Simplified argument vs free will

[Willamena]

So then beliefs are what we accept to to be true and desires are what we want to be true?

So the world causes us to acceptance things. (ideally)

How do you derive this blue part?

What causes us to desire things?

I paint human behavior in desire. Why shouldn't I? Why act if there is no desire?

No, it's not a bad thing. Neither is painting in belief, as I do, or other things. There certainly is desire.

According to some, we "attach" ourselves, with an instance of thought, to an object. "Desire" arises from thought, too, as does "need." They are concepts. We can, with practice, minimize the concepts until we move in thought.

Why thought exists, I've heard no theory about.

 

[Nakosis]

How do you derive this blue part?

They were saying a belief "fits" itself according to how the world is. IOW the world provides the cause to accept a belief as true.

Whereas a desire is something that does not fit the world currently but we'd lie to cause it to.

No, it's not a bad thing. Neither is painting in belief, as I do, or other things. There certainly is desire.

According to some, we "attach" ourselves, with an instance of thought, to an object. "Desire" arises from thought, too, as does "need." They are concepts. We can, with practice, minimize the concepts until we move in thought.

Why thought exists, I've heard no theory about.

Thought is as I refer to the virtual reality the brain creates. The brain can create and manipulate images and ideas. They believe the human brain developed this ability some 50K years ago. They find at this time an explosion of creativity in human invention/culture.

 

[idav]

Thought is as I refer to the virtual reality the brain creates. The brain can create and manipulate images and ideas. They believe the human brain developed this ability some 50K years ago. They find at this time an explosion of creativity in human invention/culture.

How do you think the mind creates a new idea deterministically? If we were like animals we wouldn't have new ideas we would be much more subject to our environment rather than the surrounding being more subject to us.

 

[Nakosis]

Knowledge.

When something is an illusion, knowledge of how it works gives us power and control over the reality of it.

As soon as you tell somebody they don't really have free will they could in turn start analyzing the motives of things which can then in turn free the person from the constraints that kept them from having free will in the first place.

Yes, "As soon as you tell somebody". Don't you see a cause and effect here?

Anyway, compatibilism says this...

A person has only one path or course through their life. It is the path of least resistance to their will. If one could, theoretically, determine that path then that person's entire life could be determined.

So unless LFW says a person will act other then how they choose to act, it's a non-issue.

 

[Nakosis]

How do you think the mind creates a new idea deterministically? If we were like animals we wouldn't have new ideas we would be much more subject to our environment rather than the surrounding being more subject to us.

By combining ideas and images it has already experienced. For example seeing a bird fly and imagining a human being able to fly as well. Eventually this led to the creation of aircraft.

 

[idav]

By combining ideas and images it has already experienced. For example seeing a bird fly and imagining a human being able to fly as well. Eventually this led to the creation of aircraft.

Humans being able to think outside the box and harness things like fire is what separates us from other animals who are more subject to causality.

 

[Nakosis]

Humans being able to think outside the box and harness things like fire is what separates us from other animals who are more subject to causality.

Human behavior developed about 50K years ago. To the point were it could be said there was something different about us from other animals.

The brain is capable of thinking "outside of the box" because it developed the ability to imagine the world other then is was.

If we develop a computer program that is capable of creating a virtual world and changing it's programming based on feedback from that virtual world, will it have freewill?

 

[idav]

If we develop a computer program that is capable of creating a virtual world and changing it's programming based on feedback from that virtual world, will it have freewill?

Yes because it is free from the programmer. It would be an agent acting on it's own.

 

[Nakosis]

Yes because it is free from the programmer. It would be an agent acting on it's own.

Ok well some think it's is very possible for computer to develop this along with a sense of self awareness.

I imagine if at some point humans die out and only computer are only left, 50 or 100 thousand years from now they may wonder who created them.

 

[Orias]

I tend to see freewill as being more under the category of the "wu-wei" or effortless effort.

It is when excersied, and it isn't when manipulated.

Either way, humans possess some amount of freewill or thought subjected to the inner determinism and judgement of our perception.

In way a we are our own programmers, thus making us our own creators.

Of course though we are born and raised, but when abstract reasoning developes is when the reigns are put in our hands. It just depends on how freely people wish and chose to excercise the rights given to us over fish of the sea, the fowel in the air, and over the cattle and all of earth and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

 

[Willamena]

If we develop a computer program that is capable of creating a virtual world and changing it's programming based on feedback from that virtual world, will it have freewill?

That is free will.