

 

[Callisto]

Since I judge by policy results rather personal traits & behavior,
it would make sense that I'd see Obama & Trump differently
from you. And on top of that, you & I might disagree about
which policies are good or bad.

Traits and behavior are not separate from the actions the person takes.

And your opinion regarding Trump's results guys far?

 

[Revoltingest]

Traits and behavior are not separate from the actions the person takes.

And your opinion regarding Trump's results guys far?

Trump has done little so far.
To early to opine about results.
To hard to predict the future.

 

[Sunstone]

About the easiest thing in the world to predict is that Trump doesn't have what it takes to be a great president, or even a good one. As for his being new to the job as an excuse for his behavior, that's like saying his not being qualified for the job is an excuse for his behavior.

 

[leibowde84]

About the easiest thing in the world to predict is that Trump doesn't have what it takes to be a great president, or even a good one. As for his being new to the job as an excuse for his behavior, that's like saying his not being qualified for the job is an excuse for his behavior.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Stevicus]

Common sense dictates that the FBI must be independent from the executive branch when the executive or his administration/campaign are under investigation though. So why should we let Trump off the hook for disregarding common sense and basic professional ethics?

I'm not saying we should let him off the hook. If he broke the law, then let him be judged. The FBI is a part of the executive branch already.

 

[leibowde84]

I'm not saying we should let him off the hook. If he broke the law, then let him be judged. The FBI is a part of the executive branch already.

All I'm saying is that it is ethically wrong (whether illegal or not) for Trump to even suggest that an investigation into his own staff be "let go". He shouldn't have met with Comey one on one either. If nothing else, it makes Trump look guilty.

 

[HonestJoe]

Is this an adequate excuse considering the fact that Trump has advisors, lawyers, his cabinet, etc. available to ask about his limitations as President?

I think that’s the key point. There’s nothing wrong with a new President (or any elected politician) not being aware of how everything works in the murky and messy world of government. Given how much we legitimately object to the dominance of career politicians, it could even be seen as a good thing. The problem with Trump is his apparent arrogant refusal to listen to and accept advice and guidance from those advisers and professionals and his determination to do and say whatever he wants regardless of anyone else. It’s that attitude that has led to so many of his current difficulties.

Incidentally, I also think there is a key difference here between “politics” and “government”. Trump clearly understand politics because he effectively and ruthlessly played that game to become President in the first place. Government is an almost entirely different prospect that I don’t believe he was in any way prepared for.

 

[leibowde84]

I think that’s the key point. There’s nothing wrong with a new President (or any elected politician) not being aware of how everything works in the murky and messy world of government. Given how much we legitimately object to the dominance of career politicians, it could even be seen as a good thing. The problem with Trump is his apparent arrogant refusal to listen to and accept advice and guidance from those advisers and professionals and his determination to do and say whatever he wants regardless of anyone else. It’s that attitude that has led to so many of his current difficulties.

Incidentally, I also think there is a key difference here between “politics” and “government”. Trump clearly understand politics because he effectively and ruthlessly played that game to become President in the first place. Government is an almost entirely different prospect that I don’t believe he was in any way prepared for.

Well put.

 

[BSM1]

All I'm saying is that it is ethically wrong (whether illegal or not) for Trump to even suggest that an investigation into his own staff be "let go". He shouldn't have met with Comey one on one either. If nothing else, it makes Trump look guilty.

Trouble is Trump didn't say that to Comey. Also, seeing how Comey worked at the pleasure of the President, Trump had every right and obligation to meet with this employee. I'm sure you can find a legitimate reason to hate Trump, but this is moot.

I think that’s the key point. There’s nothing wrong with a new President (or any elected politician) not being aware of how everything works in the murky and messy world of government. Given how much we legitimately object to the dominance of career politicians, it could even be seen as a good thing. The problem with Trump is his apparent arrogant refusal to listen to and accept advice and guidance from those advisers and professionals and his determination to do and say whatever he wants regardless of anyone else. It’s that attitude that has led to so many of his current difficulties.

Incidentally, I also think there is a key difference here between “politics” and “government”. Trump clearly understand politics because he effectively and ruthlessly played that game to become President in the first place. Government is an almost entirely different prospect that I don’t believe he was in any way prepared for.

I think you'll find that Trump listens to his advisors more than you give him credit for.

 

[leibowde84]

Trouble is Trump didn't say that to Comey. Also, seeing how Comey worked at the pleasure of the President, Trump had every right and obligation to meet with this employee. I'm sure you can find a legitimate reason to hate Trump, but this is moot.

Yeah he did. He said, "I hope you can see to letting this investigation of Flynn go". When your boss (as you say) says that, that is 100% pressuring Comey to let it go. Comey didn't let it go, and he got fired. Also, it is extremely inappropriate for the pres to meet with the FBI director 1 on 1 without the head of the justice department. That NEVER happens, and Comey made a great decision in creating those memos, as any reasonable person would have done the same thing. Trump has a reputation for bullying people into doing what he wants them to. And, that seems to be exactly what happened.

 

[BSM1]

Yeah he did. He said, "I hope you can see to letting this investigation of Flynn go". When your boss (as you say) says that, that is 100% pressuring Comey to let it go. Comey didn't let it go, and he got fired. Also, it is extremely inappropriate for the pres to meet with the FBI director 1 on 1 without the head of the justice department. That NEVER happens, and Comey made a great decision in creating those memos, as any reasonable person would have done the same thing. Trump has a reputation for bullying people into doing what he wants them to. And, that seems to be exactly what happened.

So you're saying the head of the FBI turned into a whimpering coward because Trump looked at him? You might want to go back and really listen to Comey's testimony.