Sight

[FFH]

So, being blind to the world would ultimatley bring you to seeing the light?
What do you think Yeshua is trying to say?
What does going blind imply?

Blindness represents humility, or submissiveness, to God.

When you humble yourself, or are humbled, because of some physical impairment, you begin to "see" what is really important. This life is nothing, and is only a test to see what choices we will make, under any given circumstances.

Those who have physical impairments are very blessed people. They are humbled, because of their circumstances, and they "see" what is truly important. They will be a part of the Kingdom of Heaven.

It is harder for us to "see" what is important unless we humble ourselves, or are humbled by adversity, such as blindness.

We have a choice to humble ourselves, or be humbled, as in the case of Paul. He did not humble himself, so God humbled him, and then through Paul's blindness he humbled himself, and submitted to God. Paul could have chosen to get angry at God for his blindness, but instead he chose to worship God, and submit to him. Paul made the right choice. Through his blindness he was able to "see" his evilness, and he humbled himself and repented of his sins.

Paul's blindness was taken away, or healed, because he humbled, or submitted himself, towards God, and God restored his sight. It is a lesson in humility, and submissiveness, towards God, whom we are all dependent on, for our very existence.

 

[FFH]

Those who have physical impairments are very blessed people. They are humbled, because of their circumstances, and they "see" what is truly important. They will be a part of the Kingdom of Heaven.

The poor, the halt, the lame, and the blind, will be among all those that will be a part of the kingdom of God, because they have been sufficiently humbled, because of their circumstances. They are not evil or cursed, but are extremely blessed, because of their circumstances. They truly "see" the big picture. They focus on eternity, and can "see" a day when they will be free from their afflictions.

Through my poverty and other afflictions I can "see" more clearly into eternity. I do not put my trust in this life, or the things I can "gain" in this life. God has truly broken my life, and has allowed me to "see" into the eternities.

 

[Quiddity]

Ok I get it now...
No*s said if lovely: Spiritual sight is a product of the heart.

 

[FFH]

When we experience physical afflictions, we begin to put less emphasis on the physical senses and start to draw on spiritual senses to comfort our physical body. We begin to see and feel things using our spiritual senses, or our spirit being.

When a person is blind physically, I think that person begins to "see", using his spiritual senses. They begin to function, more and more, by using their spiritual senses. Being blind, it think, forces you to look inward. You begin to draw upon the senses of your spirit being, which dwells inside you, and gives your physical body it's life. You begin to almost "see" things with your mind. Your inner spirit being, begins to come alive, and you begin to "see", using your spirit being. You begin to "see" and "hear" spiritual things. God helps you to "see" more clearly.

I think the same can be said of the hearing impaired. They begin to "hear" with their spirit being. They begin to "hear" the things that God is trying to whisper to them.

With the sight impaired it is the same thing. They begin to "see" with their spirit being. They begin to "see" the things that God is trying to show them.

 

[FFH]

One day while working at a pizza restaurant, a fairly large group of hearing impaired children, around the ages of 7 to 9, came into the restaurant that I was managing. They began to relay to the adults, that had accompanied them, their desires for different kinds of pizzas. It was a finger frenzie. I began to think of the many large groups of children that had come into the restaurant, in the past, and how incredibly noisy and hectic it got. This experience was totally opposite of that. These kids were well behaved, and there was nothing but silence, and fast flying fingers. I began to feel an extreme love come over me. It was an extremely pure love that I don't think I had really ever felt that strongly before. I have never felt a feeling of such extreme pure love come over me before, or since then. It seemed to be surrounding, and enveloping, these children, especially when they were all together in a large group. They were truly children of God, and were special to God. He loved them, and God's love radiated out from them, so strongly that it overcame me, and enveloped my being, without any effort on my part. I did not want that feeling to end. As soon as they finished ordering and went into our party room, that spirit of love seemed to leave too. It seemed to follow them wherever they went. I had been given a taste of God's love, which exuded through them, and from them. I had been given a taste of what it would be like to be in a place where that love could be felt. I felt like I had been given a "glimpse" of heaven. I could "see" and feel what heaven might be like.

These children were not cursed at all, as some would tend to believe because they were born with a hearing impairment, but were extremely blessed by God, and were enveloped by, and exuded God's love wherever they went. They were innocent and full of God's pure love.

I think the reason they were so full of God's love is because they were more in tune with God, and could here his voice, very clearly, through their spiritual ears, which had been developed because of the lack of physical hearing.

Through "silence" the hearing impaired are able to "hear", just as through "darkness" the sight impaired are able to "see".

The hearing impaired learn to rely on, or focus on, developing their spiritual ears, because they have no physical hearing. This results in them being able to "hear" the voice of God with their spiritual ears, which are a part of our spirit being, which dwells in us and gives our bodies life.

We need to rely on, or develope our spiritual eyes and ears so that we will be able to "see" and "hear" more clearly. God can only reach us through these spiritual senses. He speeks to our spirit being and shows us the right way to go. If we shut that part of our being down we will be in "darkness" and God will seem to be "silent" towards us. We will not be able to "hear" God or "see" his plan for our lives.

 

[No*s]

I agree that it is a change of heart that brings one to the light.
If no one could see, what would they have to be bitter about? No one would be above anyone else.
Not to say that blinding everyone would change their hearts, but maybe it would help alter their focus a bit....maybe?


This is very true. Of course not everyone would change thier hearts as a result of being blind... but, as i've said, it COULD change perspective.
What most people have said is true as well, we dont have to be physically blind to see truth, light, the inner...

I think of Oedipus Rex when I think of this subject... Sophocles wrote a story about fate, and how, by running from fate, we usually find ourselves in it! Ironic! (irony excites me...) In the end Oedipus realized that he had done everything JUST as the prophecy said he would, while he was trying to avoid it. He then gouged his eyes out. When he could see, he was blind, but when he was blind, he saw.

Yes it can, but it also often doesn't. I've seen both types. It's a purely individual affair and how they respond to stimuli. Sadly, I've seen people become more vulgar and rude on account of losing a sense, and it often seems to me that this is the result if anything happens (I've seen it a few times, and while not universal, it does seem to be the trend).

 

[Buttons*]

Yes it can, but it also often doesn't. I've seen both types. It's a purely individual affair and how they respond to stimuli. Sadly, I've seen people become more vulgar and rude on account of losing a sense, and it often seems to me that this is the result if anything happens (I've seen it a few times, and while not universal, it does seem to be the trend).

well, what if we were all just born blind?

 

[Buttons*]

Blindness represents humility, or submissiveness, to God.

When you humble yourself, or are humbled, because of some physical impairment, you begin to "see" what is really important. This life is nothing, and is only a test to see what choices we will make, under any given circumstances.

Those who have physical impairments are very blessed people. They are humbled, because of their circumstances, and they "see" what is truly important. They will be a part of the Kingdom of Heaven.

that's certianly one way to look at it

It is harder for us to "see" what is important unless we humble ourselves, or are humbled by adversity, such as blindness.

how do you think we should do this?

We have a choice to humble ourselves, or be humbled, as in the case of Paul. He did not humble himself, so God humbled him, and then through Paul's blindness he humbled himself, and submitted to God. Paul could have chosen to get angry at God for his blindness, but instead he chose to worship God, and submit to him. Paul made the right choice. Through his blindness he was able to "see" his evilness, and he humbled himself and repented of his sins.

You have much Zeal in your convictions.

 

[Buttons*]

The poor, the halt, the lame, and the blind, will be among all those that will be a part of the kingdom of God, because they have been sufficiently humbled, because of their circumstances. They are not evil or cursed, but are extremely blessed, because of their circumstances. They truly "see" the big picture. They focus on eternity, and can "see" a day when they will be free from their afflictions.

How do you know what other people feel, or if they truly have a focus on God? I'm sure there are plenty of disabled atheists out there.

Through my poverty and other afflictions I can "see" more clearly into eternity. I do not put my trust in this life, or the things I can "gain" in this life. God has truly broken my life, and has allowed me to "see" into the eternities.

i'm happy for you

 

[Buttons*]

When we experience physical afflictions, we begin to put less emphasis on the physical senses and start to draw on spiritual senses to comfort our physical body. We begin to see and feel things using our spiritual senses, or our spirit being.

When a person is blind physically, I think that person begins to "see", using his spiritual senses. They begin to function, more and more, by using their spiritual senses. Being blind, it think, forces you to look inward. You begin to draw upon the senses of your spirit being, which dwells inside you, and gives your physical body it's life. You begin to almost "see" things with your mind. Your inner spirit being, begins to come alive, and you begin to "see", using your spirit being. You begin to "see" and "hear" spiritual things. God helps you to "see" more clearly.

I think the same can be said of the hearing impaired. They begin to "hear" with their spirit being. They begin to "hear" the things that God is trying to whisper to them.

With the sight impaired it is the same thing. They begin to "see" with their spirit being. They begin to "see" the things that God is trying to show them.

this is kind of what i was getting at....

 

[Buttons*]

we can look without seeing,
and hear without listening,
and touch without feeling,
maybe its time to get in touch with our senses.
Or maybe we need to lose our senses in order to really see, listen, and feel them.

 

[No*s]

well, what if we were all just born blind?

Then we would simply be used to the condition. I firmly believe that man had spiritual senses that used to help us perceive the world, and that on a few occasions these can resurface. By and large, though, we live our lives without any conscious awareness of this.

 

[Buttons*]

Then we would simply be used to the condition. I firmly believe that man had spiritual senses that used to help us perceive the world, and that on a few occasions these can resurface. By and large, though, we live our lives without any conscious awareness of this.

How can we get more in touch with it?
We have the abrahamic God, the Tao... what else?
Why aren't people searching for the truth behind the veil?

 

[No*s]

How can we get more in touch with it?
We have the abrahamic God, the Tao... what else?
Why aren't people searching for the truth behind the veil?

IMO, one must learn at the feet of the Body. We must deny ourselves (it is not an easy thing to attain), take the sacraments, and adopt the lifestyle from a master that the Church has handed down. It is a difficult lifelong process to undo the damage of estrangement from God, and the demons always offer to deceive us along the way. Truth, after all, is a person.

These are all my beliefs, and I know that most people would disagree with me (if they didn't they'd be Orthdoox lol).

 

[Buttons*]

IMO, one must learn at the feet of the Body. We must deny ourselves (it is not an easy thing to attain), take the sacraments, and adopt the lifestyle from a master that the Church has handed down. It is a difficult lifelong process to undo the damage of estrangement from God, and the demons always offer to deceive us along the way. Truth, after all, is a person.

These are all my beliefs, and I know that most people would disagree with me (if they didn't they'd be Orthdoox lol).

well, ideas are all i'm looking for, thanks for the input!

 

[Buttons*]

I dont think we should take things at face value. I've always been taught to look deeper, closer, find what things are, and why they are they way they are.

I think we have the potential to see beyond ourselves to the Good. (however you want to translate good, by my guest)
...just thought i'd share....

 

[Buttons*]

(In a non-spiritual sense) I'm sure that people who are blind experience the world in ways which people who can see do not (that is quite obvious, but you could interpret that as "seeing" the world differently). Also, if you were able to see and you were made blind, you would probably not take things for granted like people who can see take things for granted. (Again, not sure how that you could interpret that as "seeing", but just a thought.)

As I said before, I'm only looking for different interpretations.
What if people were just born blind?
We couldn't depend on sight, we'd have to depend on our thoughts and other senses wouldnt we?

 

[1nharmony]

Do you think that if people were blind, we could truly see?

If all people were BORN blind, and none had ever experienced sight, vision would be a completely unknown concept. The other senses would naturally be more highly developed, however, I think that chances are we would NOT be the dominant species on this planet. Our existence would be primarily focused on survival.

If people couldn't see, what would they talk about? Of course, they would talk about what they hear, touch or smell. Our concepts and cultures originate at the base level of sensory input. From there our incredible human brains begin analyzing and storing memories. How different would the evolution of homo sapiens have been without, arguably, the most important of the five senses? Would we still develop the concept of a "god" without the benefit of sight?

There's probably a whole new thread/debate in that question.

 

[Buttons*]

If all people were BORN blind, and none had ever experienced sight, vision would be a completely unknown concept. The other senses would naturally be more highly developed, however, I think that chances are we would NOT be the dominant species on this planet. Our existence would be primarily focused on survival.

This is true, so do you think it would help put us into perspective to see ourselves as blind at times?

If people couldn't see, what would they talk about? Of course, they would talk about what they hear, touch or smell. Our concepts and cultures originate at the base level of sensory input. From there our incredible human brains begin analyzing and storing memories. How different would the evolution of homo sapiens have been without, arguably, the most important of the five senses? Would we still develop the concept of a "god" without the benefit of sight?

I really like where you're going with this.... What do you think?

There's probably a whole new thread/debate in that question.

No, but i think it's a good point of discussion in this thread. I asked about all aspects of sight. So please, continue! *smiles*

 

[1nharmony]

If all people were BORN blind, and none had ever experienced sight, vision would be a completely unknown concept. The other senses would naturally be more highly developed, however, I think that chances are we would NOT be the dominant species on this planet. Our existence would be primarily focused on survival.

This is true, so do you think it would help put us into perspective to see ourselves as blind at times?

That's difficult because one must have the experience of being blind in order to have an accurate perspective of it. After 48 years of a sighted existence I can only imagine a life of blindness. Of course, I could delve into the experience by temporarily removing my sight by artificial means which could at least provide a better perspective. It is still a limited perspective, though, since even when I close my eyes my mind fills with images I am familiar with as a sighted person. I do think that greater empathy in the world would lead to greater peace. Empathy requires placing equal or greater importance on others than upon oneself, and viewing other experiences and perspectives to be equally as valid as our own. Anything that can create empathy is a valuable tool in this war-torn world.

If people couldn't see, what would they talk about? Of course, they would talk about what they hear, touch or smell. Our concepts and cultures originate at the base level of sensory input. From there our incredible human brains begin analyzing and storing memories. How different would the evolution of homo sapiens have been without, arguably, the most important of the five senses? Would we still develop the concept of a "god" without the benefit of sight? There's probably a whole new thread/debate in that question.

I really like where you're going with this.... What do you think?......i think it's a good point of discussion in this thread. I asked about all aspects of sight. So please, continue! *smiles*

Alright, since you insist. ;-)
I suppose the first thing one must debate is to what extent our sense of sight is incorporated into our concept of God. In my opinion it is an extremely extensive element. It seems to me that visual stimulus is the primary factor in the development of our thoughts and ideas. This is not to say that thoughts and ideas would not occur in the absense of sight, of course, but that the sense of sight overwhelms the others so dominantly that the input from our other four senses is minor in comparison.

The next question has to be whether "god" reveals itself to man in some way (as most religions assert) or has man "created" god out of some deep instinctual need to explain his own surroundings and existence? If one assumes the former, then no further debate is required since we would also assume that, no matter the condition of man, "god" would reveal itself in some way. So to debate the importance of sight as an element in our concept of god, let's assume the latter.

If the concept of god grew out of man's physical existence and experience on this planet, then two questions follow. Would the concept have developed at all in the absence of sight and, if so, how would it differ? Obviously, the most qualified to answer these queries would be the community of blind people in our world. Absent this input, we must depend upon our own imaginations which, as pointed out earlier, is highly tainted by a lifetime of visual images stored in there. But I'll give it a shot. (No pun intended, Mr. Cheney.)

If you could create an identical planet Earth populated by humans without visual abilities (with that being the single, isolated difference in the thousands, millions or billions of years of man's evolution) I think it would be unrecognizable by us today. Obvious differences would be the lack of cars, highways and oil rigs that we depend on for our mobility today. Quite honestly, the differences would be so staggering that I am having a rough time even imaging what life would be like under this condition of sightlessness. So instead, I'm going to focus on the ways my sight influences my concept of the existence of a god.

Today, there is so much printed matter available that one's spiritual path may be diverted in any number of directions during a lifetime. (This is true, at least, here in America; certainly it is less so in other parts of the world.) So reading is one of our visual sources of input. Images are another big influence, however, an association must be created in order for the image to have a religious meaning. A cross can have a very meaningful impact or it can just be the letter "t". It all depends on the association you assign to it. How about "miraculous" healings? Once again, there is a visual event which we find the need to explain. Why assign an explanation such as "it was an answer to prayer" rather than any other equally valid possibility such as "an unknown bio-kinetic immune system response occured, thereby eliminating the disease". It's not so much that we need to know why things are the way they are, but more of a need to explain why things happen. So without a sense of sight, would we still have a need to explain events that we cannot see? Well, I tend to think yes. Because we would still have human hearts and emotions, we would still care about each other. I think we would still desire to ease the pain and suffering of our fellow man. I think questions would still arise such as "Why did he get sick? ...and... Why was she injured? ...and... Why did the baby have to die?" And so I think we would still develop the need for spiritual salve of some kind to ease our aching hearts. And out of that comes the concept of a Greater Being; hopefully one that has our better well-being at heart.