Singularity as God

[`mud]

hey Idav,
I think you started this thread, or am I mistaken?
Now...in respect to the 'singularity as God' being the foremost in importance here,
and the 'creation' of everything in the universe, and the 'creation' coming after the advent of 'water',
or H or H2 or O and on and on, did your 'God' create the singularity ? Or...did the singularity create 'God' ?
Now...same old same old...is the singularity the cause of water, before the 'creation' or after ?
Asked in a different way...was the big bang before "God's Creation" ? Or did 'God' cause the big bang ?
Another approach, what caused the void that the singularity existed within, was 'God' within the singularity ?
And on and on......what is outside of infinity, the measurement, not the math.
~
OK I'm done for now.
~
nuff stuff
'mud

 

[idav]

hey Idav,
I think you started this thread, or am I mistaken?
Now...in respect to the 'singularity as God' being the foremost in importance here,
and the 'creation' of everything in the universe, and the 'creation' coming after the advent of 'water',
or H or H2 or O and on and on, did your 'God' create the singularity ? Or...did the singularity create 'God' ?
Now...same old same old...is the singularity the cause of water, before the 'creation' or after ?
Asked in a different way...was the big bang before "God's Creation" ? Or did 'God' cause the big bang ?
Another approach, what caused the void that the singularity existed within, was 'God' within the singularity ?
And on and on......what is outside of infinity, the measurement, not the math.
~
OK I'm done for now.
~
nuff stuff
'mud

I don't think anyone knows how or what set the things in motion. Any god should have wanted to exist, that's tricky for us but less so in the state ehere they say physics breaks down in the singularity.

 

[`mud]

hey Idav,
In that post you were saying that "Any god should have wanted to exist" !
I see you still give that, or 'any', god the ability to make decisions of whether or not to exist.
How does one mix omnipresence with physics, how does an entity that is without presence make decisions of any kind.
I would think that if there were any 'gods' in the precast, that the singularity would exclude it, it wouldn't be plasma.
Does this occurrance of the 'gods' reject the absence of gravity or use it ? Does the plasma have gravity of it's own ?
And once again, how does anything or anyone decide whether or not to escape the breakdown that would occur in the inflation ?
I'm not convinced that there ever was a singular big bang,
there were trillions upon trillions of them,
ever stopping, often beginning, one after another, after another.
And no 'gods'.
~
But I'm quite a nutcase, so make me no mind !
~
'mud

 

[gnostic]

The evolution of the early universe gave rise to those first elements and then every element and chemical coming from that. We can see the complexity came over time. As hydrogen is one of the most abundant elements in the universe, water is an abundant molecule.

Except there were no water molecule existing anywhere between the time hydrogen element first form and the birth of the first stars, in the early universe, because there were no oxygen yet, to bond with hydrogen atoms to form water.

The heaviest elements in the early universe before the first stars, were lithium element.

 

[Thief]

Gee Thief, I don't think that I ever chose to insult your signature.
And...I've given some frugies for when you make a little sense,
or I intended to, I'll have to check that out.
Now you insult my abbreviation of the curmudgeon form of my name.
That's what " 'mud" is short for, but you seem to be a little tiffed with the meaning.
I always wondered what the Thief meant, never asked, but I will now.
I have to guess that it means to steal someone's beliefs, or there soul,
I doubt that you could steal their minds, that would be a stretch, but you certainly could use a new one.
Anyway...enough of getting ornery, I will leave your name alone if you will leave mine alone.
Nice chatting with you, but I except to read a rebuttal, and it can end there !
~
'mud (curmudgeon)also known as chermud

I kinda thought your signature was a good description of the 'beginning'.
Was unaware of your more personal attachment.

As for being a Thief......yeah....in many ways.
In forum of religion, I steal the plea of ignorance from my fellow man.
Having heard "better things", no one stands before heaven and reports he wasn't told.

 

[Thief]

Except there were no water molecule existing anywhere between the time hydrogen element first form and the birth of the first stars, in the early universe, because there were no oxygen yet, to bond with hydrogen atoms to form water.

The heaviest elements in the early universe before the first stars, were lithium element.

Hence the description rendered to Moses.
You can't tell Moses......hydrogen and fusion...let there be light.
He won't get it.
Even a close item he is familiar (water) with will leave him in awe.

 

[gnostic]

It doesn't matter if Moses didn't understand water molecules are hydrogen and oxygen atoms. This subject is about the singularity, and there were no water whatsoever in the singularity, and there were no water anywhere in the early universe when stars were formed.

In Genesis 1:1-2, it clearly stated Earth was created, and it was filled with water.

In Earth science, Earth was nothing more than molten planet, whatever atmosphere it had 4.54 billion years ago, there were no oxygen and there certainly were no waters, especially no endless ocean ("face of the deep" and "face of the waters"), which Genesis 1:2 seemed to indicate there were water at Earth's creation:

2 the earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters.

Oxygen in the atmosphere didn't exist till about 2 billion years ago.

But the thread is still about the singularity, so no oxygen, no water.

 

[idav]

It doesn't matter if Moses didn't understand water molecules are hydrogen and oxygen atoms. This subject is about the singularity, and there were no water whatsoever in the singularity, and there were no water anywhere in the early universe when stars were formed.

In Genesis 1:1-2, it clearly stated Earth was created, and it was filled with water.

In Earth science, Earth was nothing more than molten planet, whatever atmosphere it had 4.54 billion years ago, there were no oxygen and there certainly were no waters, especially no endless ocean ("face of the deep" and "face of the waters"), which Genesis 1:2 seemed to indicate there were water at Earth's creation:



Oxygen in the atmosphere didn't exist till about 2 billion years ago.

But the thread is still about the singularity, so no oxygen, no water.

Thats good and all but I dont need the bible to say (some being) god is powerful timeless, all present and responsible for existence.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

I'd say God must transcend the singularity to have created it..

 

[`mud]

hey Gnostic,
I'm ready to give up, how about you ??
~
'mud

 

[idav]

I'd say God must transcend the singularity to have created it..

What ever initial cause exists has to transcend itself to do that or a creator also needs a creator infinitely back.

 

[Thief]

What ever initial cause exists has to transcend itself to do that or a creator also needs a creator infinitely back.

And so....Spirit first....

 

[idav]

And so....Spirit first....

Then became existence.

 

[gnostic]

And so....Spirit first....

Oh, no!

Not this @&&%# BS again!

Then became existence.

Oh, please...don't encourage him.

Once he get started with this spirit-first crap, he won't write anything else...like a broken record player.

 

[gnostic]

hey Gnostic,
I'm ready to give up, how about you ??
~
'mud

If I have to put up with more of thief's constant prattle of "spirit, first", I just might put bullet in my brain.

 

[Thief]

[QUOTE='mud]hey Gnostic,
I'm ready to give up, how about you ??
~
'mud

If I have to put up with more of thief's constant prattle of "spirit, first", I just might put bullet in my brain. [/QUOTE]

I suppose that's one way to make up your mind.....

 

[Guy Threepwood]

And so....Spirit first....

Yes, spirit, consciousness,- the purpose and will to create. Creative intelligence is the only thing that can really transcend nature is it not? It can create what nature alone never can

 

[Thief]

Yes, spirit, consciousness,- the purpose and will to create. Creative intelligence is the only thing that can really transcend nature is it not? It can create what nature alone never can

And maybe some day...the participants here will take that idea and use it as cornerstone.

 

[gnostic]

Yes, spirit, consciousness,- the purpose and will to create. Creative intelligence is the only thing that can really transcend nature is it not? It can create what nature alone never can

Except that I don't see any creative intelligence outside this world.

The creative intelligence of man (and woman) can be seen in art and architecture, in music and literature, and in science. Nothing amaze me more than the human achievements.

And I certainly don't see any "spirit", intelligence or otherwise, being involved in the singularity or the formation of the early universe.

That you think can see a (creative) spirit being involved in creation of the universe, is nothing more than wishful thinking.

 

[Thief]

I see the form of creation as evidence of intelligence.
I do not see substance as 'self' creative.

Perhaps a lengthy meditation with location as a focus.