Sight

[Buttons*]

That's difficult because one must have the experience of being blind in order to have an accurate perspective of it. After 48 years of a sighted existence I can only imagine a life of blindness. Of course, I could delve into the experience by temporarily removing my sight by artificial means which could at least provide a better perspective. It is still a limited perspective, though, since even when I close my eyes my mind fills with images I am familiar with as a sighted person. I do think that greater empathy in the world would lead to greater peace. Empathy requires placing equal or greater importance on others than upon oneself, and viewing other experiences and perspectives to be equally as valid as our own. Anything that can create empathy is a valuable tool in this war-torn world.

Yes, being blind would cause us to depend on one another more and thereby giving others more importance by reliance. But I also agree that if we were all blind, we would have to "see" the inside of a person in order to get along in the world. I truly enjoy your views on this subject!

I suppose the first thing one must debate is to what extent our sense of sight is incorporated into our concept of God. In my opinion it is an extremely extensive element. It seems to me that visual stimulus is the primary factor in the development of our thoughts and ideas. This is not to say that thoughts and ideas would not occur in the absense of sight, of course, but that the sense of sight overwhelms the others so dominantly that the input from our other four senses is minor in comparison.

True. Everything we do, think, and say depends on our sight. The expression, "i'll believe it when i see it" is definatley a marker that this is true. Our other senses would have to heighten in order to match up to our abilities as a person without sight. Maybe we would "see" a different "light" within instead of without.

The next question has to be whether "god" reveals itself to man in some way (as most religions assert) or has man "created" god out of some deep instinctual need to explain his own surroundings and existence? If one assumes the former, then no further debate is required since we would also assume that, no matter the condition of man, "god" would reveal itself in some way. So to debate the importance of sight as an element in our concept of god, let's assume the latter.
If the concept of god grew out of man's physical existence and experience on this planet, then two questions follow. Would the concept have developed at all in the absence of sight and, if so, how would it differ? Obviously, the most qualified to answer these queries would be the community of blind people in our world. Absent this input, we must depend upon our own imaginations which, as pointed out earlier, is highly tainted by a lifetime of visual images stored in there. But I'll give it a shot. (No pun intended, Mr. Cheney.)

Yes, I have a tendency to believe that man created the concepts of god out of despiration to explain what we could not on our own. It's also comforting and easy to accept that there is a god, heaven and hell, its harder to think that we are truly on our own. (there's always a however... but i wont go into it right now...) I believe people made god in their image, or the image they wished of themselves. God could be a simple explination for healing, thought, and inspiration. It's all very easy to grasp for me... and yet takes blind faith to follow. I commend those that do. (but back to the subject at hand....: )

If you could create an identical planet Earth populated by humans without visual abilities (with that being the single, isolated difference in the thousands, millions or billions of years of man's evolution) I think it would be unrecognizable by us today. Obvious differences would be the lack of cars, highways and oil rigs that we depend on for our mobility today. Quite honestly, the differences would be so staggering that I am having a rough time even imaging what life would be like under this condition of sightlessness.

I just want you to use your mind! I'm so glad that you are giving this topic actual thought!

I'm going to focus on the ways my sight influences my concept of the existence of a god:
Today, there is so much printed matter available that one's spiritual path may be diverted in any number of directions during a lifetime. (This is true, at least, here in America; certainly it is less so in other parts of the world.) So reading is one of our visual sources of input. Images are another big influence, however, an association must be created in order for the image to have a religious meaning. A cross can have a very meaningful impact or it can just be the letter "t". It all depends on the association you assign to it. How about "miraculous" healings? Once again, there is a visual event which we find the need to explain. Why assign an explanation such as "it was an answer to prayer" rather than any other equally valid possibility such as "an unknown bio-kinetic immune system response occured, thereby eliminating the disease". It's not so much that we need to know why things are the way they are, but more of a need to explain why things happen. So without a sense of sight, would we still have a need to explain events that we cannot see? Well, I tend to think yes. Because we would still have human hearts and emotions, we would still care about each other. I think we would still desire to ease the pain and suffering of our fellow man. I think questions would still arise such as "Why did he get sick? ...and... Why was she injured? ...and... Why did the baby have to die?" And so I think we would still develop the need for spiritual salve of some kind to ease our aching hearts. And out of that comes the concept of a Greater Being; hopefully one that has our better well-being at heart.

:clap I agree with you 100%
Thank you so much for your views on the subject!

 

[michel]

You can take this next statement physically or any interpretation you like. I just like to see how people's minds work. Going real broad here: Do you think that if people were blind, we could truly see?

I'm going to just start out and see if i can get any ideas, then i'll focus on each at a time...(so much for organization!)

I love the question.

I'm going out on a limb here. If we can see, our minds are far to busy looking; without sight, there would be such a greater brain capacity to use on other senses. Yes, I believe there are things we would see that we don't see now. I love it!

 

[Buttons*]

What do you think about inner sight/light?

Do you think people are blind to that inner light (assuming it exists) by having physical sight?

(I'm not saying we should blind ourselves or anything like that, just so everyone knows...) I wonder what it would take to wake (the dead/sleeping) people up to the sight inside... And often I think about the mystics, and how if we were all mystic, we may be better off. (mostly cause we'd spend all our time thinking and meditating, haha... who has time to argue when we're searching inside?)

What would happen if everyone started thinking together instead of acting together or arguing together? I cant change the world or make it the way I see Utopia, but i think those of us who look beyond sight, and hear beyond sound should start talking together, and thinking together... imo....

...sorry, i've forgotten my actual topic... i'll go back to that....

 

[Buttons*]

I love the question.

I'm quite fond of it myself

I'm going out on a limb here.

Well, i'm glad, because you cant get to the fruit by staring at it, you have to climb the tree first!

If we can see, our minds are far to busy looking; without sight, there would be such a greater brain capacity to use on other senses.

What would this mean for humanity? In your opinion...

Yes, I believe there are things we would see that we don't see now.

Like what?

I love it!

I'm glad!

 

[1nharmony]

What do you think about inner sight/light?

Do you think people are blind to that inner light (assuming it exists) by having physical sight?

Ah, and now for the metaphysical aspect of sight.
As Michel pointed out above, visual input keeps our brains constantly working at processing that input. Without sight would we really have more of an inner awareness? Does outer vision inhibit our inner vision? I don't think either one is true. If it were true that blindness awakens or releases ones inner light (we'll stick with your term) then there would be countless stories and testimonies coming from blinded people who became enlightened as a result.

Inner light comes to all true seekers. Physical sight does not cause inner blindness, nor is the opposite true. If anyone is "blind" to thier inner light it is only because they have not sought it. Now, you probably could make a case for the thought that physical sight causes many to be distracted from the pursuit of inner wisdom, and if you did I would have to agree with you on that point.

 

[Buttons*]

Ah, and now for the metaphysical aspect of sight.
As Michel pointed out above, visual input keeps our brains constantly working at processing that input. Without sight would we really have more of an inner awareness? Does outer vision inhibit our inner vision? I don't think either one is true. If it were true that blindness awakens or releases ones inner light (we'll stick with your term) then there would be countless stories and testimonies coming from blinded people who became enlightened as a result.

True again!

Inner light comes to all true seekers. Physical sight does not cause inner blindness, nor is the opposite true. If anyone is "blind" to thier inner light it is only because they have not sought it.

yes. I wonder why some people dont seek it though... I have the same problem as everyone else, wanting them to see things the way i do... what a shame i'm such a hypocrite!

Now, you probably could make a case for the thought that physical sight causes many to be distracted from the pursuit of inner wisdom, and if you did I would have to agree with you on that point.

That's what i meant more or less...

 

[1nharmony]

True again!

.. I have the same problem as everyone else, wanting them to see things the way i do....

That's an interesting comment, Buttons, considering the thread topic. Shall we delve into the psychology of this philosophical faux pas?
Everyone is trying to find thier way in this world. Sometimes our paths intersect; sometimes they parallel. What I may find enlightening others will find dull and boring, so even if others could see what I "see" it may just confuse them.
I am happy to have discovered this forum and an outlet to express my thoughts. Being able to discuss such topics intelligently is quite a blessing. I am always concerned about disrupting another persons faith by challenging them with my own thoughts and ideas unless they are openly seeking knowledge and wisdom. Here, I feel the freedom to indulge in open discussion of all that I think and believe, as well as what others bring to the table.
Thanks for this "thinking" thread, Buttons! (Once I figure out how to do it, I will frubal you!)

 

[Buttons*]

That's an interesting comment, Buttons, considering the thread topic. Shall we delve into the psychology of this philosophical faux pas?
Everyone is trying to find thier way in this world. Sometimes our paths intersect; sometimes they parallel. What I may find enlightening others will find dull and boring, so even if others could see what I "see" it may just confuse them.

How true!

I am happy to have discovered this forum and an outlet to express my thoughts. Being able to discuss such topics intelligently is quite a blessing. I am always concerned about disrupting another persons faith by challenging them with my own thoughts and ideas unless they are openly seeking knowledge and wisdom. Here, I feel the freedom to indulge in open discussion of all that I think and believe, as well as what others bring to the table.

That's why we have so many addicts to this place! It's terribly addicting! And the ideas, love learning the ideas and beliefs!

Thanks for this "thinking" thread, Buttons!

well i do it for my own sick pleasures of trying to understand others thoughts. I like to see truth in all things, and help pull inner truth out. However, this doesnt always work, some people are not ready for it, and i really shouldnt be so pushy.... Any ideas you have concerning anything i'd LOVE to hear them! *smiles* PM me anytime you like.

And as for the rest of you, you should join this thread and start sharing your ideas!

 

[Maxist]

Well, if people were blind we could not se. However, it is obvious that we could still perceive the things around us. As long as we had but one sense we could perceive. All fish in the Postojna cave that live in the river running through it are completely blind and they have still lived for millenia in an enclosed, self-saficiant ecosystem.

 

[Buttons*]

Well, if people were blind we could not se. However, it is obvious that we could still perceive the things around us. As long as we had but one sense we could perceive. All fish in the Postojna cave that live in the river running through it are completely blind and they have still lived for millenia in an enclosed, self-saficiant ecosystem.

do you think it would change our philosophies at all?

 

[d.]

this makes me think of 'the day of the triffids'...

speaking as one who is nearly blind without glasses, i think being blind at least gives you another perspective on quite a few things. i wouldn't say it was a 'true' perspective though.

 

[Buttons*]

this makes me think of 'the day of the triffids'...

speaking as one who is nearly blind without glasses, i think being blind at least gives you another perspective on quite a few things. i wouldn't say it was a 'true' perspective though.

Yeah, i guess true perspective comes through the heart of a person. You can change their surroundings, but understanding and "sight" comes from within....

 

[d.]

Yeah, i guess true perspective comes through the heart of a person. You can change their surroundings, but understanding and "sight" comes from within....

i was rather thinking that 'true' perspective is impossible...

but on the other hand, i'm familiar with the sensation you describe. i'm not impossible.

 

[Buttons*]

i was rather thinking that 'true' perspective is impossible...

well, truth is subjective, but i'm digging straight to the mystical aspects of it all...

but on the other hand, i'm familiar with the sensation you describe. i'm not impossible.

well even if you were, its alright to have an opinion of your own! All i'm asking for is thought! Thank you for yours. *smiles*