Slavery (Women) and Islam

[InvestigateTruth]

Why Allah here supports slavery of women.

In my view Allah does not support slavery. See at the time, there was war going on, because the Muslims at the time of Muhammad had to defend against those who attacked ar planed to attack muslims. As a result, their wives and daughters were left without their husbands, as their husbands were killed in war. So, then those women became the captives of war. So, Now in that situation, Allah allowed Muhammad to marry them, and bring them under His shalter to protect them.

the Previous verse make this clear I think:

"O PROPHET! Behold, We have made lawful to thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowers, as well as those whom thy right hand has come to possess from among the captives of war whom God has bestowed upon thee. And [We have made lawful to thee] the daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and the daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who have migrated with thee [to Yathrib]; and any believing woman who offers herself freely to the Prophet and whom the Prophet might be willing to wed: [this latter being but] a privilege for thee, and not for other believers - [seeing that] We have already made known what We have enjoined upon them with regard to their wives and those whom their right hands may possess. [And] in order that thou be not burdened with [undue] anxiety - for God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace" –al-Ahzab 33:50

 

[Debater Slayer]

***Mod Post***

Please keep all forum rules in mind while posting, especially Rule 1 and Rule 3:

1. Personal comments about Members and Staff
Personal attacks, and/or name-calling are strictly prohibited on the forums. Speaking or referring to a member in the third person, ie "calling them out" will also be considered a personal attack. Critique each other's ideas all you want, but under no circumstances personally attack each other or the staff.

3. Trolling and Bullying
We recognize three areas of unacceptable trolling:
1)Posts that are deliberately inflammatory in order to provoke a vehement response from other users. This includes both verbal statements and images. Images that are likely to cause offense based on religious objections (e.g. depictions of Muhammad or Baha'u'llah) or the sensitive nature of what is depicted (e.g. graphic photos of violence) should be put in appropriately-labeled spoiler tags so that the viewer has freedom to view the image or not. Such images are still subject to normal forum rules and may be moderated depending on their contents.
2)Posts that target a person or group by following them around the forums to attack them. This is Bullying. Deliberately altering the words of another member by intentionally changing the meaning when you use the quote feature is considered a form of bullying. The ONLY acceptable alteration of a quotation from another member is to remove portions that are not relevant or to alter formatting for emphasis.
3)Posts that are adjudged to fit the following profile: "While questioning and challenging other beliefs is appropriate in the debates forums, blatant misrepresentation or harassment of other beliefs will not be tolerated."

 

[Sumit]

We don't have women slavery in muslim's countries,so solve the slavery in India instead of your worries about the coming slavery in the Islamic countries.

Try to see the causes of prostitution in India,maybe the quranic verses is one.

About 70% women involved in prostitution and slavery are muslims from Bangladesh and most of sex dealers are muslims. 3 months back a Muslim was arrested for that who brought muslim women from Bangladesh. How can we solve slavery when an Islamic scholar will preach slavery (Zakir Naik) from Quran in India. When I go to Uttar Pradesh I see muslims women in much worst condition (As 4 are allowed). Latest is a Muslim had 18 childrens and than he asked govt to provide him financial support to feed them.

Well I see it everytime when muslims can't defend Quran they try to change the subject.

 

[Sumit]

***mod post***

please keep all forum rules in mind while posting, especially rule 1 and rule 3:

​

sorry;

 

[Sumit]

In my view Allah does not support slavery. See at the time, there was war going on, because the Muslims at the time of Muhammad had to defend against those who attacked ar planed to attack muslims. As a result, their wives and daughters were left without their husbands, as their husbands were killed in war. So, then those women became the captives of war. So, Now in that situation, Allah allowed Muhammad to marry them, and bring them under His shalter to protect them.

the Previous verse make this clear I think:

"O PROPHET! Behold, We have made lawful to thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowers, as well as those whom thy right hand has come to possess from among the captives of war whom God has bestowed upon thee. And [We have made lawful to thee] the daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and the daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who have migrated with thee [to Yathrib]; and any believing woman who offers herself freely to the Prophet and whom the Prophet might be willing to wed: [this latter being but] a privilege for thee, and not for other believers - [seeing that] We have already made known what We have enjoined upon them with regard to their wives and those whom their right hands may possess. [And] in order that thou be not burdened with [undue] anxiety - for God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace" –al-Ahzab 33:50

Please I provided you a verse from quran and I want explanation from Quran. This verse did not ask for the permission of women slave. So it would be better if someone clarifies it.

 

[Sumit]

the Previous verse make this clear I think:

"O PROPHET! Behold, We have made lawful to thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowers, as well as those whom thy right hand has come to possess from among the captives of war whom God has bestowed upon thee. And [We have made lawful to thee] the daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and the daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who have migrated with thee [to Yathrib]; and any believing woman who offers herself freely to the Prophet and whom the Prophet might be willing to wed: [this latter being but] a privilege for thee, and not for other believers - [seeing that] We have already made known what We have enjoined upon them with regard to their wives and those whom their right hands may possess. [And] in order that thou be not burdened with [undue] anxiety - for God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace" –al-Ahzab 33:50

Even this verse do not asks for permission of slave women, it only asks for permission of believer (Muslimah) who offer her.

 

[FearGod]

About 70% women involved in prostitution and slavery are muslims from Bangladesh and most of sex dealers are muslims. 3 months back a Muslim was arrested for that who brought muslim women from Bangladesh. How can we solve slavery when an Islamic scholar will preach slavery (Zakir Naik) from Quran in India. When I go to Uttar Pradesh I see muslims women in much worst condition (As 4 are allowed). Latest is a Muslim had 18 childrens and than he asked govt to provide him financial support to feed them.

Well I see it everytime when muslims can't defend Quran they try to change the subject.

What are your sources and references that 70% of muslims are prostitutes.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Please I provided you a verse from quran and I want explanation from Quran. This verse did not ask for the permission of women slave. So it would be better if someone clarifies it.

You are right. The verse does not appear to say: ask for the permission of women. However, this is how it seems to me:

From the verse that I posted, it seems that, only the Prophet has the right to take these women who were captive of war.
See this part:
"a privilege for thee, and not for other believers"
So, the verse that you posted is continuing giving instruction to Muhammad.

And in my view, the Wisdom is that, Muhammad is getting "control" over the situation. He is getting control over the Widowed woman, so, they don't fall in the hands of others to take advantage of them.
However, this relies on Faith. Because, the Prophet was a highly charachter Person. So, all these actions was not for Him to enjoy having so many women, but an act of Wisdom to take control over the situation. But ofcourse there is no evidence that the Prophet forced any of those Women to be with Him, if she did not want to. Is there?

 

[Sumit]

You are right. The verse does not appear to say: ask for the permission of women. However, this is how it seems to me:

From the verse that I posted, it seems that, only the Prophet has the right to take these women who were captive of war.
See this part:
"a privilege for thee, and not for other believers"
So, the verse that you posted is continuing giving instruction to Muhammad.

SO this verse only address Muhammad. But muslims claims that Quran is Universal and final revelation from Allah to mankind so why it still contains the verses that are only for Prophet Muhammad who died a long before and so these verses of Quran which address Prophet will they be no more valid for people today. It contradicts the Universal nature of book.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

SO this verse only address Muhammad. But muslims claims that Quran is Universal and final revelation from Allah to mankind so why it still contains the verses that are only for Prophet Muhammad who died a long before and so these verses of Quran which address Prophet will they be no more valid for people today. It contradicts the Universal nature of book.

Well, there were instructions regarding this for other believers too:

"And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves; if they are needy, Allah will make them free from want out of His grace; and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing." an-Nur 24:32



Anyways, I think, there are parts of the Quran that were instructions about how to deal with situations at the time of Prophet.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

It should have said "let their be no slave"

Well, the thing is that Slavery existed before Islam. But what Islam did was to give right to the slaves and protect them:

"And serve Allah. Ascribe no thing as partner unto Him. (Show) kindness unto parents, and unto near kindred, and orphans, and the needy, and unto the neighbour who is of kin (unto you) and the neighbour who is not of kin, and the fellow-traveller and the wayfarer and (the slaves) whom your right hands possess. Lo! Allah loveth not such as are proud and boastful," an-Nisa` 4:36

So, you are right, even to other believers the right was given to have slaves, but were asked them to be kind to them. However, Quran does not prohibit Slavory, because its time had not come yet, and humanity was not ready to accept that. But the Baha'is believe that the Revelations of God continues to come, and in this Age the Slavory is completely Prohibited in Baha'i Scriptures:

"It is forbidden you to trade in slaves, be they men or women. It is not for him who is himself a servant to buy another of God’s servants, and this hath been prohibited in His Holy Tablet. Thus, by His mercy, hath the commandment been recorded by the Pen of justice. Let no man exalt himself above another; all are but bondslaves before the Lord, and all exemplify the truth that there is none other God but Him. He, verily, is the All-Wise, Whose wisdom encompasseth all things." Kittab-i-Aqdas, paragraph 40

 

[FearGod]

SO this verse only address Muhammad. But muslims claims that Quran is Universal and final revelation from Allah to mankind so why it still contains the verses that are only for Prophet Muhammad who died a long before and so these verses of Quran which address Prophet will they be no more valid for people today. It contradicts the Universal nature of book.

Even if there is a permission then that won't mean that i should do it.

For example if there is a verse saying,coffee is permitted for you,then if i don't like coffee,should i drink it.

Another example about women,suppose i hate women,then should i marry women because i have permission to do so.

But in our world there is always poorness and there are always some men who love women and i showed you the problem in India about prostitution and AIDS plus rapes and do you think there is a quranic verse to cause such problems in India whereas we can see muslim countries are very strict regarding prositution which is illegal.

India isn't an islamic country and the reports show India as to be number 1 in slavery in the world.

So it is irrational to think that one verse will change the world.

Let be no slavery,then it is solved.

 

[Sumit]

Even if there is a permission then that won't mean that i should do it.

If quran permits than it means that you can.

But in our world there is always poorness and there are always some men who love women and i showed you the problem in India about prostitution and AIDS plus rapes and do you think there is a quranic verse to cause such problems in India whereas we can see muslim countries are very strict regarding prositution which is illegal.

India isn't an islamic country and the reports show India as to be number 1 in slavery in the world.

So it is irrational to think that one verse will change the world.

Let be no slavery,then it is solved.

I mostly see that when Muslims have no answers they try to justify the verse or divert the topic. Dear Feargod however this is not Indian debate section but Quranic debate section.

 

[Sumit]

However, Quran does not prohibit Slavory, because its time had not come yet, and humanity was not ready to accept that.

But the Baha'is believe that the Revelations of God continues to come, and in this Age the Slavory is completely Prohibited in Baha'i Scriptures

I have no Idea about Bahai religion (my ignorance). Which book Bahai follow??

 

[InvestigateTruth]

So it is irrational to think that one verse will change the world.

Maybe it is irrational to think one verse will make the world perfect. But definately each verse can change the world. Allah in Quran said "do not kill", He also said "do not steal". Many people still act opposite, but Allah said what the right thing is, and for those who listen and follow, the change is in them and the world.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I have no Idea about Bahai religion (my ignorance). Which book Bahai follow??

The Baha'is have nearly 200 volumes of scriptures. The most important Books are "Book of Certitude", "The Most Holy Book", "The Hidden Words", "Some Answered Questions", "Seven Valleys" and "Selected Writings of the Bab"

 

[FearGod]

Maybe it is irrational to think one verse will make the world perfect. But definately each verse can change the world. Allah in Quran said "do not kill", He also said "do not steal". Many people still act opposite, but Allah said what the right thing is, and for those who listen and follow, the change is in them and the world.

i aint surprised that you asked the same question as him because you are ignorant in the Islamic religion.

God asked to free slaves whenever it is possible.

God will not take you to task for a slip in your oaths; but He will take you to task for such bonds as you have made by oaths, whereof the expiation is to feed ten poor persons with the average of the food you serve to your families, or to clothe them, or to set free a slave; or if any finds not the means, let him fast for three days. That is the expiation of your oaths when you have sworn; but keep your oaths. So God makes clear to you His signs; haply you will be thankful. (5:89)

Prophet Mohammed PBUH also encouraged to free slaves whenever it is possible.

Narrated Abu Musa Al-Ash'ari: "The Prophet said, "Give food to the hungry, pay a visit to the sick and release (set free) the one in captivity (by paying his ransom)." (Bukhari,Volume 7, Book 65, Number 286)"

Narrated Abu Musa: The Prophet said, "Set free the captives and accept invitations." (Bukhari Volume 9, Book 89, Number 285)

Narrated Asma: "No doubt the [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Prophet ordered people to manumit slaves[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]during the solar eclipse. (Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 18, Number 163)[/FONT][/FONT]

Narrated Al-Ma'rur: At Ar-Rabadha I met Abu Dhar who was wearing a cloak, and his slave, too, was wearing a similar one. I asked about the reason for it. He replied, "I abused a person by calling his mother with bad names." The Prophet said to me, 'O Abu Dhar! Did you abuse him by calling his mother with bad names You still have some characteristics of ignorance. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Your slaves are your brothers[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] and Allah has put them under your command. So whoever has a brother under his command should feed him of what he eats and dress him of what he wears. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Do not ask them (slaves) to do things beyond their capacity (power) and if you do so, then help them.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] (Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 29) [/FONT][/FONT]

The problem that poorness is the main reason for slavery and if we help the poors and if we fear god then there is no need for a verse or a hadith for us to be good.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

God asked to free slaves whenever it is possible.
.

I didn't say God didn't ask. What I said He did not prohibit slavery in Quranic Revelation. For example, God prohibited drinking Wine. He prohibited Stealing, but He did not Prohibit Trades in Slavery in the Explicit way. So, eventhough you tried hard, but still the fact remains as it is.

 

[illykitty]

Well from what I read about this subject, the historical context is that slaves (both male and female) did not have any rights and were treated like dirt. They were brutalised, raped and couldn't do anything to gain their freedom.

What Islam did, was to gradually release slaves and give them more rights and freedom. For example, a slave's rights became that they had to be clothed, sheltered and fed. If the task that was asked to do was too hard, the master had to help. They could be released, which was a great deed and greatly rewarded by Allah.

Now when it comes to slave women, if they allowed their masters to sleep with them and became pregnant, she automatically had the same rights as a wife. Her child would be free, as he/she would gain the same status as the father and the woman, upon the master's death will be automatically free as well. I heard about inheritences too, but I'm not too sure, maybe someone who has more knowledge can clear it up.

Anyway, it was a gradual process. If Islam had given freedom right away, I doubt people would have followed it. You have to keep in mind how people back then were like... I mean imagine here only recently were slaves free, while back 1400 years ago it was suggested that they had rights! They must have thought the Prophet (pbuh) was mad!

I conclude saying that it probably wasn't meant to last forever but eventually free everyone through that system.

 

[FearGod]

Well from what I read about this subject, the historical context is that slaves (both male and female) did not have any rights and were treated like dirt. They were brutalised, raped and couldn't do anything to gain their freedom.

What Islam did, was to gradually release slaves and give them more rights and freedom. For example, a slave's rights became that they had to be clothed, sheltered and fed. If the task that was asked to do was too hard, the master had to help. They could be released, which was a great deed and greatly rewarded by Allah.

Now when it comes to slave women, if they allowed their masters to sleep with them and became pregnant, she automatically had the same rights as a wife. Her child would be free, as he/she would gain the same status as the father and the woman, upon the master's death will be automatically free as well. I heard about inheritences too, but I'm not too sure, maybe someone who has more knowledge can clear it up.

Anyway, it was a gradual process. If Islam had given freedom right away, I doubt people would have followed it. You have to keep in mind how people back then were like... I mean imagine here only recently were slaves free, while back 1400 years ago it was suggested that they had rights! They must have thought the Prophet (pbuh) was mad!

I conclude saying that it probably wasn't meant to last forever but eventually free everyone through that system.

Good explanation.

i may add that slaves are poor which means they need at least foods to eat and a resident to sleep.

Now if there is no escape for the slaves then at least you have to treat them as you treat yourself,so they have to eat as you do and to be treated well.

Allah knows better what was the best choice to keep the slaves to survive and gradually by helping the poor and improving the community then slaves will disappear forever and it did in most countries except in some poor countries such as the case which i meantioned in India.