Should we fear Islam?

[Fatihah]

Islam earns its own reputation. The atrocities its doctrines result in absolutely should be broadcast; it shows what such beliefs are capable of manifesting as, even when seemingly benign (as you yourself even hinted at: "Such propaganda can convince the muslims who are peaceful to perhaps reconsider...").

Response: Islam does earn it's own reputation, which is a religion peace, which is why it's called a religion of peace.

 

[sonofskeptish]

We should live our lives. Your paranoia of doing something is what caused the mess in the middle east we're in now.

Appeasment and lack of action is what allowed the nazis to sieze power. In your past anti-western posts, you have never mentioned paranoia as the cause of the "mess" in the middle east. You sound like a Republican... shifting your reason for invasion and wars, etc. based on whatever your arguing at the time.

 

[sonofskeptish]

Response: Islam does earn it's own reputation, which is a religion peace, which is why it's called a religion of peace.

You claim your version of Islam is peaceful, yet your "puritan" brothers show their version is not. You are in denial that your faith has been hijacked from within by extremists. Instead of blaming the West for all your problems... you should look in the mirror. Read books like the one mentioned in the OP to inform yourself as to what's happening in your religion. While Western agression in muslim "lands" where puritan Islam has a strong hold is certianly a factor, please explain how this contributes to the oppression of women under puritan Islam, and practices such as female genital mutilation.

 

[Fatihah]

You claim your version of Islam is peaceful, yet your "puritan" brothers show their version is not. You are in denial that your faith has been hijacked from within by extremists. Instead of blaming the West for all your problems... you should look in the mirror. Read books like the one mentioned in the OP to inform yourself as to what's happening in your religion. While Western agression in muslim "lands" where puritan Islam has a strong hold is certianly a factor, please explain how this contributes to the oppression of women under puritan Islam, and practices such as female genital mutilation.

Response: To the contrary, you are in denial of the fact that islam is a religion of peace. When you decide to actually read the qur'an and the sunnah with an open mind, instead of the media and the book in the OP, then you will see the truth that islam is a religion of peace, instead of blaming everything on islam.

 

[sonofskeptish]

Response: To the contrary, you are in denial of the fact that islam is a religion of peace. When you decide to actually read the qur'an and the sunnah with an open mind, instead of the media and the book in the OP, then you will see the truth that islam is a religion of peace, instead of blaming everything on islam.

I don't read ancient Arabic so I can't do that.

All I can do is look at claims by people like yourself that say your version of Islam is peaceful, and watch the actions of your puritan counterparts who make a good case that it is not.

Here's a question... do you think the Taliban are muslims? And if I asked them if you were, what do you think they'd say?

 

[Fatihah]

I don't read ancient Arabic so I can't do that.

All I can do is look at claims by people like yourself that say your version of Islam is peaceful, and watch the actions of your puritan counterparts who make a good case that it is not.

Here's a question... do you think the Taliban are muslims? And if I asked them if you were, what do you think they'd say?

Response: Then if you don't read ancient arabic, you can read it's translation. And since you don't read ancient arabic, and this is where the religion of islam is understood, then to say that "puritans" make good sense that islam is not peaceful makes no sense. After all, you don't read ancient arabic, so you can not make sense of anything unless you understand it first. This only shows that you judge an idea based on behavior, not the actual idea, which makes no sense. You are no different than a racist who judges all a race based on the behavior of the individuals of that race. Thus such a quality makes you against peace, not islam.

As for your question, I don't know the taliban, so I don't know what they will say.

 

[England my lionheart]

Personally i see no reason to fear Islam but i think both Muslims and Secularists should fear the Muslim Brotherhood who are Islamists,one of their Babies is Hamas but they have their finger in many Pies.

 

[Storm]

I think we should fear (or better yet, fight) extremists of all stripes.

However, I don't see any need to single out Islam. As I just said elsewhere, the peaceful calligrapher who never makes the news is just as representative of Islam as the fanatic who blows himself up in a public place.

That said, I also believe that the moderates of any given persuasion bear the lion's share of obligation to oppose the extremists. It's on the Muslims to reform Islam, the Christians to speak out against Fred Phelps and his ilk, and the voters to oppose American Imperialism. All outsiders can do is condemn or annihilate.

 

[JMorris]

I think we should fear (or better yet, fight) extremists of all stripes.

However, I don't see any need to single out Islam. As I just said elsewhere, the peaceful calligrapher who never makes the news is just as representative of Islam as the fanatic who blows himself up in a public place.

That said, I also believe that the moderates of any given persuasion bear the lion's share of obligation to oppose the extremists. It's on the Muslims to reform Islam, the Christians to speak out against Fred Phelps and his ilk, and the voters to oppose American Imperialism. All outsiders can do is condemn or annihilate.

well said

 

[Storm]

Thank you.

 

[challupa]

I think we should fear (or better yet, fight) extremists of all stripes.

However, I don't see any need to single out Islam. As I just said elsewhere, the peaceful calligrapher who never makes the news is just as representative of Islam as the fanatic who blows himself up in a public place.

That said, I also believe that the moderates of any given persuasion bear the lion's share of obligation to oppose the extremists. It's on the Muslims to reform Islam, the Christians to speak out against Fred Phelps and his ilk, and the voters to oppose American Imperialism. All outsiders can do is condemn or annihilate.

Yes, exactly. If the Taliban ever did rule the world, fear of them would be a justifiable reaction. However, we need to speak out against all extremists that have the potential to be harmful to humanity as a whole. As I said in an earlier post, it is not the peaceful in Islam or Christianity or Judaism or any other religion or secular group, it is the extremists that are bound and determined to make everyone "see things their way" and don't care how they achieve that goal.

 

[sonofskeptish]

Response: Then if you don't read ancient arabic, you can read it's translation. And since you don't read ancient arabic, and this is where the religion of islam is understood, then to say that "puritans" make good sense that islam is not peaceful makes no sense. After all, you don't read ancient arabic, so you can not make sense of anything unless you understand it first. This only shows that you judge an idea basex in behavior, not the actual idea, which makes no sense. You are no different than a racist who judges all a race based on the behavior of the individuals of that race. Thus such a quality makes you against peace, not islam.

As for your question, I don't know the taliban, so I don't know what they will say.

I've been careful to seperate Islamic "moderates" and Islamic "puritans", so I don't know how you can say I'm acting like a racist.

Asking the world to accept Islam as peaceful, would be like asking the world, in the midst of WWII, to accept that Germans are peaceful. Bottom line, during WWII some were not, and we saw what happened as a result.

Denying Islamic "puritans" are muslims is like denying that most SS Officers were German. I'm NOT saying there aren't good muslims and good germans, just that some are not.

So, are you seriously claiming that observing the actions of these "bad" Islamic "puritians" (extremists), and from those actions assuming that their version of Islam is not peaceful, is not a reasonable assumption? I could post some evidence if you'd like to go through it with me.

The point your missing is that both moderates and puritans are calling themselves muslims, and simply spouting off that Islam is peaceful will fall on deaf ears, while others are making a more compelling case it is not. I don't care that some are peaceful, I care that some are not.

I noticed you didn't answer the question "Do you think the Taliban are muslims?"... why is that?

I know it's upsetting and embarrassing to have a misbehaving brother, but to deny that he's not part of your family is exactly that... denial.

 

[LittleNipper]

I believe that Christian Fundamentalism has been benevolent toward people of various religious persuasions. And they promote open diologue by establishing an environment where fear of differences is not a reason to silence opposing views. In fact, secular education practices seem to be far more closed and exclusionary when held up against say, Fundamentalist Christian education.

 

[Skeptisch]

My point is not that religion itself is the motivation for wars, murders and terrorist attacks, but that religion is the principal label, and the most dangerous one, by which a "they" as opposed to a "we" can be identified at all.
-- Richard Dawkins, The Devil's Chaplain (2004)

 

[YmirGF]

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan rejected attempts to call Turkey the representative of moderate Islam.

"It is unacceptable for us to agree with such a definition. Turkey has never been a country to represent such a concept. Moreover, Islam cannot be classified as moderate or not," Erdoğan said, speaking at Oxford Centre for Islamic Studies late Thursday.

(linky)

“An Islamic regime must be serious in every field. There are no jokes in Islam. There is no humour in Islam. There is no fun in Islam.” - Ayatollah Khomeini

 

[JMorris]

I believe that Christian Fundamentalism has been benevolent toward people of various religious persuasions. And they promote open diologue by establishing an environment where fear of differences is not a reason to silence opposing views. In fact, secular education practices seem to be far more closed and exclusionary when held up against say, Fundamentalist Christian education.

:biglaughh deary me, what a wonderful day of jokes today is turning out to be

 

[Fatihah]

I've been careful to seperate Islamic "moderates" and Islamic "puritans", so I don't know how you can say I'm acting like a racist.

Asking the world to accept Islam as peaceful, would be like asking the world, in the midst of WWII, to accept that Germans are peaceful. Bottom line, during WWII some were not, and we saw what happened as a result.

Denying Islamic "puritans" are muslims is like denying that most SS Officers were German. I'm NOT saying there aren't good muslims and good germans, just that some are not.

So, are you seriously claiming that observing the actions of these "bad" Islamic "puritians" (extremists), and from those actions assuming that their version of Islam is not peaceful, is not a reasonable assumption? I could post some evidence if you'd like to go through it with me.

The point your missing is that both moderates and puritans are calling themselves muslims, and simply spouting off that Islam is peaceful will fall on deaf ears, while others are making a more compelling case it is not. I don't care that some are peaceful, I care that some are not.

I noticed you didn't answer the question "do you think the Taliban are muslims?"... why is that?

I know it's upsetting and embarrassing to have a misbehaving brother, but to deny that he's not part of your family is exactly that... denial.

Response: To the contrary, your analogy is not logical. Your analogy of World War II is asking the world to judge a people based on their actions, while your analogy of islam is judging an ideology based on people's actions. So they are not the same, and is a bad analogy.

So to judge an ideology based on people's actions is unreasonable. The fact that you would have to ask such a question is what you need to question. For how do you know if the behavior comes from the ideology without knowing what the ideology is? It is only reasonable to judge an ideology based on behavior if that behavior is the actual teaching of that ideology. You have not learned what the religion of islam is, so your judgement on behavior is very unreasonable. It would be as if I judged love based on abusive husbands. For many of them will tell you that despite their behavior, they do it out of love. So is it now reasonable to no longer love? Would you agree that love is not a good thing? No.Because his actions are not love. Love is defined as showing compassion to another. So if one behaves in a harmful way to another and say they do so out of love, you don't say that love is wrong, but rather there actions are not of love. Similarily, unless an extremist can show that islam teaches such extremism, then one should not attribute extremism to islam. That is the reasonable way to judge.

I am not embarrased by anyone's actions. I can only be embarrased of my own actions. Perhaps these are your brothers, since you tend to be so influenced by them. As for your taliban question, I did answer. My answer is I don't know the taliban, so I don't know what they will say.

 

[Ba'al]

Appeasment and lack of action is what allowed the nazis to sieze power.

There is so much wrong with that statement I don't even have time or the care to educate you on that subject.

In your past anti-western posts, you have never mentioned paranoia as the cause of the "mess" in the middle east. You sound like a Republican... shifting your reason for invasion and wars, etc. based on whatever your arguing at the time.

If you had read all my posts you would know I have, now you just sound more like a fool. As for the Republican remark, your ideology is far more republican than mine. You know, your posts make it quite obvious of your hatred of muslims and your ignorance of their religion. You read 1 book about Islam extremism and now you're an expert. Why don't you actually pick up a quran sometime and you won't spew so much hatred. Seriously, such a large portion of your posts are dedicated to branding Islam evil. Your silly excuse of not knowing arabic doesn't cut it as it can be read in any language.

 

[Skeptisch]

Why don't you actually pick up a quran sometime and you won't spew so much hatred.

Cruelty in the Quran

1. Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 2:6
2. Allah has sickened their hearts. A painful doom is theirs because they lie. 2:10
3. A fire has been prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 2:24
4. Disbelievers will be burned with fire. 2:39, 90
5. "Guard yourselves against a day when no soul will in aught avail another, nor will intercession be accepted from it, nor will compensation be received from it, nor will they be helped."
   There will come a day when Allah will refuse all prayers and help no one. 2:48
6. Allah brags about drowning the Egyptian army. 2:50
7. "Whosoever hath done evil and his sin surroundeth him; such are rightful owners of the Fire." 2:81
8. If you believe in only part of the Scripture, you will suffer in this life and go to hell in the next. 2:85
9. Jews are the greediest of all humankind. They'd like to live 1000 years. But they are going to hell. 2:96
10. For disbelievers is a painful doom. 2:104
11. For unbelievers: ignominy in this world, an awful doom in the next. 2:114
12. "And thou wilt not be asked about the owners of hell-fire." (They are the non-muslims.) 2:119

 

[Fatihah]

There is so much wrong with that statement I don't even have time or the care to educate you on that subject.



If you had read all my posts you would know I have, now you just sound more like a fool. As for the Republican remark, your ideology is far more republican than mine. You know, your posts make it quite obvious of your hatred of muslims and your ignorance of their religion. You read 1 book about Islam extremism and now you're an expert. Why don't you actually pick up a quran sometime and you won't spew so much hatred. Seriously, such a large portion of your posts are dedicated to branding Islam evil. Your silly excuse of not knowing arabic doesn't cut it as it can be read in any language.

Response: A very good point.