Signs of the Second Coming of Christ

[Katzpur]

I had to teach a Sunday School lesson today on the signs of the Second Coming of Christ. This particular class is designed primarily for recent coverts to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or for those outside our faith who may be interested in learning more about our beliefs. It's a very small group and we enjoy some interesting dialogue. Today, I got only about half-way through the material in our lesson manual, so I'm going to continue next Sunday where I left off. Anyway, as I taught the lesson, I realized how few of the things that we Latter-day Saints see as signs of the Second Coming other Christian Churches also believe to be indications that Christ's return is imminent. (Let me say before I go any further that I use the term "imminent" quite loosely. We believe that He will return "as a thief in the night" and do not attempt to predict when this event will take place.)

Anyway, since we are going to continue discussing this topic next week, and I thought it would be interesting to compare our unique beliefs to the beliefs of other Christians. I would love to hear from any non-denominational, Protestant, Roman Catholic or Orthodox Christians as to what your church teaches about the signs that will precede Christ's return to the Earth. I will quote you verbatim in the class, in order to be sure that I don't misrepresent your point of view. Latter-day Saints are welcome to participate in this thread, of course, but I already know what you guys believe. I am primarily interested in hearing the non-LDS Christian perspective and I intend to bump this thread as often as I need to during the coming week so that I can get a good sampling of what you all believe. Citing of scripture is, of course, fine, but I'd like to ask that if you cite scripture, please also explain to me how you interpret it. Non-Christians, please keep in mind that this is not a debate forum. Thank you all!

 

[SoyLeche]

We got into "Signs of the Times" a bit in Sunday School today too (there are so few kids in the class that I teach that we have combined it with the younger class and now I only teach every other week, so today I got to go to Gospel Doctrine). I found one comment very interesting. It was that we need to be careful that we don't put too much stock into how we interpret the scriptures about the second coming. After all, from a Christian point of view, the Messiah's first coming was missed by most of the Jews because they were too sure of what they were looking for. Something similar may very well happen the second time.

 

[Katzpur]

I found one comment very interesting. It was that we need to be careful that we don't put too much stock into how we interpret the scriptures about the second coming. After all, from a Christian point of view, the Messiah's first coming was missed by most of the Jews because they were too sure of what they were looking for. Something similar may very well happen the second time.

Right, except that I'm pretty sure that next time nobody's going to miss it!

 

[SoyLeche]

Right, except that I'm pretty sure that next time nobody's going to miss it!

That was his point - maybe we're reading that wrong I'm not saying we are, but keep an open mind and listen to the Spirit.

 

[Katzpur]

*bump*

 

[PHOTOTAKER]

i thank alot of people get confused with the line of events that will accure leading up to the 2nd comming. i'm sure those that went thought the black pleug thought that this was the end of the world... i thank most dwel on things that they have no contral, its funny though the book of revaltion was called the book of hope yet people find no hope in it...

 

[Katzpur]

Thanks, guys. I appreciate your input. I guess the rest of the Christians either don't know the answer or don't care to comment. I thought it could be an interesting discussion, but I guess I was wrong.

 

[PHOTOTAKER]

Thanks, guys. I appreciate your input. I guess the rest of the Christians either don't know the answer or don't care to comment. I thought it could be an interesting discussion, but I guess I was wrong.

i honestly don't thank the rest of chirstiondom can comprehend the 2nd comming they seek for signs and they find them and have been finding them thoughout history, but the fact of the matter no one knows when it will happen, i personaly belive it will happen when most of the world no longer belives in God... and the other part dose and keeps the commandments and are well taken care of becouse of the lord...

 

[PHOTOTAKER]

Well, really.... what IS the big deal about it?

It's just the Second Coming of Christ and the end of the world... no biggie.... why would anybody be interested in discussing the signs which are to precede this boring little event?


(on second thought, maybe your OP is too long for some people to read. It seems like anything longer than a few sentences is simply too much to bother with around here...)

i tend to fall off about the 6th or 7th paragraph, although if its good the hole thing

 

[Katzpur]

(on second thought, maybe your OP is too long for some people to read. It seems like anything longer than a few sentences is simply too much to bother with around here...)

Long? For me, that was short!!!

 

[*Paul*]

Sorry guys, I haven't looked around the site because my mind is engaged in my discussion with the Roman Catholic quiet lite. This is one of my favourite topics though. There is so much I want to discuss and time is escaping me.

One major one for me is a falling away from the faith and the acceptance of false teaching i.e religious deception within the proffessing church. This is the biggie for those within the church. Though we have always had these things it's the intensity and quantity of them that that has increased and is ever increasing, hopefully not for too much longer.

For the world it will take them by suprise they will be eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage right until the end in blissful and even wilful ignorance of what is going on, just like those in Noahs day.

Another one will be persecution of the saints which is happening all over the world with the exception of a few of us western countries. Again it has always happened but the intensity and quantity of it is worse and worse. It is like labour pains the signs are ever increasing in intensity and frequency until the pain stops and the beautiful child is born. The signs increase in frequency and intensity until the millenium and then after that the new heavens and new earth.

Israel being back in their homeland is another major one.

 

[may]

I had to teach a Sunday School lesson today on the signs of the Second Coming of Christ. This particular class is designed primarily for recent coverts to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or for those outside our faith who may be interested in learning more about our beliefs. It's a very small group and we enjoy some interesting dialogue. Today, I got only about half-way through the material in our lesson manual, so I'm going to continue next Sunday where I left off. Anyway, as I taught the lesson, I realized how few of the things that we Latter-day Saints see as signs of the Second Coming other Christian Churches also believe to be indications that Christ's return is imminent. (Let me say before I go any further that I use the term "imminent" quite loosely. We believe that He will return "as a thief in the night" and do not attempt to predict when this event will take place.)

Anyway, since we are going to continue discussing this topic next week, and I thought it would be interesting to compare our unique beliefs to the beliefs of other Christians. I would love to hear from any non-denominational, Protestant, Roman Catholic or Orthodox Christians as to what your church teaches about the signs that will precede Christ's return to the Earth. I will quote you verbatim in the class, in order to be sure that I don't misrepresent your point of view. Latter-day Saints are welcome to participate in this thread, of course, but I already know what you guys believe. I am primarily interested in hearing the non-LDS Christian perspective and I intend to bump this thread as often as I need to during the coming week so that I can get a good sampling of what you all believe. Citing of scripture is, of course, fine, but I'd like to ask that if you cite scripture, please also explain to me how you interpret it. Non-Christians, please keep in mind that this is not a debate forum. Thank you all!

http://www.watchtower.org/library/jt/article_04.htm

 

[Katzpur]

Sorry guys, I haven't looked around the site because my mind is engaged in my discussion with the Roman Catholic quiet lite. This is one of my favourite topics though. There is so much I want to discuss and time is escaping me.

One major one for me is a falling away from the faith and the acceptance of false teaching i.e religious deception within the proffessing church. This is the biggie for those within the church. Though we have always had these things it's the intensity and quantity of them that that has increased and is ever increasing, hopefully not for too much longer.

For the world it will take them by suprise they will be eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage right until the end in blissful and even wilful ignorance of what is going on, just like those in Noahs day.

Another one will be persecution of the saints which is happening all over the world with the exception of a few of us western countries. Again it has always happened but the intensity and quantity of it is worse and worse. It is like labour pains the signs are ever increasing in intensity and frequency until the pain stops and the beautiful child is born. The signs increase in frequency and intensity until the millenium and then after that the new heavens and new earth.

Israel being back in their homeland is another major one.

Thank you, Paul. I was starting to think that nobody was going to respond. I'm so glad you did. May I ask you one thing. You mentioned a "falling away." Is this something you believe is yet to come or that it has started to take place already? Do you see a "restitution of all things" as taking place prior to the Second Coming? And finally, do you see any of the signs of Christ's imminent return as being positive in nature, or are all of the signs more negative?

 

[Katzpur]

http://www.watchtower.org/library/jt/article_04.htm

Thank you, May. Would it be okay with you if I were to quote from that article?

 

[9harmony]

Hi Katzpur,

I know you are asking for other Christian perspectives and I am no longer a Christian. But I fully accept Christ and my love for Christ has led me to my current path. So perhaps you would be interested in another pov. If not, feel free to ignore me.

Members of the Baha'i Faith believe that the signs were fulfilled in the mid 1800's and that Christ has returned in the Glory of the Father.

I notice you said you didn't think that anyone could miss it this time...but as someone else mentioned that is exactly what they thought the first time, and we both know how that turned out, so perhaps that should give a reason to pause.

Baha'u'llah proclaimed:

"The river Jordan is joined to the Most Great Ocean, and the Son, in the holy vale, crieth out: 'Here am I, here am I O Lord, my God!', whilst Sinai circleth round the House, and the Burning Bush calleth aloud: 'He Who is the Desired One is come in His transcendent majesty.' Say, Lo! The Father is come, and that which ye were promised in the Kingdom is fulfilled! This is the Word which the Son concealed, when to those around Him He said: 'Ye cannot bear it now.' And when the appointed time was fulfilled and the Hour had struck, the Word shone forth above the horizon of the Will of God. Beware, O followers of the Son, that ye cast it not behind your backs. Take ye fast hold of it. Better is this for you than all that ye possess. Verily He is nigh unto them that do good. The Hour which We had concealed from the knowledge of the peoples of the earth and of the favoured angels hath come to pass. Say, verily, He hath testified of Me, and I do testify of Him. Indeed, He hath purposed no one other than Me. Unto this beareth witness every fair-minded and understanding soul." (Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 10)

And for this He was imprisoned, tortured, exiled and persecuted for 40 years. Those who persecuted Him thought they had succeeded in extinguishing this infant Faith...but less than 200 years later over 6 million people of all religious, racial and ethnic backgrounds have recognized His voice as the One they have been waiting for through independent investigation of His life and teachings.

for more info www.bahai.org

As I said, feel free to ignore me if this is of no interest to you. I hope I'm not imposing.

 

[Katzpur]

Hi Katzpur,

I know you are asking for other Christian perspectives and I am no longer a Christian. But I fully accept Christ and my love for Christ has led me to my current path. So perhaps you would be interested in another pov. If not, feel free to ignore me.

Members of the Baha'i Faith believe that the signs were fulfilled in the mid 1800's and that Christ has returned in the Glory of the Father.

I notice you said you didn't think that anyone could miss it this time...but as someone else mentioned that is exactly what they thought the first time, and we both know how that turned out, so perhaps that should give a reason to pause.

Baha'u'llah proclaimed:

"The river Jordan is joined to the Most Great Ocean, and the Son, in the holy vale, crieth out: 'Here am I, here am I O Lord, my God!', whilst Sinai circleth round the House, and the Burning Bush calleth aloud: 'He Who is the Desired One is come in His transcendent majesty.' Say, Lo! The Father is come, and that which ye were promised in the Kingdom is fulfilled! This is the Word which the Son concealed, when to those around Him He said: 'Ye cannot bear it now.' And when the appointed time was fulfilled and the Hour had struck, the Word shone forth above the horizon of the Will of God. Beware, O followers of the Son, that ye cast it not behind your backs. Take ye fast hold of it. Better is this for you than all that ye possess. Verily He is nigh unto them that do good. The Hour which We had concealed from the knowledge of the peoples of the earth and of the favoured angels hath come to pass. Say, verily, He hath testified of Me, and I do testify of Him. Indeed, He hath purposed no one other than Me. Unto this beareth witness every fair-minded and understanding soul." (Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 10)

And for this He was imprisoned, tortured, exiled and persecuted for 40 years. Those who persecuted Him thought they had succeeded in extinguishing this infant Faith...but less than 200 years later over 6 million people of all religious, racial and ethnic backgrounds have recognized His voice as the One they have been waiting for through independent investigation of His life and teachings.

for more info www.bahai.org

As I said, feel free to ignore me if this is of no interest to you. I hope I'm not imposing.

9harmony,

Of course you weren't imposing. I'm always interested in as many points of view as I can get, and I hold a special place in my heart for people of the Baha'i Faith. I love their openminded attitude and the respect they show to all faiths. I hope you will never hesitate to respond to any of my questions.

 

[Booko]

Hm...since I'm not a Christian and this is the Christian forum, I'll try to limit anything I say to just the references and leave out any interpretations (unless it was something I was taught in church).

I think it was SoyLeche who mentioned (among other things) Matthew 24.

That's where one of the other biggies can be found, in verse 14 -- the Gospel will be preached in all the world.

There's also the reference to the "abomination of desolation" which points back to Daniel.

And the ever-popular "wars and rumours of wars."

Katz, you could spend a fair bit of time just going through Matt. 24.

(btw, the reference to the "falling away first" is in 2 Thess. 2:3)

 

[Katzpur]

(btw, the reference to the "falling away first" is in 2 Thess. 2:3)

Yes, I know. It's obviously a favorite scripture among the Latter-day Saints, but we also believe in the "restitution of all things" which was prophesied to take place before Christ's return. In preparing this lesson, I was kind of surprised to learn (or at least be reminded of) all of the positive things the Latter-day Saints believe will take place before the Second Coming. I'd always just thought of the latter-days as a time of terrible destruction and wickedness, but even though we believe that all of those awful things will take place, we also see a number of very positive things as happening. (Of course, not too many non-LDS would agree with us, which is why I started this thread.)

 

[FFH]

We believe that He will return "as a thief in the night" and do not attempt to predict when this event will take place.)

To the wicked he will return as a thief in the night, but not to the righteous. We are commanded by Christ to "watch and pray" for his coming and we can do this by discerning the times we live in.

It's possible to know how close we are by studying scripture. For instance the Gulf War is in Revelation, which is commonly known as the five month war or the shortest war we have ever fought.

These are my own deductions, I didn't look to anyone to make these conclusion.

This particular passage of scripture has been fulfilled in my opinion.

Revelation 9

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.

8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.

9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.

10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon (Satan/Saddam Hussein), but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

One woe is past.

I believe the President of Iran,Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has taken over for Satan, where Saddam left off.

Remember Satan has very powerful people on this earth to do his dirty work for him.

 

[Katzpur]

To the wicked he will return as a thief in the night, but not to the righteous. We are commanded by Christ to "watch and pray" for his coming and we can do this by discerning the times we live in.

Matthew 24:36 tells us that "...of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." If even the Son does not known the day and the hour, it's a safe bet that no one else does either.

It's possible to know how close we are by studying scripture. For instance the Gulf War is in Revelation, which is commonly known as the five month war or the shortest war we have ever fought.

Oh dear, I'm afraid I must disagree with you again, FFH.

These are my own deductions, I didn't look to anyone to make these conclusion.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, FFH.