SKIP THE FACE MASKS! ....... Ummmm........ HANG ON! U-TURN?

[MNoBody]

And therein lies the rub...

care to elaborate

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Common sense?

If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection. [emphasis added - JS]

And yet we now hear...

• Up to 25% of people with COVID-19 may not show symptoms
• Experts tell White House coronavirus can spread through talking or even just breathing

It seems to me that the only good reason not to where a mask is that they're in short supply and others need it more.

 

[HonestJoe]

I'm not attached to the word lie, mislead/withhold information/not give the full picture would have the same result of damaging credibility.

Maybe you should be clearer to avoid damaging your credibility.

You said "Alternatively, it might have reduced the panic buying of masks, making them unavailable to those who needed them to do their vital jobs". If that is the reason, then say it.

I saw official statements saying exactly that (mostly in the UK but internationally too). You've still presented nothing supporting the idea that any official statements were misleading, over secondary reporting or individual understanding of them being flawed.

When you say "there is no evidence masks protect people who are not sick", yet tell people who are caring for sick people to wear masks, doesn't that strike you as a bit odd?

Well first, you've put that in quotes but you've still not identified who actually said it. That statement alone would indeed be incorrect but in wider context may not be. This kind of debate is exactly why the messaging put out to the public has to be simple, even if that involves brushing over technical complications and exceptions. The aim is to encourage the public to behave in the safest manner possible.

The main reason medical staff wear surgical masks (the basic cloth ones) is to protect their patients they will be getting very close to from them and, alongside gloves and eye-wear, to protect from "splash" contamination when performing any kind of invasive procedure. It's an entirely different circumstance from the average person going to the supermarket under social distancing measures.

 

[Augustus]

care to elaborate or are enigmatic remarks your style?

Masks do indeed provide some form of protection.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

And yet we now hear...

• Up to 25% of people with COVID-19 may not show symptoms
• Experts tell White House coronavirus can spread through talking or even just breathing

It seems to me that the only good reason not to where a mask is that they're in short supply and others need it more.

What about both of them being fine?

Why one or the other (de ja vu)?

Not every comment needs to have its rival, you know.

 

[Augustus]

I saw official statements saying exactly that (mostly in the UK but internationally too). You've still presented nothing supporting the idea that any official statements were misleading, over secondary reporting or individual understanding of them being flawed.

"There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any potential benefit. In fact, there's some evidence to suggest the opposite in the misuse of wearing a mask properly or fitting it properly," Dr. Mike Ryan, executive director of the WHO health emergencies program, said at a media briefing in Geneva, Switzerland, on Monday.

"any potential benefit"? more evidence of harm?

Hmm...

Well first, you've put that in quotes but you've still not identified who actually said it.

It's on the WHO website that I linked to, video 1.

The main reason medical staff wear surgical masks (the basic cloth ones) is to protect their patients they will be getting very close to from them and, alongside gloves and eye-wear, to protect from "splash" contamination when performing any kind of invasive procedure. It's an entirely different circumstance from the average person going to the supermarket under social distancing measures.

If someone near you in a supermarket sneezed, would you prefer:

a) both you and they were wearing masks
b) neither you nor they were wearing masks

 

[MNoBody]

Masks do indeed provide some form of protection.

of course they do, which is why there are millions made and used every year by professional tradespeople....but they have always been incredibly expensive, since they are a "consumable", not intended for re-used.....and the ones worth having on site are pricey, the cheap ones fail or are ineffective in some way.....

 

[oldbadger]

No, Korea did an amazing job in halting transmission by large scale testing, contact tracing and isolating.

Standard surgical masks are designed to provide a barrier to splashes and droplets contacting the nose, mouth and respiratory tract, they are not designed to prevent the inhalation of small airborne particles in aerosol generating situations; such as sneezing, coughing and secondary aerosolisation from sufaces (studies on SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19 show that the virus persists on surfaces)

Face masks to be effective must tightly fit the user’s face, such as the N95 which must be used with eye protection. Aerosol virus can also enter the eyes infecting patients and are transmitted by touching infected surfaces.

To date there have not been any studies in the effectiveness standard surgical masks or home made masks in decreasing or preventing the transmission of coronaviruses in the general population.

Happy Birthday!
You write with authority. Are you a medic?

Let's see what the WHO decides about masks now...... It looks as if we could be told to all wear them when in shops, tubes, buses etc.

 

[oldbadger]

Also interesting why so many (esp. Americans) on RF believe WHO and Government blindly,
that they even called others stupid and calling it nonsense, if they questioned certain things.

One member said that any who would wear a mask ate idiots.

This new initiative could be a complete turn around.

Our postmen started wearing masks, ordinary face masks..... today!!!

 

[oldbadger]

That "you" wasn't meant personal but for all, just as the question wasn't meant as a personal question.

German lawmakers are discussing to make them obligatory.

"I'm not old. I just feel decepid, & have had a few too many birthdays." - Revoltingest
I'm generally of good physical health, walk barefoot 24/7/365 and it was the first flu in my life. Had fever and muscle pain for a few days.


I think I could get it but I'm everything but a social hub, so it's not really worth it.

I cycle ten miles each day to keep my lungs clear, they bung up if I don't, and I want to get me dose of covid when I feel great.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

And yet we now hear...

• Up to 25% of people with COVID-19 may not show symptoms
• Experts tell White House coronavirus can spread through talking or even just breathing

It seems to me that the only good reason not to where a mask is that they're in short supply and others need it more.

What about both of them being fine?

Why one or the other (de ja vu)?

Not every comment needs to have its rival, you know.

What the hell are you talking about? My (provisional) assumption is, in fact, that both are true.

The fact is that the WHO guidance is directed to the healthy, but you can't presume that you are healthy simply by how you feel. (reference #1) Furthermore, it now appears that COVID-19 can spread with greater ease than previously thought (reference #2) These presumed 'facts'. taken together, suggest that the WHO needs to re-evaluate their position.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What the hell are you talking about? My (provisional) assumption is, in fact, that both are true.

The fact is that the WHO guidance is directed to the healthy, but you can't presume that you are healthy simply by how you feel. (reference #1) Furthermore, it now appears that COVID-19 can spread with greater ease than previously thought (reference #2) These presumed 'facts'. taken together, suggest that the WHO needs to re-evaluate their position.

Okay....

 

[oldbadger]

What I can't help thinking is that fundamentalist muslim women must be thinking the joke's on the rest of us, now.

My wife looks quite enticing in a mask! In lingerie!
Ummmm..... errrrr..... too much info.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We started doing this. I see a bit more mask wearers.

 

[MNoBody]

this suit seems better than a mask
if they make masks mandatory, i'll rig one of these up to perambulate about in

 

[exchemist]

My wife looks quite enticing in a mask! In lingerie!
Ummmm..... errrrr..... too much info.

Yes, women with good eyes can look quite alluring, it must be said.

Arab women seem to devote quite a bit of attention to eye make up. Funny, that.

 

[oldbadger]

Alternatively, it might have reduced the panic buying of masks, making them unavailable to those who needed them to do their vital jobs and preventing those who failed to source any (which would be disproportionately the poor, old and vulnerable) unwilling to leave their home at all, even for important reasons like getting food or medical treatment. None of this is as simple as you'd like to imagine.

I do like simple, it is true.
Because the experts disagree with each other so much.

And if face masks were known to be useful for all, then to deceive the entire population would have been criminal, not clever. Our medical bosses could have told us how to make masks and just asked retail to withhold those needed for medics.

Simple is good. Complex is for dunces.

 

[oldbadger]

I was reading more more details on
Interim Guidance for the Use of Masks to Control Seasonal Influenza Virus Transmission | CDC. It's for the flu, but I haven't heard yet whether there are other ways to catch the virus that doesn't mirror other similar virus protection protocol.

We are waiting for WHO reports here.

Today our postmen are wearing masks for the first time.

 

[oldbadger]

Asians often wear 'pollution masks', so masks are more common in general and there is less resistance to wearing them. If it helps with pollution then of course it helps with virus kind of thing.

Westerners have to get over the the fact that they feel like a bit of a wanker wearing one in public, and this is compounded by people saying 'you don't need to wear a mask unless you are ill'.

Obviously, however, a mask helps prevent spread and the 'no mask' brigade are, at best, criminally negligent.

You put that so brilliantly.

My wife read your post and nearly peed!!!!

But you are so right about everything imo.

 

[Augustus]

of course they do, which is why there are millions made and used every year by professional tradespeople....but they have always been incredibly expensive, since they are a "consumable", not intended for re-used.....and the ones worth having on site are pricey, the cheap ones fail or are ineffective in some way.....

Imperfect =/= ineffective