Sin is real

[Alla Prima]

Guilt is useless. Get rid of it.

 

[mfrankpdx]

Probably most people here would say that sin isn't real. But I bet everyone here has done something there conscience told them not to and has suffered from a guilt complex because of it. So do you think good and evil exists in this world as something more than developments in our own brain, is there really no need to repent. In fact for people who know how bad their sin is the sacrifice of Jesus makes the most since. They think how can I ever be righteous, and they look at what Jesus did at his death and it's like he saying, yeah but look how much I went through for it. Anyone that comes to Jesus can definitely be forgiven.

Sin isn't real. I heard someone use an analogy the other day, I can't remember who or where. Christianity tells you that you are born with original sin, and only by asking Jesus for forgiveness can you be allowed into heaven. In a sense, they are giving you the disease, knowing they're the only ones with the cure.

It's like they're punching you in the eye, then selling you a bag of ice for the swelling.

 

[Father Heathen]

Probably most people here would say that sin isn't real. But I bet everyone here has done something there conscience told them not to and has suffered from a guilt complex because of it. So do you think good and evil exists in this world as something more than developments in our own brain, is there really no need to repent. In fact for people who know how bad their sin is the sacrifice of Jesus makes the most since. They think how can I ever be righteous, and they look at what Jesus did at his death and it's like he saying, yeah but look how much I went through for it. Anyone that comes to Jesus can definitely be forgiven.

I do believe in a sense of morality, but it's based on logic, honor, honesty and innate compassion, cause and effect, action and reaction, etc. Not some magical voodoo concept of "sin". It would seem the Christian concept of morality has very little to do with ethics, decency and empathy but rather centers around blindly adhering to bizarre rituals and pointless restrictions while licking the toes of an invisible sky daddy.

 

[GiantHouseKey]

Greetings

I also disagree with the concept of sin, even Base 3. If sin is something that God forbids, then I must conclude that sin is a useless concept, as I have no God.

Guilt, on the other hand, isn't really related to sin. I've felt bad about giving somebody money before, but the bible would say that's a virtue not a sin. Why did I feel bad? Because it meant that I had less money. I'm selfish like that.

So back to sin, why would God punish me for giving to others?

I can see it.

Prove I can't.

.......Aaahhh....The burden of proof is on the affirmative claim. Sorry, I had to, i'm just an annoying pedant.

GhK.

 

[Storm]

.......Aaahhh....The burden of proof is on the affirmative claim. Sorry, I had to, i'm just an annoying pedant.

GhK.

Positive claim, not affirmative.

 

[Father Heathen]

Guilt is useless. Get rid of it.

I disagree, as long as someone feels guilt for something that they should feel guilt for. For example, if a parent was irresponsible to a degree that it negatively impacted their children, perhaps a sense of guilt would influence them to make a positive change regarding their behavior. Guilt naturally accompanies a sense of responsibility and empathy.

Of course religions instill and manipulate such feelings to a very unhealthy degree.

 

[YmirGF]

I disagree, as long as someone feels guilt for something that they should feel guilt for. For example, if a parent was irresponsible to a degree that it negatively impacted their children, perhaps a sense of guilt would influence them to make a positive change regarding their behavior. Guilt naturally accompanies a sense of responsibility and empathy.

Of course religions instill and manipulate such feelings to a very unhealthy degree.

Agreed. Natural guilt over doing something you really didn't believe you should have done, is fine, if one learns not to repeat the process -- too often. Unnatural guilt is a whole different ball of goo. Concepts of sin are, imo, simple value judgments made for those who can't figure life out for themselves and need to be told what to do.

 

[Bedlam]

.......Aaahhh....The burden of proof is on the affirmative claim. Sorry, I had to, i'm just an annoying pedant.

You, sir, just used my hubris to slay my rhetorical device.

Curse you.

 

[Alla Prima]

I disagree, as long as someone feels guilt for something that they should feel guilt for. For example, if a parent was irresponsible to a degree that it negatively impacted their children, perhaps a sense of guilt would influence them to make a positive change regarding their behavior. Guilt naturally accompanies a sense of responsibility and empathy.

Of course religions instill and manipulate such feelings to a very unhealthy degree.

Disagree. Guilt is a destructive emotion - nothing positive. It will eat at you and is often used to manipulate. It's function is to belittle it's host through judgement. One can improve their responsibilties through the motivation of positive compassion and love. Very healthy not only for the loved one but for oneself.

 

[Alla Prima]

Agreed. Natural guilt over doing something you really didn't believe you should have done, is fine, if one learns not to repeat the process -- too often. Unnatural guilt is a whole different ball of goo. Concepts of sin are, imo, simple value judgments made for those who can't figure life out for themselves and need to be told what to do.

There is only one guilt.

 

[Father Heathen]

Disagree. Guilt is a destructive emotion - nothing positive. It will eat at you and is often used to manipulate. It's function is to belittle it's host through judgement. One can improve their responsibilties through the motivation of positive compassion and love. Very healthy not only for the loved one but for oneself.

So you're saying that a sexual predator who habitually preys upon children, for example, shouldn't feel any sort guilt, regret or remorse?

 

[YmirGF]

There is only one guilt.

On the surface, I agree, however if one explores what precipitates guilt one may discover there are quite normal causes for guilt and comparatively abnormal causes for guilt. You are correct in that the emotion IS the same, however, the trigger that creates the guilt can be very, very different.

For example if your actions unwittingly cause the death of another the guilt you will feel will be somewhat normal and expected. This is what I mean by natural guilt. This kind of guilt is meant to be handled constructively so as to not repeat the experience. By dealing with the experience one can bypass the unnecessary stage of becoming fixated on the experience due to denial.

Subscribing to lofty, unrealistic ideals can result in unnatural guilt, such as the case of telling a teenager not to masturbate because God says so. If the teen believes that to be true they will feel very guilty for "giving into the weakness of the flesh". This kind of guilt is quite unnecessary and in my view, unnatural, as the teen has been indoctrinated into a belief system before they understand what they are getting themselves into. As if growing up isn't complicated enough without such delusional thinking. The thing is unnatural guilt is much harder to resolve because there are other issues involved other than a given act in an of itself. It is my belief that this is one reason why there are so many people on this small rock who are so sexually repressed, because they were given highly unrealistic ideas about sexuality prior to becoming sexually active and relatively few learn how to get over their unnatural guilt.

I hope this makes some sense although I don't know that I have explained it all very well.

 

[idea]

everyone here has done something there conscience told them not to and has suffered from a guilt complex because of it. .

our conscience is the "light of Christ" personal direcion from Jesus himself guiding everyone on this planet on what to do.

LIGHT, LIGHT OF CHRIST. See also Conscience; Holy Ghost; Intelligence, Intelligences; Jesus Christ; Truth
Divine energy, power, or influence that proceeds from God through Christ and gives life and light to all things. It is the law by which all things are governed in heaven and on earth (D&C 88:6–13). It also helps people understand gospel truths and helps to put them on that gospel path which leads to salvation (John 3:19–21; 12:46; Alma 26:15; 32:35; D&C 93:28–29, 31–32, 40, 42).
The light of Christ should not be confused with the Holy Ghost. The light of Christ is not a person. It is an influence that comes from God and prepares a person to receive the Holy Ghost. It is an influence for good in the lives of all people (John 1:9; D&C 84:46–47).
One manifestation of the light of Christ is conscience, which helps a person choose between right and wrong (Moro. 7:16). As people learn more about the gospel, their consciences become more sensitive (Moro. 7:12–19). People who hearken to the light of Christ are led to the gospel of Jesus Christ (D&C 84:46–48).
The Lord is my light, Ps. 27:1. Let us walk in the light of the Lord, Isa. 2:5 (2 Ne. 12:5). The Lord shall be an everlasting light, Isa. 60:19. The true Light lighteth every man that cometh into the world, John 1:4–9 (John 3:19; D&C 6:21; 34:1–3). I am the light of the world, John 8:12 (John 9:5; D&C 11:28). Whatsoever is light, is good, Alma 32:35. Christ is the life and the light of the world, Alma 38:9 (3 Ne. 9:18; 11:11; Ether 4:12). The Spirit of Christ is given to every man that he may know good from evil, Moro. 7:15–19. That which is of God is light, and groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day, D&C 50:24. The Spirit giveth light to every man, D&C 84:45–48 (D&C 93:1–2). He that keepeth his commandments receiveth light and truth, D&C 93:27–28. Light and truth forsake that evil one, D&C 93:37.
(Guide to the Scriptures | L Light, Light of Christ.:Entry)

Conscience. The word is not found in the O.T. The chief passage in the N.T. is Rom. 2:14–15. The concept is that we are born with a natural capacity to distinguish between right and wrong, due to the light of Christ that is given to every person, D&C 84:44–53. We have a faculty by means of which we can pass judgment on our own conduct, either approving or condemning it, so anticipating the divine judgment on it. This faculty is called conscience. The possession of it at once makes us responsible beings. Like other faculties it needs to be trained, and may be deadened through misuse. Bible teaching on the subject may be classified as follows: an accusing, Gen. 3:10; 42:21; 1 Sam. 24:16–22; Prov. 20:27; Matt. 14:2; 27:3; Mark 6:16; Luke 9:7; John 8:9; Acts 24:25; Rom. 2:15; an ill-informed or ill-trained, John 16:2; Acts 8:1, 3; 26:9; Rom. 9:31; 10:2; Gal. 1:14; 4:9–11; Col. 2:16–18; 1 Tim. 1:13; a good, Acts 23:1; 24:16; Rom. 2:15; 9:1; 2 Cor. 1:12; 4:2; 1 Tim. 1:5, 19; 3:9; Heb. 13:18; 1 Pet. 3:16, 21; 1 Jn. 3:21; an evil, 1 Tim. 4:2; Titus 1:15; 1 Jn. 3:22; working of, Rom. 13:5; 14:22; 1 Pet. 2:19; respect for a weak, Rom. 14; 15:1; 1 Cor. 8:7–13; 10:23–33; purification of the, Heb. 9:14; 10:22; 1 Pet. 3:21.
(Bible Dictionary | C Conscience:Entry)

see underlined.

 

[themadhair]

So has anybody posted a definition of sin that we can use to start debating the OP?

 

[sojourner]

So has anybody posted a definition of sin that we can use to start debating the OP?

"Acting selfishly instead of selflessly" might be good.

 

[themadhair]

"Acting selfishly instead of selflessly" might be good.

According to that definition sin exists. i don't think that was the idea the OP had in mind though.

 

[sojourner]

According to that definition sin exists. i don't think that was the idea the OP had in mind though.

Sorry! Didn't know we were talking about "see-un."

 

[Sonic247]

"Sin" is a vague word, so let's compare definitions. I understand sin to mean "something God disapproves of." This concept is incompatible with my concept of God, therefore I do not believe in sin.

Do you dis/agree with my definition?

I agree with the definition.

 

[Storm]

I agree with the definition.

Then, as I said, I don't believe in sin.

 

[Sonic247]

Well personally I think that if God didn't dissaprove of anything we did he would be ignoring things that shouldn't be ignored.