Singularity as God

[idav]

But that's no more evidence of a creator-god than just reading tea leaves. Maybe there is a creator-god, so who am I to say or imply there isn't, but the fact of the matter is that we cannot confirm there is one, nor can we confirm how many deities there hypothetically could be.

I dont need a creator god. Energy cant be created or destroyed so the singularity has it without it being created.It has the other Iiimportant attributes, I am not exactly looking to prove a personal god. That is about the only thing we cant verify without a personal chat with god, some way for it to purposely show us.

 

[gnostic]

Science simply is knowledge of god and how things work. If god is real then science should find something with the power, being eternal, and all present, and science has found it with the singularity

You are throwing a lot of ideas, making assumptions that somehow a deity is involved, is merely speculation and wishful thinking...and that has nothing to do with science.

Nothing in what you have said prove that god exist, or that god is a singularity.

I still don't see how you can leap from singularity to a god.

Let's say that god has an attribute of being "eternal". Well, clearly the singularity isn't "eternal", because it ended when the expansion had occurred.

 

[Thief]

Nothing in what you have said prove that god exist, or that god is a singularity.

I still don't see how you can leap from singularity to a god.

Let's say that god has an attribute of being "eternal". Well, clearly the singularity isn't "eternal", because it ended when the expansion had occurred.

It's more like the singularity leapt FROM God.
last line looks good as is.

 

[Thief]

I dont need a creator god. Energy cant be created or destroyed so the singularity has it without it being created.It has the other Iiimportant attributes, I am not exactly looking to prove a personal god. That is about the only thing we cant verify without a personal chat with god, some way for it to purposely show us.

But motion must be initiated and can be halted.
In the beginning..............

 

[idav]

You are throwing a lot of ideas, making assumptions that somehow a deity is involved, is merely speculation and wishful thinking...and that has nothing to do with science.

Nothing in what you have said prove that god exist, or that god is a singularity.

I still don't see how you can leap from singularity to a god.

Let's say that god has an attribute of being "eternal". Well, clearly the singularity isn't "eternal", because it ended when the expansion had occurred.

The singularity evolved to the big bang, it didn't end.

 

[gnostic]

In the beginning..............

In the beginning, the Earth would not exist till 8 or 9 billion years after the Big Bang. So basically the Genesis 1:1-2 is utter rubbish, because it say that it created the Earth and the same time as heaven.

That is, if "heaven" in this instance (in Genesis 1:1) is referring to space, solar system, or the universe, and not the abode of God.

The Earth's oldest rocks are 4.54 billion year old. The Big Bang occurred or the initial expansion from the singularity 13.798 billion years. You do the maths.

When the first generation of the earliest stars (known as "population III stars" began appearing, the Sun and our solar system didn't exist. Our Sun, planets, including Earth are byproduct of the end of the earlier generations of stars.

When the (atomic) elements first existed, the majority of the elements were Hydrogen, followed by Helium, and lesser amount of the Lithium in our very young universe.

And most stars were made out of hydrogen, the stars main source of fuel. There were no heavier element like oxygen, carbon, iron or silicon, when the first stars began appearing. There weren't no planets. The terrestrial planet like Earth have high concentration of iron.

So if you think your claim that Genesis 1:1 is correct, that heaven (universe) and Earth were created at the same time, then you are wrong, and so is the Bible (or at least, Genesis).

 

[gnostic]

The singularity evolved to the big bang, it didn't end.

That could be very well the case, granted.

BUT it still doesn't mean the singularity is god or eternal, which you have claimed.

 

[viole]

That could be very well the case, granted.

BUT it still doesn't mean the singularity is god or eternal, which you have claimed.

I strongly agree that the singularity is God.

The singularity is a moniker for "what we do not know", because all our equations break down when we treat things like singularities. They just signal that we need to do more work to understand how generl relativity and quantum mechanics harmonize at this physical level, because we have no clue today.

Therefore, saying that the singularity is God is like saying that what we do not know is God. Which is true, at least for many people.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Thief]

In the beginning, the Earth would not exist till 8 or 9 billion years after the Big Bang. So basically the Genesis 1:1-2 is utter rubbish, because it say that it created the Earth and the same time as heaven.

That is, if "heaven" in this instance (in Genesis 1:1) is referring to space, solar system, or the universe, and not the abode of God.

The Earth's oldest rocks are 4.54 billion year old. The Big Bang occurred or the initial expansion from the singularity 13.798 billion years. You do the maths.

When the first generation of the earliest stars (known as "population III stars" began appearing, the Sun and our solar system didn't exist. Our Sun, planets, including Earth are byproduct of the end of the earlier generations of stars.

When the (atomic) elements first existed, the majority of the elements were Hydrogen, followed by Helium, and lesser amount of the Lithium in our very young universe.

And most stars were made out of hydrogen, the stars main source of fuel. There were no heavier element like oxygen, carbon, iron or silicon, when the first stars began appearing. There weren't no planets. The terrestrial planet like Earth have high concentration of iron.

So your claim that Genesis 1:1 is correct, that heaven (universe) and Earth were created at the same time, then you are wrong, and so is the Bible (or at least, Genesis).

Your post of elemental development I share....
But Heaven is spiritual.
Earth is substance.

As the substance took form .....so too heaven.
Heaven to the Spirit.
Earth to the flesh.

 

[idav]

Your post of elementbeginningelopment I share....
But Heaven is spiritual.
Earth is substance.

As the substance took form .....so too heaven.
Heaven to the Spirit.
Earth to the flesh.

I just dont take to the duality, as far as we can tell, what the beginning was and all its power is what we are, just a fraction of it but that power still resides within, and just going as is, I hear should last trillions of more years. The oneness was helpful and still exists.

 

[gnostic]

Your post of elemental development I share....
But Heaven is spiritual.
Earth is substance.

You do realize that it is total bad-a22 nonsense.

If God is eternal, as you believe him to be, then why would he make heaven (his spiritual abode) at the same time as Earth (in Genesis 1:1)? Wouldn't God made this spiritual heaven long before the Earth?

In any case, I don't think heaven mean God's spiritual abode. Nor do I think heaven mean "universe". In the context of Genesis 1, I think that this "heaven" is nothing more than the observable sky - which would include the clouds, the sun, moon, the 5 known planets, and the stars that can be seen without the telescope.

When I read Genesis 1, in entirety, I see it is a creation of the physical world, including the observable sky, thus "heaven". This same heaven is referred to in the 2nd day of creation (Genesis 1:6-8, as the firmament (in the KJV translation), or the "dome" in NRSV, or "expanse" in NJPS.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Do you see "And God called the firmament Heaven", especially the last verse (1:8)?

Clearly, Heaven is the sky.

Below are two more examples, using "dome" and "expanse" to refer to the "sky":

6 And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so. 8 God called the dome Sky. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.

6God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the water, that it may separate water from water.” 7God made the expanse, and it separated the water which was below the expanse from the water which was above the expanse. And it was so. 8God called the expanse Sky. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.

I think the "heaven" in KJV's Genesis 1:8, is the same "heaven" at the very start of this chapter, in Genesis 1:1.

So no, the heaven in Genesis 1:1 doesn't refer to the spiritual world.

Of course, you are going to ignore my points, as most creationists seem to do.

 

[`mud]

I always wonder, if Genesis is 'true', from where did the water come ?
Water everywhere, and no-one created it.
The 'dome', 'heaven', 'sky' or whatever, Earth, firmament up and down, plants, soil, and on and on.
Who created the water that was already there, but.....
my memory is getting pretty tired and I forget a lot of stuff.
~
'mud

 

[Thief]

Firmament could refer to a decided 'form' or perhaps a scheme of things.

You could think of the void as perfection...and the formation of light as an aberration.

Separating heaven from the rest of the creation does seem a bit odd.
Why do so?.......
But most people do see our existence AS separate.

 

[Thief]

I always wonder, if Genesis is 'true', from where did the water come ?
Water everywhere, and no-one created it.
The 'dome', 'heaven', 'sky' or whatever, Earth, firmament up and down, plants, soil, and on and on.
Who created the water that was already there, but.....
my memory is getting pretty tired and I forget a lot of stuff.
~
'mud

That 'water' would be the best description God could render to an eighty year old man.....who in no way would know hydrogen or the fusion to form light.

 

[`mud]

There was already water when the "creation" started.
Let's see-----One atom of Hydrogen plus another atom of Hydogen and then add an atom of Oxygen and provide a lot of heat, a whole lot of heat in the way of Hydrene in flame to produce water. Well damn that's where the water came from, who heated up the H and the O, before the creation ?
Now I'm right back where I started, what created the water that was already there, or did Genesis have it wrong ?
Hey....someone fill me in !
~
And I'm only 76 !
~
'mud

 

[Thief]

There was already water when the "creation" started.
Let's see-----One atom of Hydrogen plus another atom of Hydogen and then add an atom of Oxygen and provide a lot of heat, a whole lot of heat in the way of Hydrene in flame to produce water. Well damn that's where the water came from, who heated up the H and the O, before the creation ?
Now I'm right back where I started, what created the water that was already there, or did Genesis have it wrong ?
Hey....someone fill me in !
~
And I'm only 76 !
~
'mud

Not quite....let's keep it simple.
To say...I AM!...you might want some substance of 'proof'.
The simplest of things would be an expansion of 'stuff'.
Followed by a lengthy cooling period....
Then the element begins to 'gel'.
"Let there be light!".....would be that first fusion of the first element.

For 76, you jump too far too fast!......slow down!

 

[`mud]

And then the 'creation' ?
Nahhhhhh, doesn't get it !
~
'mud

 

[Thief]

More like your own signature.

 

[`mud]

Gee Thief, I don't think that I ever chose to insult your signature.
And...I've given some frugies for when you make a little sense,
or I intended to, I'll have to check that out.
Now you insult my abbreviation of the curmudgeon form of my name.
That's what " 'mud" is short for, but you seem to be a little tiffed with the meaning.
I always wondered what the Thief meant, never asked, but I will now.
I have to guess that it means to steal someone's beliefs, or there soul,
I doubt that you could steal their minds, that would be a stretch, but you certainly could use a new one.
Anyway...enough of getting ornery, I will leave your name alone if you will leave mine alone.
Nice chatting with you, but I except to read a rebuttal, and it can end there !
~
'mud (curmudgeon)also known as chermud

 

[idav]

There was already water when the "creation" started.
Let's see-----One atom of Hydrocan plus another atom of Hydogen and then add an atom of Oxygen and provide a lot of heat, a whole lot of heat in the way of Hydrene in flame to produce water. Well damn that's where the water came from, who heated up the H and the O, before the creation ?
Now I'm right back where I started, what created the water that was already there, or did Genesis have it wrong ?
Hey....someone fill me in !
~
And I'm only 76 !
~
'mud

The evolution of the early universe gave rise to those first elements and then every element and chemical coming from that. We can see the complexity came over time. As hydrogen is one of the most abundant elements in the universe, water is an abundant molecule.