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Signs of the Second Coming of Christ

FFH

Veteran Member
Katz said:
I was kind of surprised to learn (or at least be reminded of) all of the positive things the Latter-day Saints believe will take place before the Second Coming. I'd always just thought of the latter-days as a time of terrible destruction and wickedness, but even though we believe that all of those awful things will take place, we also see a number of very positive things as happening.
Many devastating things will happen prior to Christ's coming, but they are for the benefit of the righteous.

Was not the Gulf war of extreme benefit to those people living in that part of the world? I know personally a family who lost their home and possessions under the evil reign of Saddam. They lived in Kuwait and now live in Salt Lake and their father was able to go back to Kuwait and support his family living in Salt Lake thanks to our government overthrowing that evil regime. They praise the U.S. and it's decisions to keep that part of the world safe for them, unlike us who just complain. The Bush family has done their part to fight evil in this world, for the benefit of those living in that part of the world. Is not the greatest love to lay down our lives for another. Many in our military have done that, and not in vain, so that others many enjoy the freedoms we enjoy.

These things in Revelation and other end time disasters come upon the wicked, not the righteous, for the benefit of the righteous, so that we may dwell on earth in righteousness, unhindered by the most wicked of people on this earth.

Revelation 9

12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. (Iraq/Iran)

15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.

17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone. (great military forces, tanks, jets, antiaircraft weapons, etc.)

18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: (military jets, tanks, etc.) for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

There is not doubt that the President of Iran will fulfill this part of Revelation, or someone in power coming after him, from the area of Iran or Iraq.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
Katzpur said:
Matthew 24:36 tells us that "...of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." If even the Son does not known the day and the hour, it's a safe bet that no one else does either.
Of course we don't know the day or the hour or the exact time, but Christ has not left us completely in the dark concerning this, that's why he said "the day or the hour" but I believe we can know the general time, because of what's written in scripture. Christ said when ye see these things being fulfilled know that my coming is nigh at hand (paraphrasing)

Oh dear, I'm afraid I must disagree with you again, FFH.
Well if you didn't I would think you weren't feeling well or something. Me and Comp have areed never to agree again, it makes the forum too boring... Just kidding... ;) ;)
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, FFH.
Not finished yet Katz. Not going to let you off that easy...;)
 

Comprehend

Res Ipsa Loquitur
FFH said:
To the wicked he will return as a thief in the night, but not to the righteous. We are commanded by Christ to "watch and pray" for his coming and we can do this by discerning the times we live in.
We can know the season and that's it.

Matt 24:30-33
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 ¶ Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer [is] nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, [even] at the doors.

It's possible to know how close we are by studying scripture. For instance the Gulf War is in Revelation, which is commonly known as the five month war or the shortest war we have ever fought.
commonly known as the five month war to people who cannot count...

The First Gulf War went from August 2, 1990 to March 1, 1991. That is 7 months on my fingers...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War

I do not see where it is referred to as the "five month war"

The conflict is known by numerous alternative names that reflect the historical, political, and journalistic views of different groups and regions. These include Gulf War, Persian Gulf War, War in the Gulf, 1990 Gulf War, Gulf War Sr. or First Persian Gulf War, Second Persian Gulf War Liberation of Kuwait, War of Kuwait .
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
FFH said:
Of course we don't know the day or the hour or the exact time, but Christ has not left us completely in the dark concerning this, that's why he said "the day or the hour" but I believe we can know the general time, because of what's written in scripture. Christ said when ye see these things being fulfilled know that my coming draweth nigh. (paraphrasing)
Okay, well I can go along with that.

Well if you didn't I would think you weren't feeling well or something.
And if I did, I'd know I wasn't feeling well. ;)

Not finished yet Katz. Not going to let you off that easy...;)
Uh, well you might be. I really didn't want to debate the topic. I was primarily interested in what non-LDS Christians believe on this subject, but not too many of them have weighed in on the discussion.
 

Comprehend

Res Ipsa Loquitur
FFH said:
Of course we don't know the day or the hour or the exact time, but Christ has not left us completely in the dark concerning this, that's why he said "the day or the hour" but I believe we can know the general time, because of what's written in scripture. Christ said when ye see these things being fulfilled know that my coming is nigh at hand (paraphrasing)

Well if you didn't I would think you weren't feeling well or something. Me and Comp have areed never to agree again, it makes the forum too boring... Just kidding... ;) ;)
Not finished yet Katz. Not going to let you off that easy...;)

FFH -

you do realize this is a thread for NON-LDS to post their thoughts?

Since you and I are both LDS, how about we both delete our posts and let Katzpur get the NON-LDS imput without you and I cluttering up the thread?

Deal?

(I'm deleting now...)
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
comprehend said:
FFH -

you do realize this is a thread for NON-LDS to post their thoughts?

Since you and I are both LDS, how about we both delete our posts and let Katzpur get the NON-LDS imput without you and I cluttering up the thread?

Deal?

(I'm deleting now...)
Knock it off, you two! Nobody touch that delete button or else!
 

Comprehend

Res Ipsa Loquitur
FFH,

While the Gulf War was not 5 months. The Falkland war was, maybe the British have been working for SATAN!!!!

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/malvinas.htm

The Falklands War was by far the largest and most extended series of naval battles since the Pacific campaign in World War II. Designated Operation CORPORATE by the British, the five month war included the world's most significant amphibious operations since the Inchon landings in 1950, a logistics pipeline of over 7000 miles, and a winter combat arena 3300 miles from the nearest friendly base at Ascension Island.
 

FFH

Veteran Member
Katz said:
Uh, well you might be. I really didn't want to debate the topic. I was primarily interested in what non-LDS Christians believe on this subject, but not too many of them have weighed in on the discussion.
Wasn't my intention to debate, just inform, and didn't realize you didn't want LDS input..

I'll leave you with this scripture.

Doctrine and Covenants 106: 4

4 And again, verily I say unto you, the coming of the Lord draweth nigh, and it overtaketh the world (Christ is referring to the wicked here) as a thief in the night—
 

FFH

Veteran Member
Katz said:
Uh, well you might be. I really didn't want to debate the topic. I was primarily interested in what non-LDS Christians believe on this subject, but not too many of them have weighed in on the discussion.
Probably because it's not a debate thread and this subject is highly debatable. Probably more than any subject.
 

Comprehend

Res Ipsa Loquitur
FFH said:
Okay "Signs of the Times" sounds like a good title for a debate thread. I'll start one unless you want to start it off.

Kat give me a minute and I'll delete this post and any others you want me too after I transfer the info onto another thread.

sounds good to me too. I love this topic.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
comprehend said:
sounds good to me too. I love this topic.
Well, you two have fun. It's one topic I have little interest in. But I have one more day before my Sunday School lesson and I'm hoping a few non-LDS Christians will drop by and contribute. If they don't, I guess I'll just have to make up a bunch of lies about what they believe. :D
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
Katzpur said:
I realized how few of the things that we Latter-day Saints see as signs of the Second Coming other Christian Churches also believe to be indications that Christ's return is imminent. (Let me say before I go any further that I use the term "imminent" quite loosely. We believe that He will return "as a thief in the night" and do not attempt to predict when this event will take place.)

I would love to hear from any non-denominational, Protestant, Roman Catholic or Orthodox Christians as to what your church teaches about the signs that will precede Christ's return to the Earth.

What I believe is the biggest misunderstanding here is there are two events that seem to get lumped together.

The first being, the "Glorious appearing" is when Christ appears in the clouds to call up all his people to spare them from the tribulation period. This will be the thief in the night.

The "second coming" is another event all together that happens 7 years later and is very predictable.

The same thing about judgements, there is not one judgement. There are many.

People tend to think of multiple events as one thing.

I hope I was not debating, but clarifying.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
Let me go on to say that the second coming is not all that predictable but easier to figure out. There are pre-tribbers, mid- tribbers, etc.

I believe Christ will not let his people suffer and will remove them sooner than later, but cannot say with confidence because of the thief in the night.

Rest assured that the glorious appearing is indeed not the second coming however.
 

*Paul*

Jesus loves you
Katzpur said:
Thank you, Paul. I was starting to think that nobody was going to respond. I'm so glad you did. May I ask you one thing. You mentioned a "falling away." Is this something you believe is yet to come or that it has started to take place already
A falling away has happened in a few times in church history but God has halted it with revival. But now tied in with the other signs i believe we are in the midst of the falling away spoken of by Paul characterised by religious deception within the "Christian" church.

? Do you see a "restitution of all things" as taking place prior to the Second Coming?
Definatly very quickly after the second coming.
And finally, do you see any of the signs of Christ's imminent return as being positive in nature, or are all of the signs more negative?
I can't think of any positive signs preceding Christs second coming but degeneration. The only one is at Christs second coming when the Jews that have survived antichrists attempt to annihilate them will see Christ coming and weep in repentance of their rejection of Him.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
*Paul* said:
A falling away has happened in a few times in church history but God has halted it with revival. But now tied in with the other signs i believe we are in the midst of the falling away spoken of by Paul characterised by religious deception within the "Christian" church.

Definatly very quickly after the second coming.
I can't think of any positive signs preceding Christs second coming but degeneration. The only one is at Christs second coming when the Jews that have survived antichrists attempt to annihilate them will see Christ coming and weep in repentance of their rejection of Him.
Thanks, Paul. I appreciate your input.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
*Paul* said:
I can't think of any positive signs preceding Christs second coming but degeneration. The only one is at Christs second coming when the Jews that have survived antichrists attempt to annihilate them will see Christ coming and weep in repentance of their rejection of Him.

Hey, Katz, I have to echo Paul here and say that I can't recall when being raised Christian of there being much good going on prior to the Second Coming. It was more like "the world will go to hell in a handbasket" and then Christ will come and straighten out the mess.

That's the view I still get from most Christians today who take an interest in the subject.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Booko said:
Hey, Katz, I have to echo Paul here and say that I can't recall when being raised Christian of there being much good going on prior to the Second Coming. It was more like "the world will go to hell in a handbasket" and then Christ will come and straighten out the mess.

That's the view I still get from most Christians today who take an interest in the subject.
I realize that and it's really interesting to me. LDS doctrine believes in the wars, wickedness, natural disasters, etc. but also in a number of very positive signs. I gave my lesson today and it (combined with last week's) really turned out well.
 
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