Simple Living and Higher Thinking

[I-Ching]

I've traveled to parts of the world where people still live the simple life... it is a beautiful thing.... so when this society does come toppling down, there is no need for alarm - may we all remember the joys of minimalism .

Glad someone agrees. What is your plan to save the world?

 

[I-Ching]

Funny thing about punishment. When tornadoes & floods hit, they seem to prefer churches & Bible Belt areas.
This heathen must be one of your god's chosen people.....I suffer no flood, no drought, no plague, no pestilence,
no ill health, no depression, no poverty, no hunger, no tornado/hurricane, no...you get the idea. I'm better off
than the vast majority of believers. Perhaps your god thinks that unfounded belief in him deserves punishment, eh?

Your compassion for others is most heart warming. You are clearly experiencing the fruits of the piety in your previous life, but don't worry you reactions are on their way, just be patient.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't think that technology has offered any significant benefit to human society.

Norman Borlaug disagrees with you.

And I do see a certain irony in you sitting at a computer, powered by an efficient electric grid connecting you with some distant generator, connected to a worldwide communications network of fibre optic cables and satellite links, complaining that technology's never done anything for you.

 

[Revoltingest]

Your compassion for others is most heart warming.

Now there's an odd non sequitur!

You are clearly experiencing the fruits of the piety in your previous life, but don't worry you reactions are on their way, just be patient.

What a brilliant ad hoc rescue.
It must be wonderful to have a ready answer for everything.

 

[idea]

Glad someone agrees. What is your plan to save the world?

Save the world? ... I have faith that God has it all under control, and will live in peace knowing that it is all in His hands....

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Save the world? ... I have faith that God has it all under control, and will live in peace knowing that it is all in His hands....

I know you mean well, but IMO, if anything's going to kill us, it's not technology; it's this attitude.

The belief that all our problems will be fixed magically without any input from us is fatally dangerous.

 

[I-Ching]

Do you have stats for that? Because I bet that if you look, you'll see that, in general, people have gotten steadily richer as time has gone on.

Again your perspective on history is limited. In previous ages there was much abundance.

But also so that everything becomes cheaper. If you wanted something even as trivial as a ring before the industrial revolution, you'd either have to make it yourself or buy someone's valuable time to make it for you. Now things billions of times more complex sell for a billionth of the cost, because robots don't need to be paid.
Well, humans are irrational anyway.

So lets just replace all the humans with robots.

Climate change is a solved problem. You can't blame the science if nobody's implemented the solution.

Well I've given the solution. What solution do the scientists give?

God didn't really help. Sure, it made people ostensibly happier, but it didn't stop anyone dying. It didn't stop a lot of disease, compared to germ theory. It didn't show us where we stand in the universe with any degree of credibility.

It made us satisfied with what we have so that we didn't need any planet destroying technology. The Vedas offer superior form of medicine as well as superior cosmology. Human concocted knowledge can't compete with Divine Knowledge.

Oil can be manufactured. It's just very expensive compared to pulling it out of the ground.

Why is it expensive? Because it takes a lot of energy.

I don't think you understand the scale of what technology can do. Some have hypothesized about how to meet the energy requirements of far-future civilization, and a fairly mild proposal was to cover Mercury in solar panels. That would provide the energy for a couple of trillion modern civilizations.

Now this is blind faith. Way too much star-trek.

 

[I-Ching]

Save the world? ... I have faith that God has it all under control, and will live in peace knowing that it is all in His hands....

I must agree with Penguin on this account. God has a plan and we have to play our part in that Plan, not that we sit back and let God do all the work. He is not our servant. If your not part of the solution then you are part of the problem. If you don't know what His Plan is then you should find out.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why is it expensive? Because it takes a lot of energy.

More than before, but we're still netting positive. "Cheap oil" could be had for an energy return of 10:1 or even better: for every joule of energy that went into processing the oil into usable fuel, including the energy cost of all the equipment involved, we'd get more than 10 joules back.

Even with something as energy-intensive as the Alberta tar sands, we're still getting an energy return of 3:1 or so.

Until we hit 1:1, energy will get more expensive, but things will still be sustainable with effort. And we have a long, long way to go before we reach that point.

Of course, there will be environmental impacts along the way, but we are quite far from running out of oil. Cheap oil... maybe. Usable oil... not for a long time.

 

[I-Ching]

More than before, but we're still netting positive. "Cheap oil" could be had for an energy return of 10:1 or even better: for every joule of energy that went into processing the oil into usable fuel, including the energy cost of all the equipment involved, we'd get more than 10 joules back.

Even with something as energy-intensive as the Alberta tar sands, we're still getting an energy return of 3:1 or so.

Until we hit 1:1, energy will get more expensive, but things will still be sustainable with effort. And we have a long, long way to go before we reach that point.

Of course, there will be environmental impacts along the way, but we are quite far from running out of oil. Cheap oil... maybe. Usable oil... not for a long time.

Well I don't know what you consider a long time; few predicts that go past 2050. That is not a long time, unless your a fly.

 

[PolyHedral]

More than before, but we're still netting positive. "Cheap oil" could be had for an energy return of 10:1 or even better: for every joule of energy that went into processing the oil into usable fuel, including the energy cost of all the equipment involved, we'd get more than 10 joules back.

Even with something as energy-intensive as the Alberta tar sands, we're still getting an energy return of 3:1 or so.

Until we hit 1:1, energy will get more expensive, but things will still be sustainable with effort. And we have a long, long way to go before we reach that point.

Of course, there will be environmental impacts along the way, but we are quite far from running out of oil. Cheap oil... maybe. Usable oil... not for a long time.

Oh, I was talking about assembling it from whatever hydrocarbons you had lying around, which usually won't let you break even. But I agree that usable oil won't disappear faster than we can get alternatives implemented.

Again your perspective on history is limited. In previous ages there was much abundance.

That's a very slithery statement. Much abundance compared to what? Did the average family have a set of a hundred slaves purely to transport them from place to place? Because that's what a car is.

So lets just replace all the humans with robots.

...Yes, actually. If you could replace all jobs with robots, you've just hit something called post-scarcity economics, with the net result that nobody need ever work again.

Well I've given the solution. What solution do the scientists give?

Modify the atmosphere. The figures I saw said it would only take a few million dollars to solve climate change entirely.

It made us satisfied with what we have so that we didn't need any planet destroying technology. The Vedas offer superior form of medicine as well as superior cosmology. Human concocted knowledge can't compete with Divine Knowledge.

If you want to know about me, do you ask me myself, or do you ask my best friend? Or my parents? You ask me, don't you?

Now this is blind faith. Way too much star-trek.

Star Trek can never happen, but that's fine, since it's a good story. Machines more powerful, more majestic and more glorious than everything humanity has constructed in all of its history are possible. (AFAWK) They probably won't happen in our lifetime, but they won't happen at all if we don't push technology forward.

If you don't believe me, go tell Alan Turing that his machines will be used to build photo-realistic virtual worlds purely for a movie set.

 

[idea]

I know you mean well, but IMO, if anything's going to kill us, it's not technology; it's this attitude.

The belief that all our problems will be fixed magically without any input from us is fatally dangerous.

I do volunteer work, donate to charities, try to be charitable/kind / set a good example - what else is there to do?

I cannot control another person's beliefs / feelings / character - there are some things which I cannot change... I don't want to be a control freak... instead of getting upset over what I cannot change, I put it into God's hands... I do what little I can do, and leave the rest to God. I do have faith in God, that everyone will gain the experiences needed to learn/grow/change/gain appreciation for what is true... refined in the fire, but refined - I have faith that the final outcome of it all will be refinement. Because I have faith in God, and in the outcome of it all, I can live in peace.

Wisdom - the serenity to give God the things we cannot change, the courage to change the things we can, and the wisdom to know the difference...

 

[I-Ching]

That's a very slithery statement. Much abundance compared to what? Did the average family have a set of a hundred slaves purely to transport them from place to place? Because that's what a car is.

In Vedic times when saintly kings ruled the planet. There was no poverty. Nature supplied all our necessities in abundance because human society was God-conscious. Not like our current society where 20% of the population consume 80% of its resources.

...Yes, actually. If you could replace all jobs with robots, you've just hit something called post-scarcity economics, with the net result that nobody need ever work again.

Yes a hand full of people will own those machines. Even less than the 20% that currently do and the rest will be unemployed.

Modify the atmosphere. The figures I saw said it would only take a few million dollars to solve climate change entirely.

Such faith. Hallelujah.

 

[I-Ching]

I do volunteer work, donate to charities, try to be charitable/kind / set a good example - what else is there to do?

If you take shelter of a pure devotee of God then you can change the world like Jesus did.

 

[PolyHedral]

In Vedic times when saintly kings ruled the planet. There was no poverty. Nature supplied all our necessities in abundance because human society was God-conscious. Not like our current society where 20% of the population consume 80% of its resources.

Citation needed. There are, AFAIK, never been "saintly" kings.

Yes a hand full of people will own those machines. Even less than the 20% that currently do and the rest will be unemployed.

But remember, robots are running everything. Including the factories that make the machines. Post-scarcity for all!

Such faith. Hallelujah.

You know that everyone, everywhere, abandoned all technology right now, that wouldn't actually fix anything?

 

[idea]

If you take shelter of a pure devotee of God then you can change the world like Jesus did.

not through government mandates, not through the EPA, not through wars or bloodshed... not through electrical cars, or robots ....

Mother T - she had the right idea...
... so did Jesus.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I do volunteer work, donate to charities, try to be charitable/kind / set a good example - what else is there to do?

I'm glad you do all that, but I think it goes against the sentiment you expressed earlier. If God's on the case, then isn't any action of yours unnecessary and redundant?

OTOH, if your actions are needed and helpful in these regards (and IMO, they are), why wouldn't people's actions be needed and helpful when it comes to our impact on the environment?

I cannot control another person's beliefs / feelings / character - there are some things which I cannot change... I don't want to be a control freak... instead of getting upset over what I cannot change, I put it into God's hands... I do what little I can do, and leave the rest to God. I do have faith in God, that everyone will gain the experiences needed to learn/grow/change/gain appreciation for what is true... refined in the fire, but refined - I have faith that the final outcome of it all will be refinement. Because I have faith in God, and in the outcome of it all, I can live in peace.

Wisdom - the serenity to give God the things we cannot change, the courage to change the things we can, and the wisdom to know the difference...

Hmm. IMO, humanity has an amazing track record of doing things that were once considered impossible. Personally, I'm not prepared to dismiss anything as a "thing we cannot change". In any event, the only real way to figure out whether we can change a thing is to try and see what happens.

 

[I-Ching]

not through government mandates, not through the EPA, not through wars or bloodshed... not through electrical cars, or robots ....

Mother T - she had the right idea...
... so did Jesus.

Good works are not going to save the world only Divine Works. We have to know God's Will and follow His Will. Scripture alone can not tell God's Will nor can our imperfect intuition. You can't go directly to God, you need to go through His representative.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Mother T - she had the right idea...
... so did Jesus.

Mother Teresa left people to die in pain out of a mistaken notion that suffering is virtuous, and took the money that was given to her for her hospital and used it to fund a franchise system of convents. I'd rather not follow her example.

 

[PolyHedral]

Good works are not going to save the world only Divine Works. We have to know God's Will and follow His Will. Scripture alone can not tell God's Will nor can our imperfect intuition. You can't go directly to God, you need to go through His representative.

...But his representatives can?