Show me the human...

[Mister Emu]

I'm not "romanticizing" anything. I'm making a distinction between pedophiles and child molesters/abusers, which aren't always the same thing.

That is exactly what "emotional and romantic attraction" talk about pedophiles is. Pedophiles aren't always abusers because some choose to be decent members of our species and understand that their desire isn't acceptable to be acted upon with a child.

Pedophilia is a sexual attraction to children(prepubescent). Child molestation is acting on the sexual attraction in a real and present manner. That is the distinction.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That is exactly what "emotional and romantic attraction" talk about pedophiles is. Pedophiles aren't always abusers because some choose to be decent members of our species and understand that their desire isn't acceptable to be acted upon with a child.

Pedophilia is a sexual attraction to children(prepubescent). Child molestation is acting on the sexual attraction in a real and present manner. That is the distinction.

All child molesters and abusers aren't pedophiles. Most aren't. Fred West, for example, raped women and girls of various ages, including his own daughters, but he was not a pedophile. Pedophilia is a sexual orientation which does include romantic and sexual attraction. Rapists and murderers like Fred West have a different psychology and do not abuse, torture and murder kids because they're attracted to them. They do it for power and control, same with all rapists.

 

[Estro Felino]

Pedophilia is a sexual attraction to children(prepubescent). Child molestation is acting on the sexual attraction in a real and present manner. That is the distinction.

all right...but there's something I don't understand.
how can a mature man (sexual being) be attracted to a prepubescent , who is by definition, asexual?

come on...it's not normal. It is not normal that they see in kids something which turns them on.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

all right...but there's something I don't understand.
how can a mature man (sexual being) be attracted to a prepubescent , who is by definition, asexual?

come on...it's not normal. It is not normal that they find something in children, which turns them on.

We don't know how people become attracted to anything. There's biological links, though. The brain structures of men who are pedophiles are different from the brain structures of those who aren't.

 

[Bunyip]

All child molesters and abusers aren't pedophiles. Most aren't. Fred West, for example, raped women and girls of various ages, including his own daughters, but he was not a pedophile. Pedophilia is a sexual orientation which does include romantic and sexual attraction. Rapists and murderers like Fred West have a different psychology and do not abuse, torture and murder kids because they're attracted to them. They do it for power and control, same with all rapists.

I can't see how any of what you have said could be interpreted as excusing or romantisising paedophiles.

 

[oldbadger]

Pedophilia is a sexual attraction to children(prepubescent). Child molestation is acting on the sexual attraction in a real and present manner. That is the distinction.

Whilst all the above is correct, the public don't care about the niceties of the various words. As far as 'the public' is concerned, a paedophile is a person who has sex with children, is dangerous to children, and who needs to be discovered and punished..... and stopped.

Take your word 'prepubescent'. As far as the Brit public is concerned, a person who has sexual contact with a child of 13 yrs (or even 12 yrs) is a paederast...... your academic approach cannot make any difference now to how the public views paedophilia and paedophiles.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Guys, I think we're skipping important links here. I believe, which I see fair, that important laws/punishments should be known to all first. People should be educated and aware of it. Where I live, and since we follow Islam as a law, we are taught about crimes and their punishments. I for one am sure would have committed some crimes if I was not taught and aware about it. Yeah, I was tempted to steel and drink alcohol more than once.

Wait, easy on me, I'm saying "educated and aware of it", I'm not saying scare the mass with it I as a kid when I was taught that drinking alcohol is punished with 100 lashes, I was not scared at all being the child I was. The reason was the proper way of education and awareness I had. And no, not because I was tough. I was a scardy cat actually (and still am btw).

I believe if rapists know what punishment awaits them, it would be fare to at least put them to face, and I don't say condemned for now, judgement with those punishments in mind once they commit the crime. That would mean they agreed on the terms that if they did something, the result will be awaiting them. It is not like people would have no choice but to rape! The will have chosen it. Lets think of it and apply it on ourselves. In a case scenario, we are told and educated that slapping one on the face in a non defensive act is a crime that's punishable with one month imprisonment. We commit that crime and called to the court, asked whither we knew what crime we committed and what its punishment is and think yes. I believe any person would think then that they are guilty and deserved it, and that we were warned.

Maybe some of you will say that what if the rapist didn't know it is a punishable crime? Well, in this day, do you think anyone would not really know it is? I don't think so.

 

[Buttercup]

That is exactly what "emotional and romantic attraction" talk about pedophiles is. Pedophiles aren't always abusers because some choose to be decent members of our species and understand that their desire isn't acceptable to be acted upon with a child.

Pedophilia is a sexual attraction to children(prepubescent). Child molestation is acting on the sexual attraction in a real and present manner. That is the distinction.

I think we pretty much agreed on this difference between the two terms a few pages back. However, I don't think I would agree totally with the statement that pedophiles choose to be "decent members of our society". It's highly likely that while some pedophiles may never touch a child physically, they view what is considered child erotica or child porn online or through other sources.

It's hard to know exactly how pedophiles get their sexual satisfaction other than from what they can conjure up in their imaginations. My guess, though, is that sometime during their lives they view images that propagate and encourage harm to children. This is exactly the reason child porn and some child erotica is illegal.

 

[Mister Emu]

All child molesters and abusers aren't pedophiles. Most aren't... Pedophilia is a sexual orientation which does include romantic and sexual attraction. Rapists and murderers like Fred West have a different psychology and do not abuse, torture and murder kids because they're attracted to them. They do it for power and control, same with all rapists.

For the most part, yes child molesters are pedophiles... read the literature. A report from the Mayo Clinic for instance states that 95% of abuse against children is accounted for by the 88% of child molesters who meet the diagnostic standards for pedophilia.

Rapists do have their own psychology, but that is separate from orientation, fetish, or comorbid pathology like pedophilia.

all right...but there's something I don't understand.
how can a mature man (sexual being) be attracted to a prepubescent , who is by definition, asexual?

It is a disorder of the mind. Specifically, in answer to your question they delude themselves into believing that children are sexual beings.

I can't see how any of what you have said could be interpreted as excusing or romantisising paedophiles.

I certainly never said there was excusing... I did warn against letting pedophiles romanticize their mental disorder. Which, again, is exactly what pedophiles do. They concoct strong cognitive distortions about love and connection to defend and justify their sexual desire towards children. You can no more trust a pedophile talking about loving children than a sociopath trying to get parole.

your academic approach cannot make any difference now to how the public views paedophilia and paedophiles.

Well... I am an academic, and this, psychology, is my field. So... pedophilia, hebephilia, ephebophilia, child molestation, and statutory rape are all distinct phenomenon.

I think we pretty much agreed on this difference between the two terms a few pages back.

I saw... I discovered after I had posted that there were several pages I hadn't read... mea culpa. I will put a little blame on the system, as it hid the extra page icons in the forum listing.

However, I don't think I would agree totally with the statement that pedophiles choose to be "decent members of our society". It's highly likely that while some pedophiles may never touch a child physically, they view what is considered child erotica or child porn online or through other sources.

I think it entirely untoward to assume that someone has committed a crime merely based on their unsavoury predilections.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

For the most part, yes child molesters are pedophiles... read the literature. A report from the Mayo Clinic for instance states that 95% of abuse against children is accounted for by the 88% of child molesters who meet the diagnostic standards for pedophilia.

Rapists do have their own psychology, but that is separate from orientation, fetish, or comorbid pathology like pedophilia.

Do you have a link? The literature I've read says that a minority or about half of child molesters are pedophiles.

 

[Mister Emu]

Do you have a link? The literature I've read says that a minority or about half of child molesters are pedophiles.

An estimated 88% of child molesters and 95% of molestations (one person, multiple acts) are committed by individuals who now or in the future will also meet criteria for pedophilia

Hall, R. W., & Hall, R. W. (2007). A profile of pedophilia: definition, characteristics of offenders, recidivism, treatment outcomes, and forensic issues. Mayo Clinic Proceedings, 82(4), 458.

 

[Faybull]

Let me interject this little tidbit. Many prison inmates have children. Many severely do not like the idea of child molesters being in with them. Giving child molesters the death penalty gives them an "out" for the often permanent psychological damage they have inflicted upon a child. Life imprisonment in gen pop...that will be a constant punishment. Once it becomes common knowledge amongst the other inmates what the person is in for...their life in prison is never pretty. Just saying.

In Arizona, they are segregated from the general population. Otherwise they would be killed.

 

[oldbadger]

Well... I am an academic, and this, psychology, is my field. So... pedophilia, hebephilia, ephebophilia, child molestation, and statutory rape are all distinct phenomenon.

I understand, and I acknowledge what you have told me, that you are specialised in the field of psychology.
To you the above actions, conditions and mindsets are phenomenon, but your exactness about paedophilia being a sexual attraction to prepubescent children has been surpassed (ignored) by the people, the legislators, mostly everybody. In England a sexual attraction to a 15 year old is paedophilia. I empathise with you about how the public take perfect detail and mash it to pieces. I taught commercial detection for decades and I used to be constantly exasperated by lay-rubbish that my students' heads had been filled with.
But........ until you can make a significant difference within our communities I don't think that you can win through ..... as far as educating needful groups and an angry public are concerned.

But I do understand how complex paedophilia can be. I once detained a man in his fifties (Margate 1991) who the police arrested soon afterwards. He was a paedophile (his interest was in prepubescent males) and as I asked him for information that I required, waiting for the police to attend, it became obvious that his mental age was that of a very young boy. Ergo..... the mind was not a wicked mind, and his actions, such as comparing 'winkles' etc..... were infantile.

etc etc....... but psychology has to turn its knowledge to procure benefits to the community about this, or it won't get attention. I think psychiatry has more chance because more of the answers may lie with prescription, meds, operations etc etc. Obviously counselling, psychotherapy, etc do have a very important part to play.
I look forward to any advances that there may be.