Sixteen Crazy But Curious Questions About Enlightened People!

[sandandfoam]

I don't think I can believe in the idea of an enlightened person.

I reckon if there were such an exotic creature I would find them really annoying.

 

[Sunstone]

I reckon if there were such an exotic creature I would find them really annoying.

Good to see you! What do you think would likely be annoying about them?

 

[sandandfoam]

Good to see you!

Good to see you too

What do you think would likely be annoying about them?
+

Their lack of angst.

 

[Aquitaine]

What the Hell is an "Enlightened" person?

 

[Sunstone]

...my idea of an enlightened person is sort of like a ghost - they put themselves aside of the order of things at the best they can.

I love that metaphor! Ghosts! But I'm unclear what you mean by "the order of things"? Care to elaborate?

In so far as I might understand you, I agree they would tend to be "ghosts". I would expect them to avoid "announcing" themselves unless they had a reason to do so that they thought compelling.

An enlightened person probably views most casual people as the same or similar in a sense.

Thanks! I don't think I've heard that take on it before now. Would you think an enlightened person likely to idly compare, say, John's and Susan's athletic abilities in a casual conversation?

No, there's nothing interesting to an enlightened person; while everything is pretty, everything is also revealed.

So, an enlightened person is likely to be bored because they've "seen it all so many times before"? Or is there some other reason for their boredom?

Probably, because I was kind of wondering why only that one question said to make a guess and I am not enlightened.

I'm also not enlightened, and I think I might have noticed that one question too.

 

[Sunstone]

Their lack of angst.

Your off-beat way of seeing things, Steven, so often fascinates me. It can be as stimulating as a cooling breeze on a warm day. Thanks!

 

[Sunstone]

What the Hell is an "Enlightened" person?

That question itself interests me, Aquitaine. So, too, do people's answers to it. Perhaps especially, the variety of ways in which people answer it. Do those questions at all interest youl?

 

[Aquitaine]

That question itself interests me, Aquitaine. So, too, do people's answers to it. Perhaps especially, the variety of ways in which people answer it. Do those questions at all interest youl?

I kind of think the concept is a bit odd, especially if people self-identify as "Enlightened". A bit like someone considering themselves a totally awesome person!

Ironically, if such people did exist then they certainly would not label themselves as "Enlightened" in the sense of "The most intelligent of people are the ones who realize how blind and ignorant they themselves are".








I'm Enlightened btw.

 

[Sunstone]

I kind of think the concept is a bit odd, especially if people self-identify as "Enlightened". A bit like someone considering themselves a totally awesome person!

Suppose some things happened to convince an enlightened person that he or she was enlightened. If I understand you, you would find it unlikely that he or she took pride in discovering themselves enlightened?

"The most intelligent of people are the ones who realize how blind and ignorant they themselves are".

Do you think an enlightened person likely to compare themselves to others? Specifically, would he or she likely spend much time thinking of themselves as blind and ignorant to more, less, or about the same degree as many other people?

I'm Enlightened btw.

 

[Aquitaine]

Suppose some things happened to convince an enlightened person that he or she was enlightened. If I understand you, you would find it unlikely that he or she took pride in discovering themselves enlightened?

Pretty much. Arrogance and inflated Ego are qualities that I would not attribute to an "Enlightened" person. Not that I necessarily believe in the concept.

Do you think an enlightened person likely to compare themselves to others? Specifically, would he or she likely spend much time thinking of themselves as blind and ignorant to more, less, or about the same degree as many other people?

They'd probably be more critical of themselves; dismantling their own Egos and the like. Trying to be a bit more open-minded and objective with perceptions, including their own impact on others.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Do you think enlightened people likely see the world and themselves in fundamentally similar ways?

I suppose it varies with each enlightened person and depends on what specific way(s) they are enlightened. I think viewing enlightenment as homogenous probably negates any meaningful definition of enlightenment.

 

[Sunstone]

I suppose it varies with each enlightened person and depends on what specific way(s) they are enlightened. I think viewing enlightenment as homogenous probably negates any meaningful definition of enlightenment.

Thanks! I think I understand your position, and I believe it would be fruitless for me to argue against it, but please humor me while I run an idea by you. Suppose you were to meet a dozen enlightened people from various cultures and with various backgrounds. Do you think it's possible -- not necessarily likely in this case, but merely possible to some still significant degree -- that you would find them in some non-trivial ways alike, but in many or most trivial ways unalike? Or do you think that scenario is for one reason or another so unlikely as to be fairly close to impossible? Put a bit differently, do you think there's a controlling reason why enlightened people would not be fundamentally similar?

For instance, Kilgore, let's arbitrarily define a "non-trivial" attribute as 'tending not to waste things", and let's define a "trivial" attribute as "an individual's favorite color".

 

[BSM1]

Why "absolutely", if you don't mind my asking?

Just because you're enlightened doesn't mean you have to give up catchup. Or mustard. Or pickles. Or living.

As for neat and tiddy, I feel that's relative. But I think most enlightened people would have at least a clear path through the entire house.

 

[Valjean]

Just out of curiosity, here are sixteen off-beat, crazy questions about what an enlightened person might do. Feel free to explain your answers because that might start a discussion.

OK, I'll play -- but from an Eastern perspective rather than the "enlightened one as wise person" point of view -- already well explored.
So from a Vedantic perspective:

(1) Do you think an enlightened person would likely express contempt for people who were behaving foolishly?

A fully enlightened person would perceive foolish people as self. Having transcended the illusion of diversity, subject-object or self vs non-self, he would be those foolish people as much as he would be the body he'd previously inhabited.

An enlightened person, having transcended time, would be experiencing the entirety of the Cosmic Film Strip, from the "creation" of the Universe to entropic homogeneity, all simultaneously. The foolish people in frame 10 x 10^100 would have always been there, in that frame, being foolish, and always would be.
The Universe is timeless, unmoving and unchanging.

(2) Does it make sense to you that an enlightened person would likely tell people he or she was enlightened?

LOL -- The enlightened person would be telling it to himself!
That said, we need to distinguish the enlightened person from the previous body of the enlightened person. The body will likely continue on as usual, on auto-pilot, behaving as it always had. If the body had been a braggart or narcissist, it would likely continue as such.

(3) If an enlightened person saw a bit of trash on the sidewalk, and was not pressed for time, would he or she likely pick it up to throw in the trash bin? What's your best guess?

If you read of a spilled glass of milk in a novel, would you feel the need to clean it up? to rewrite the scene? Of course not -- it's part of the story, and it's not real. It's only a novel.
To an enlightened person, a bit of trash on the street is just part of the story, and it's not Real. It's only an illusion.

That said, If the incarnation from which the enlightenment expanded had been socially responsible it would probably pick up the refuse. If it had been a litterbug it might toss down some more.
A body performs its dharma. If one's role is saint, the body will appear to observers to behave as a saint. If Thug, the body will perform its role of thug.
Expanded awareness doesn't remove a body's tendency to continue in its dharma -- its life-script.

(4) If you happened to be speaking to an enlightened person, do you think he or she would likely pay unusually close attention to what you were saying?

Being both the speaker and hearer, and being 'unstuck' in time, the enlightened person would have been both speaking and hearing that particular communication forever.

(5) Would an enlightened person likely make casual or idle comparisons between one person and another?

(6) Would an enlightened person likely make you feel he or she thought you were unique or special?

To unenlightened observers, the body from which the enlightenment expanded could be expected to behave as attentively or politely as it was 'previous' to its cosmic consciousness.
Again, enlightenment doesn't necessarily change the outward appearance or behavior of the enlightened one.

(7) Would an enlightened person likely be curious about you?

A fully enlightened person would be you; would have experienced the film-loop of your life, birth to death, a million times; would be running it continuously, in fact.

What use curiosity to the omniscient?

(8) Would an enlightened person's home likely be clean and tidy?

(9) Do you think an enlightened person would usually or habitually eat his or her food with condiments?

(10) Would an enlightened person likely jump or start if you made a sudden noise behind him or her?

(11) Would an enlightened person likely notice if he or she were in a large room and a door was very quietly opened at the far end of the room?

(12) Would an enlightened person likely be bored?

(13) Would an enlightened person likely masturbate?

(14) If an enlightened person thanked you for complimenting them would they likely thank you because the compliment was important to them or because it was important to you?

(15) Would an enlightened person likely be curious about the fact that only one of these questions explicitly asks the reader to make a guess?

Again, the bodies continue on auto-pilot. No reason to expect any change in previous behavior just because no-one's home.

(16) Would an enlightened person likely idealize enlightened people?

An enlightened person, being one with everything, would realize there was only a single consciousness in the universe; only one "enlightened person."

Have fun! And please don't take these questions too seriously!

 

[Sunstone]

OK, I'll play -- but from an Eastern perspective rather than the "enlightened one as wise person" point of view -- already well explored.
So from a Vedantic perspective:

Thanks, Sey! I'm very glad you decided to play along by offering this perspective.

I'm curious whether you've met or know an enlightened person or persons?

 

[Vinayaka]

Just out of curiosity, here are sixteen off-beat, crazy questions about what an enlightened person might do. Feel free to explain your answers because that might start a discussion.

I'll give this a shot, but not from the Vedantic perspective, but rather from a traditional and orthodox school. The definition of enlightenment would be nirvikalpa samadhi, or in English, Self-realisation. In orthodox schools, it is beyond time,form, and space, and can only be 'obtained' through intense meditation and celibacy, whereby all karmas are burned. A Guru is an absolute must to attain this state. This differs substantially from previous definitions here.

(1) Do you think an enlightened person would likely express contempt for people who were behaving foolishly?

Never. They would understand it as a stage all souls go through.

(2) Does it make sense to you that an enlightened person would likely tell people he or she was enlightened?

Never. That's an endorsement others would notice, and put on the individual.

(3) If an enlightened person saw a bit of trash on the sidewalk, and was not pressed for time, would he or she likely pick it up to throw in the trash bin? What's your best guess?

Probably, if they noticed.

(4) If you happened to be speaking to an enlightened person, do you think he or she would likely pay unusually close attention to what you were saying?

Absolutely, and if the degree of accompanying siddhis was highly developed, you wouldn't even have to verbalise the question. This would only happen if the enlightened person was in a relaxed mood, as most take great pains to hide such things.

(5) Would an enlightened person likely make casual or idle comparisons between one person and another?

Never, unless it was useful to a student, or disciple. It would be rare.

(6) Would an enlightened person likely make you feel he or she thought you were unique or special?

Definitely.

(7) Would an enlightened person likely be curious about you?

Yes, but not in a normal sort of way. They'd be looking at your soul, not the ego/small I you.

(8) Would an enlightened person's home likely be clean and tidy?

It might be a cave, or no home at all, as said being could be a wanderer. The home would be simple, if it was in an ashram or mutt, it would be a very basic room.

(9) Do you think an enlightened person would usually or habitually eat his or her food with condiments?

It wouldn't matter. Sometimes. Sometimes not. Food wouldn't be much of a concern. They could easily skip meals, for instance, might not even notice.

(10) Would an enlightened person likely jump or start if you made a sudden noise behind him or her?

Probably not, but it might depend on where they were functioning at that moment. It can be dangerous to awaken someone from deep samadhi.

(11) Would an enlightened person likely notice if he or she were in a large room and a door was very quietly opened at the far end of the room?

Yes.

(12) Would an enlightened person likely be bored?

Never, Apparently the inside is quite exciting. I've heard it compared to walking a tightrope.

(13) Would an enlightened person likely masturbate?

Never, as per my definition. Well beyond base instincts.

(14) If an enlightened person thanked you for complimenting them would they likely thank you because the compliment was important to them or because it was important to you?

Neither generally, but perhaps. Generally enlightened people have tact and are polite, but there would be no attachment to it.

(15) Would an enlightened person likely be curious about the fact that only one of these questions explicitly asks the reader to make a guess?

No.

(16) Would an enlightened person likely idealize enlightened people?

They would recognise one, and acknowledge and respect their own teacher.

Have fun! And please don't take these questions too seriously!

Sorry, I don't know how to use multiquote. As with the topic at hand, I'm a long ways away.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Thanks! I think I understand your position, and I believe it would be fruitless for me to argue against it, but please humor me while I run an idea by you. Suppose you were to meet a dozen enlightened people from various cultures and with various backgrounds. Do you think it's possible -- not necessarily likely in this case, but merely possible to some still significant degree -- that you would find them in some non-trivial ways alike, but in many or most trivial ways unalike? Or do you think that scenario is for one reason or another so unlikely as to be fairly close to impossible? Put a bit differently, do you think there's a controlling reason why enlightened people would not be fundamentally similar?

For instance, Kilgore, let's arbitrarily define a "non-trivial" attribute as 'tending not to waste things", and let's define a "trivial" attribute as "an individual's favorite color".

I suppose it depends on whether one is viewing "enlightenment" as an archetypal collection of traits, or as some type of state-of-mind/perspective that one realizes/achieves.

I think many people, whether they realize it or not, view it the first way. The image of an "enlightened" person means a set of traits (many trivial or non-trivial) which combine to form an archetypal (or mythologized) profile of what they have learned to define as an "enlightened" person. The problem with this is that it amounts to little more than a tautology - someone is enlightened because they have the traits of someone who is enlightened.

If one is viewing "enlightenment" not as a specific archetype, or compendium of traits, but rather as a particular mindset, perspective, or state, then the problems are different. First, necessarily, if one isn't enlightened themselves, then determining exactly what the state-of-mind of an enlightened person is, is difficult at best, and likely impossible. So, definitions of enlightenment will necessarily be somewhat vague and hazy.

Also, it is somewhat implied that enlightenment is a state you "achieve," as though you suddenly pass a threshhold, and from then on you are an "enlightened person." To me, it seems that any state of meaningful enlightenment would necessarily include the ability to change, grow, and modify your views and insights. This being the case, we can conclude that among various enlightened people, there would be a whole range of variations. Basically, there wouldn't be a single, fixed, unchangable state of what enlightenement would entail or include. Further, this would imply the likelihood of there being different paths, attitudes, personalities, perspectives, and mindsets that could lead different people to enlightenment in the first place. So, in conclusion, although there may be common non-trivial traits among various enlightened people, I don't think it could be reasonably assumed that this would have to be the case.

At the end of the day, I think as archetypes are built up over time, it becomes difficult for people to separate this mythologized image from the actuality of human experience and behavior.

 

[Valjean]

How would I know?
I've met the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who was reputed to be enlightened, but I could see no halo.

 

[sojourner]

Just out of curiosity, here are sixteen off-beat, crazy questions about what an enlightened person might do. Feel free to explain your answers because that might start a discussion.

(1) Do you think an enlightened person would likely express contempt for people who were behaving foolishly?

(2) Does it make sense to you that an enlightened person would likely tell people he or she was enlightened?

(3) If an enlightened person saw a bit of trash on the sidewalk, and was not pressed for time, would he or she likely pick it up to throw in the trash bin? What's your best guess?

(4) If you happened to be speaking to an enlightened person, do you think he or she would likely pay unusually close attention to what you were saying?

(5) Would an enlightened person likely make casual or idle comparisons between one person and another?

(6) Would an enlightened person likely make you feel he or she thought you were unique or special?

(7) Would an enlightened person likely be curious about you?

(8) Would an enlightened person's home likely be clean and tidy?

(9) Do you think an enlightened person would usually or habitually eat his or her food with condiments?

(10) Would an enlightened person likely jump or start if you made a sudden noise behind him or her?

(11) Would an enlightened person likely notice if he or she were in a large room and a door was very quietly opened at the far end of the room?

(12) Would an enlightened person likely be bored?

(13) Would an enlightened person likely masturbate?

(14) If an enlightened person thanked you for complimenting them would they likely thank you because the compliment was important to them or because it was important to you?

(15) Would an enlightened person likely be curious about the fact that only one of these questions explicitly asks the reader to make a guess?

(16) Would an enlightened person likely idealize enlightened people?

Have fun! And please don't take these questions too seriously!

You Idiot! Here I was, tossing stuff off my bed onto the ketchup-encrusted plates lying on the floor, so I could masturbate to a Mary Baker Eddy fantasy. You see, I was feeling bored with myself, having been out all morning throwing my used gum wrappers around on the sidewalk. When your message came through, I about jumped out of my skin, because I really wasn't paying attention to what you were posting here. And all because I was engaged in the far more important task of reclosing my closet door, which kept opening without my noticing it.

You remind me of the way Angellous Evangellous sneaks up on people with inane stuff nobody cares enough to pay attention to. Why do you do that? Do you believe I think you're special in some way, or could care less about the boring minutae of this quagmire you seem to call your "life?"

But thanks, I guess, for the compliment of posting to me. (That ought to be worth a couple of frubals!)

Oh, and by the way, if you really must know, yes.

I'm enlightened.

 

[Sunstone]

You Idiot! Here I was, tossing stuff off my bed onto the ketchup-encrusted plates lying on the floor, so I could masturbate to a Mary Baker Eddy fantasy. You see, I was feeling bored with myself, having been out all morning throwing my used gum wrappers around on the sidewalk. When your message came through, I about jumped out of my skin, because I really wasn't paying attention to what you were posting here. And all because I was engaged in the far more important task of reclosing my closet door, which kept opening without my noticing it.

You remind me of the way Angellous Evangellous sneaks up on people with inane stuff nobody cares enough to pay attention to. Why do you do that? Do you believe I think you're special in some way, or could care less about the boring minutae of this quagmire you seem to call your "life?"

But thanks, I guess, for the compliment of posting to me. (That ought to be worth a couple of frubals!)

Oh, and by the way, if you really must know, yes.

I'm enlightened.

That's just what this thread needed! But I'm out of frubals. Help, somebody! Anybody! Please frubal this man!