Signs of eloquence in Quran

[KWED]

Another amazing point is how it reminds of God's existence,

You think that it is "amazing" that a book written to promote the existence of god keeps telling us that god exists?

Do you find it similarly amazing that Highway Code keeps reminding us about how to drive?

 

[KWED]

Mohsin Khan's take on 42:24: Or say they: "He has invented a lie against Allah?" If Allah willed, He could have sealed your heart (so that you forget all that you know of the Quran). And Allah wipes out falsehood, and establishes the truth (Islam) by His Word (this Quran). Verily, He knows well what (the secrets) are in the breasts (of mankind).

I don't understand your version. It makes no sense to me.

Apologists are sometimes guilty of deliberately mistranslating the Quran and using verses out of context. It is aways worth checking their quotes against multiple reputable, authentic translations.

 

[KWED]

@stevecanuck, per Quran itself there is a dark curse from Iblis not only regarding Quran, but all revelations of God. None of the revelations of God or what is left of them, appear in the right way to the hearts due to the dark magic of Iblis.

Ah, so Iblis' dark magic is stronger that Allah's Quran magic.
So why aren't we worshiping Iblis?

 

[KWED]

I'm saying for Theists who believe in God, they should take notice the argument for God's existence in Quran

But if they already believe in god, why do they need any arguments for god's existence?
It rather sounds like you are trying to convince yourself.

 

[KWED]

You guys ask for substance and examples of high eloquence

Who is asking that?
Any rational person knows that eloquence is in the ear of the beholder. You just saying "I think this passage is dead eloquent" is meaningless.

However, to people well versed in literature from a wide range of times and cultures, the Quran really isn't anything particularly special.
Look on most lists of the greatest literary works and you won't find the Quran. Here's one...
https://thegreatestbooks.org/lists/44

 

[KWED]

Salam

There is another feature of Quran which payed attention to is pretty awesome. It's the way chronologically the Surahs expand on one another or summarize one another.

This feature can be seen for example in the first Chapter (Al-Fatiha), we pray for guidance, and then it emphasizes that this book there is no doubt in it a guidance to those who guard (against God's wrath). The very writing itself of that chapter also emphasizes on the chosen leaders such as Adam, Abraham, Talut, the branches of Abraham such as Joseph (peace be upon them all), and talks about in detail what bani-Israel did with the guidance they were given in form of scriptures as well divinely appointed kings among them.

On the way to verse 2:255 which is the peak of Quran, it talks about the story of Talut (a) who was poor but had immense knowledge from God and was given authority from God. It than emphasizes that authority is in the family of Moses and family of Aaron (peace be upon them all), and with the singular tarak (left behind) it's understood the household of Moses is the household of Aaron per Quran and authority is given to that holy family. It also tells of the bravery of the followers of Talut (a) who when outnumbered were able to vanquish their enemies. This leads perfectly into the next Surah. The next Surah is basically an expansion of that but relates it to Mohammad (s).

Some brief display of this, is that the family of Imran is emphasized on, and that's also the same family of Musa and Aaron. It talks about the believers and the help they received from Angels in battle when outnumbered.

And going back to the "he gives his authority to who he pleases" in the previous chapter, we find it relates to Mohammad (s) "O my God Master of the Authority, you give the authority to who you please and negate the authority from who you please, and honor who you please and disgrace who you please, in your hands is the good, indeed you have power over all things".

This relationship of one chapter to another is amazing feature of Quran. The emphasis on the family of Abraham alongside family of Imran, is also a leading on to the next chapter. This was emphasized with obeying God and the Messenger and following Mohammad (s) if we love God.

It also in a way shows how God answered the prayers at the end of Surah 2, with respect to the companions of Mohammad (s).

In the 4th Chapter, the allusion to Family of Ibrahim (a) is highly important as it talks about the household of Abraham's authority and the grace of God upon them to give context to the Ulil-Amr (possessors of the Authority) from us. The "from you" is obvious by the talk that similarly we been given a family that holds authority like the family of Abraham had the authority and the grace of God regarding the families chosen for guiding humanity is immense.

Now what is amazing is how this all goes back to the first chapter and introduction. The Quran said "guide us the straight bridge" but doesn't stop there, and says "The path of those who you favored (humanity) regarding them..." while these words can be seen in many ways, in flow of 4:59 it finally concludes "And whoever obeys God and the Messenger so these are with those who he has favored (humanity) regarding them from the Prophets and Veracious and Witnesses and Righteous and beautiful/good are these as company!".

The Quran always talks about those who God has favored (humanity) regarding to be the chosen ones, and you will see this emphasis through out Quran. Of course, there is sometimes where it talks about who God favored with wealth and also who God favored in general in case of Zaid and who Mohammad (S) also favored (Zaid), but most of the places it emphasizes on the chosen:

أُولَٰئِكَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِمْ مِنَ النَّبِيِّينَ مِنْ ذُرِّيَّةِ آدَمَ وَمِمَّنْ حَمَلْنَا مَعَ نُوحٍ وَمِنْ ذُرِّيَّةِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْرَائِيلَ وَمِمَّنْ هَدَيْنَا وَاجْتَبَيْنَا ۚ إِذَا تُتْلَىٰ عَلَيْهِمْ آيَاتُ الرَّحْمَٰنِ خَرُّوا سُجَّدًا وَبُكِيًّا

These are they who God has favored (humanity) regarding them from the prophets of Adam’s progeny, and from [the progeny of] those We carried with Noah, and from among the progeny of Abraham and Israel, and from among those that We guided and chose. When the signs of the All-beneficent were recited to them, they would fall down weeping in prostration.


And this way Quran explains itself and explains the first chapter, is an amazing feature it has.

Regarding Isa (a) it also says is but a servant who God has favored (humanity) regarding and was made an example to Bani-Israel but else where talked about him being a word preceding from God and a spirit from him so we can see being servant who God favors humanity regarding is no small feet!

The chapter 5 also then flows with the previous 4 chapters. And I will discuss this is the next post inshallah.

Wait. You are saying that it is "awesome" that a record of historical events gets those events in the right order? lol!
Also bear in mind that the Quran was not revealed in the order it appears now. It war rearranged after the event. "Mind-blowing!"

 

[KWED]

It would make no sense if there was no divine planner all along but the order of chapters and relationship to one another is there and wisdom in the order is there.

The the order is not divine. It was ordered by men.

 

[KWED]

You should keep reading it, this how Quran appears to the novice, but if you reflect and keep reading, you will begin to see every chapter has a unique place in Quran but in a subtle way.

I have read the Quran multiple times. Every time I read it I find another problem with it.
All you are really saying is "But if you are a Muslim, you will find the Quran amazing". Mere confirmation bias.

 

[KWED]

One the amazing miracles in Quran, is how God is subtle yet clear in proving...

Interesting how you first claim it is clear, and then need to write pages explaining what it is you think it means, because not everyone agree with you.

Also, you can't call some pretty ordinary writing from the ancient Middle East "a miracle". A miracle is something that cannot possibly be explained by natural means. The Quran is best explained as the work of 7th century Arabs drawing on existing customs and beliefs from the region.

 

[KWED]

The Quran was dynamically built but with the teachings of Mohammad (a) and Ali (a). Every verse when revealed had a story and reason behind it. Then it took a place in Quran as it was dynamically being built.

We have the final built version and we don't know exactly how it was dynamically built.

But the light of Sunnah of the Messenger Mohammad (s) was obviously something that gave life to verses as they were revealed.

What does "dynamically built" mean?

 

[Link]

What does "dynamically built" mean?

One verse would be revealed in some Surah and he tells them place it here (not necessarily at the end). Another would be revealed in a different Surah. The Quran was not chronologically built.

The Surahs would be slowly built over time.

The fact this historically happened, yet Quran flows as if written at once, is a sign.

 

[KWED]

One verse would be revealed in some Surah and he tells them place it here (not necessarily at the end). Another would be revealed in a different Surah. The Quran was not chronologically built.

The Surahs would be slowly built over time.

The fact this historically happened, yet Quran flows as if written at once, is a sign.

Ah, you mean it was written in response to events and then edited after the event to try and improve it. Yes, I know this. However, it is still disjointed and repetitive.

Interestingly, if you read the Quran in chronological order, you can see the clear transformation from the more peaceful and conciliatory early period when he had few followers in Mecca, to the violent, intolerant expansionism of later years after he gained political and military power.

 

[stevecanuck]

One verse would be revealed in some Surah and he tells them place it here (not necessarily at the end). Another would be revealed in a different Surah. The Quran was not chronologically built.

The Surahs would be slowly built over time.

The fact this historically happened, yet Quran flows as if written at once, is a sign.

That's funny. The reason the Qur'an jumps all the way to surah 2 (12 years in) is that the first chronological 86 verses are an exercise in abject failure. They are sprinkled throughout the Qur'an in the hope that it won't be obvious that they failed in their objective, which was to convert the pagans.

It also puts fighting front and center and makes it appear that armed jihad was a part of Islam from the start.

 

[Link]

I agree the Quran is subjective to the perception of the perceiver, but when someone says something like this:

"Translation of al fatihah is what led me to Islam. I never even heard it until a while later and it made me cry" which I found on youtube.

I believe it's because they experienced the Surah through goodness of their soul which is light.

I can't make darkness appreciate light.

 

[KWED]

I agree the Quran is subjective to the perception of the perceiver, but when someone says something like this:

"Translation of al fatihah is what led me to Islam. I never even heard it until a while later and it made me cry" which I found on youtube.

I believe it's because they experienced the Surah through goodness of their soul which is light.

I can't make darkness appreciate light.

How could Sura 1 convince any rational person that Islam is true? It is just a list of meaningless religious platitudes, the likes of which can be found in many religious texts.

 

[Link]

How could Sura 1 convince any rational person that Islam is true? It is just a list of meaningless religious platitudes, the likes of which can be found in many religious texts.

Surah Fatiha is indeed a miracle and why we are to recite these words in every Salah, the Quran explains, and it makes the case for Islam.

 

[Link]

The thing is it takes a life journey to understand more of the Quran and still we can't reach it's full potential. Surah Fatiha and why these seven verses are chosen to be together and recited every Salah, the more sincere you are in Salah and the more you study Quran reflecting it with Surah Fatiha, the more secret opens up.

I will share a bit of this knowledge.

The name of God is itself a secret within a secret. Apparently God has a name, but what does it mean for God to have a name when he existed before all languages. Is it a title he chosen from one language or a title among titles he chosen? Or does it mean something else.

From my understanding of Quran and Sunnah, it means something else and it's the secret of why his chosen ones are chosen. The nature of the family of Mohammad (s) is a secret on top of a secret, but essentially they are God's beautiful names now and their truth is hidden and yet manifest.

The light of God is hidden yet manifest. Ali (a) is God's secret that can't be hidden.

The Quran wants us to thank God mainly realizing he has given us everything we could've ever wanted and asked for through his grand name. It's due his his name that all praise is to God. His favor thus is God's Name. All rituals, trials, tests, halal and haram is for us to attain to God's Name and see God through it.

He is Compassionate and Merciful and so wants us to redeem us through his name before he will fully manifest it's reality on the day of judgment. Day here means the truth of God's Name will be bright and manifest and the light of God will be manifest. The truth will be clear on that day with no doubt. The secret will be so manifest no one will doubt it and it won't be secret anymore. It will be no longer hidden.

Ultimately God has hidden his proof for his proofs till the day of judgment, so that every soul can get what it strives for and so it's for the sake of himself wanting to be desired and worshipped, has to some degree hidden his name.

God will be the Master that day, controlling everything, while in this world, he allows free-will to factor into a lot of things.

We are to Worship God and seek his help, but is this done directly to God alone?

We pray then to be guided upon the straight path, but it doesn't end there.

We are then emphasized three important things.

Those who God's favor (of religion to humanity) is upon which later Quran shows are his chosen.

Then we are told two other things, there are those who God's wrath is upon and there are those who are astray from the path, we pray we are of neither of these.

It's not enough to just wanted to be guided, but we have to search "those who God has favored (humanity) upon/regarding" and it's not enough to search those but we have to not want to be of those God's wrath is upon nor of those astray.

In other words we are to love God's chosen while disavowing the astray and who God's wrath is upon. We are to attach ourselves to those who God favored (humanity) upon so as to be guided and walk the straight path.

Ultimately, if we do this, we are connected to God and will taste benefits of this chapter through out are lives.

 

[KWED]

Surah Fatiha is indeed a miracle and why we are to recite these words in every Salah, the Quran explains, and it makes the case for Islam.

A "miracle" is an event that has no possible natural explanation and can only have been the conscious work of a supernatural being.

Surah al-Fatiha is just a collection of unremarkable words that anyone could write.
Just in case others are not familiar with this "miracle", here it is...

In the name of God, the infinitely Compassionate and Merciful.
Praise be to God, Lord of all the worlds.
The Compassionate, the Merciful. Ruler on the Day of Reckoning.
You alone do we worship, and You alone do we ask for help.
Guide us on the straight path,
the path of those who have received your grace;
not the path of those who have brought down wrath, nor of those who wander astray.

So, what is it about these verses that you think has no possible natural explanation and proves Islam to be true?
Really.

 

[Link]

So, what is it about these verses that you think has no possible natural explanation and proves Islam to be true?
Really.

I have a few posts in this thread explaining some of those reasons.

 

[KWED]

I have a few posts in this thread explaining some of those reasons.

And as usual, those posts make no sense.
Take #77. You merely reiterate the lines from the verse without explaining why they couldn't have been written by a 7th century Arab.
And of course there are nuggets like...
"Ultimately God has hidden his proof for his proofs till the day of judgment, so that every soul can get what it strives for and so it's for the sake of himself wanting to be desired and worshipped, has to some degree hidden his name."
...which is just meaningless word salad.