Smoking Gun, Oh Atheists?

[Jeremiahcp]

We could agree that (in general) all have compassion, but for whom? How much?
When is it abandoned to express hatred & sadism?

Do you personally possess the singular objectively true morality?

"We could agree that (in general) all have compassion, but for whom? How much?
When is it abandoned to express hatred & sadism?"

I am so glad we could agree there is a core base there.

 

[Revoltingest]

"one finds no universal truth or morality."

I think you need to look harder at history. I like to focus on American history, and there does appear to be a progression there. Ofc, on both sides here, that is a subjective interpretation.

You know, I think with the right research this is something we could actually test if we gave it enough thought.

But, ya I reject your claim of total moral relativism, I think it is an incomplete model that leaves too much unexplained. I think there is more going on than just relative morality. You say a "response to their environment" but what dictates the nature of these responses? I find it very hard to believe that there is no innate component to human behavior. Your model leaves too many unanswered questions, and does not make much sense.

You can repeat it a few more times if you want, but I am moving on.

Questions left unanswered isn't a criticism at all.

How does "total moral relativism" differ from just "moral relativism".

 

[Revoltingest]

"We could agree that (in general) all have compassion, but for whom? How much?
When is it abandoned to express hatred & sadism?"

I am so glad we could agree there is a core base there.

I'm sure we'd agree on much.
But I don't have the truth or anything universal.

 

[ChristineM]

Really ? Was he a Russian communist ?

No, he wasn't a Christian. A person can call themselves a fencepost, that doesn't make them one.

Honey, Russia is a more religious country than America with 75% of the population being orthodox and a further 15% being made up of several other diverse religions, guess what, the vast majority are communist so your point is what?

Ill take the word of the Georgian orthodox faith on who was and who wasn't a member of the Georgian Orthodox faith over some forum jockey with a dodgy comprehension of Russian history any time.

Since when were you commissioned to be arbiter of who is and who isn't a christian?

 

[Alison Wonderland]

You are over reacting. My point was judging by stereotypes, not putting down atheists. Stalin said he was Christian, supposedly, OK, no prob, that is what he said, though he wasn't. I retract his name from my original post and insert Chairman Mao, he probably murdered more than Stalin. Feel better now ?

I wasn't responding to anything you wrote - I haven't even read anything you've written until now.

And I'm no atheist apologist but I find them far less obnoxious than adherents to the Abrahamic faiths.

 

[ChristineM]

You are over reacting. My point was judging by stereotypes, not putting down atheists. Stalin said he was Christian, supposedly, OK, no prob, that is what he said, though he wasn't. I retract his name from my original post and insert Chairman Mao, he probably murdered more than Stalin. Feel better now ?

Mao was raised a Taoist Buddhist, but dropped did faith in favour of nationalism

As for murdering, i know Stalin did not murder anyone, I'm pretty sure Mao didn't either. They were however top dog of countries in which genocides were commited and the buck must stop somewhere

 

[Simurgh]

Let m be just as clear as I possibly can be. First, Christianity is based upon the NT. It is not based upon the comments of any person, nor the social effects of any philosophy. All irrelevant. Christ made it abundantly clear that many would claim the name, but that few would be genuine. Christianity is about an individual persons relationship with God, and other people. It is not about building empires, political philosophy etc., etc. etc. So you are actually totally confusing the issue, no doubt innocently out of ignorance, but there it is. Don't hand me quotations from any person, unless you find them in the NT. All others mean nothing. As to the treatment of women, I would suggest that the equality of women was solely a Christian idea, that developed in a world where women worldwide were treated as chattel slaves. Misogyny is the hatred of women, find it commanded or supported in the NT, or drop the issue. For a Christian there is no other authority that applies, and the other chaff is just whistling in the dark.

OYG!!! equality of women is now a christian concept? when did that happen? why was no memo sent out to us females who are suffering education and job discrimination? if you disregard the OT and focus on the NT as the founding set of mythology for christianity, then you definitely have not read Paul's letters where he makes sure to praise the women who finance his trip and ministry and then lays into them to keep their mouths shut and tells them they are not fit to lead men.
and what is religion other than interpretation. the spanish for example would have taken exception to you telling them that xtianity is not about empire building when they subsumed xtianity into their identity and declared that to be spanish is to be catholic. Even today, Russians define russian nationality by belonging to the orthodox christian church. and you are really truly ignorant if you believe that xtians treated women any better than the rest of the world. well ok, your world might be really tiny, so i give you that. regardless, in the real world we know that of the monotheistic faiths Islam was the one that gave women legal rights that were not achieved by women in the rest of the monotheistic world until the 1900s.
yeah, and today if their were such a thing as xtians believing in the equality between the genders we would have equal pay for equal work and men would not legislate away our rights over our own bodies.
that kool-aid you are swilling might be a mighty fine drink for some of you followers of inanity, but there are women out there who don't like the flavor. therefore, while you make your condescending remarks about others and assume that xtians are by definition superior, you could read up on history first and then reconsider this statement you made " For a Christian there is no other authority that applies, and the other chaff is just whistling in the dark" . since you are clearly whistling in the dark. i have yet to meet a xtian who is actually willing and/or able to live a morally superior life. and i mean actually live it, not just talk a lot of crap and be nothing but a judgemental hypocrite who looks down on those who don't drink the kool-aid.

 

[shmogie]

OYG!!! equality of women is now a christian concept? when did that happen? why was no memo sent out to us females who are suffering education and job discrimination? if you disregard the OT and focus on the NT as the founding set of mythology for christianity, then you definitely have not read Paul's letters where he makes sure to praise the women who finance his trip and ministry and then lays into them to keep their mouths shut and tells them they are not fit to lead men.
and what is religion other than interpretation. the spanish for example would have taken exception to you telling them that xtianity is not about empire building when they subsumed xtianity into their identity and declared that to be spanish is to be catholic. Even today, Russians define russian nationality by belonging to the orthodox christian church. and you are really truly ignorant if you believe that xtians treated women any better than the rest of the world. well ok, your world might be really tiny, so i give you that. regardless, in the real world we know that of the monotheistic faiths Islam was the one that gave women legal rights that were not achieved by women in the rest of the monotheistic world until the 1900s.
yeah, and today if their were such a thing as xtians believing in the equality between the genders we would have equal pay for equal work and men would not legislate away our rights over our own bodies.
that kool-aid you are swilling might be a mighty fine drink for some of you followers of inanity, but there are women out there who don't like the flavor. therefore, while you make your condescending remarks about others and assume that xtians are by definition superior, you could read up on history first and then reconsider this statement you made " For a Christian there is no other authority that applies, and the other chaff is just whistling in the dark" . since you are clearly whistling in the dark. i have yet to meet a xtian who is actually willing and/or able to live a morally superior life. and i mean actually live it, not just talk a lot of crap and be nothing but a judgemental hypocrite who looks down on those who don't drink the kool-aid.

What an utter parcel of bitter gutted ignorant nonsense. You couldn't hit your butt with a hand full of sand. You truly have no idea of what you are trying to talk about. Go back to spray painting bathroom walls

 

[shmogie]

Mao was raised a Taoist Buddhist, but dropped did faith in favour of nationalism

As for murdering, i know Stalin did not murder anyone, I'm pretty sure Mao didn't either. They were however top dog of countries in which genocides were commited and the buck must stop somewhere[/QUOT Nationalism ? I guess that is a very weak word to describe his particular brand of rabid communism. In law, if you aid and empower murder, you are a murderer. Both stalin and mao murdered multiple millions of people

 

[Simurgh]

why don't you use your ever so vaunted scripture and prove me wrong? where am i being ignorant? what facts do you have to dispute that women are treated like lesser beings in your xtian world? only in secular countries--european ones, because we all know by now that the evangelical right wing nazis run the US by now, do women have a rights enshrined by law, xtianity has done nothing for women ever except berate them and tell them ohat they are subservient to men.
yeah, and you are a typical bible banger. when you have no facts to back you up, you attack those who disagree with you.

 

[shmogie]

Honey, Russia is a more religious country than America with 75% of the population being orthodox and a further 15% being made up of several other diverse religions, guess what, the vast majority are communist so your point is what?

Ill take the word of the Georgian orthodox faith on who was and who wasn't a member of the Georgian Orthodox faith over some forum jockey with a dodgy comprehension of Russian history any time.

Since when were you commissioned to be arbiter of who is and who isn't a christian?

Honey, Russia is a more religious country than America with 75% of the population being orthodox and a further 15% being made up of several other diverse religions, guess what, the vast majority are communist so your point is what?

Ill take the word of the Georgian orthodox faith on who was and who wasn't a member of the Georgian Orthodox faith over some forum jockey with a dodgy comprehension of Russian history any time.

Since when were you commissioned to be arbiter of who is and who isn't a christian?

I wasn't addressing Russia, nor the Orthodox faith, of which I have family. I was addressing the man of steel, Lenin's lacky, the man Kruschev had a very interesting rant about before the politburo. The man that made sure Trotsky was hacked up with a hatchet, the man who was directly responsible for the butchery of defenseless Polish officers and the decimation of his own officer corps by baseless purges, the man who fomented numerous pogroms against the Jews, you know, that man. . No, I am not the arbiter of who is a Christian. However, Christ was asked how to identify his followers,he said "by their fruit you shall know them". Stalin's fruit was blood, lies. paranoia, murder and terror. No, he wasn't a Christian. You are a rarity, a stalin apologist, is hitler part of your portfolio too ?

 

[shmogie]

why don't you use your ever so vaunted scripture and prove me wrong? where am i being ignorant? what facts do you have to dispute that women are treated like lesser beings in your xtian world? only in secular countries--european ones, because we all know by now that the evangelical right wing nazis run the US by now, do women have a rights enshrined by law, xtianity has done nothing for women ever except berate them and tell them ohat they are subservient to men.
yeah, and you are a typical bible banger. when you have no facts to back you up, you attack those who disagree with you.

Uh, the absence of fact is plainly obvious with your unhinged rants. I really can't take anyone seriously who spews a continuous stream of accusations, then not one scintilla of evidence to support them. In other words, you spew irrational, incomprehensible, imagined, piles of garbage. Don't waste my time if this is the best you can do, make accusations, support them, otherwise, get out of the way

 

[Simurgh]

I wasn't addressing Russia, nor the Orthodox faith, of which I have family. I was addressing the man of steel, Lenin's lacky, the man Kruschev had a very interesting rant about before the politburo. The man that made sure Trotsky was hacked up with a hatchet, the man who was directly responsible for the butchery of defenseless Polish officers and the decimation of his own officer corps by baseless purges, the man who fomented numerous pogroms against the Jews, you know, that man. . No, I am not the arbiter of who is a Christian. However, Christ was asked how to identify his followers,he said "by their fruit you shall know them". Stalin's fruit was blood, lies. paranoia, murder and terror. No, he wasn't a Christian. You are a rarity, a stalin apologist, is hitler part of your portfolio too ?

so here you are, never ever mentioning the millions of people tortured, murdered, and abused by xtians on their way to power. instead you focus on stalin, and use him to represent millions of atheists. he was a christian who studied to become a monk in the russian orthodox church until he realized that power can just as easily be attained through political and military might.
so do a bit of research before you go off into the usual rant about the evils of atheism. CM is not a stalin apologist, she merely tries to tell you that you are an ignorant self-declared expert on historical megalomaniacs of an xtian bent. hitler, too by the way often enough declared himself to be a true xtian.

 

[Simurgh]

Uh, the absence of fact is plainly obvious with your unhinged rants. I really can't take anyone seriously who spews a continuous stream of accusations, then not one scintilla of evidence to support them. In other words, you spew irrational, incomprehensible, imagined, piles of garbage. Don't waste my time if this is the best you can do, make accusations, support them, otherwise, get out of the way

look in the mirror.

 

[shmogie]

why don't you use your ever so vaunted scripture and prove me wrong? where am i being ignorant? what facts do you have to dispute that women are treated like lesser beings in your xtian world? only in secular countries--european ones, because we all know by now that the evangelical right wing nazis run the US by now, do women have a rights enshrined by law, xtianity has done nothing for women ever except berate them and tell them ohat they are subservient to men.
yeah, and you are a typical bible banger. when you have no facts to back you up, you attack those who disagree with you.

I love it when someone with waaayy too many birds on their antenna proclaims "we all know". How do you conclude you know what everyrbody knows ? How can you proclaim what anybody knows ? You know what you think you know, and apparently you don't know much, sad, I know

 

[Simurgh]

true to form you attack me. and yet, you have absolutely no way of refuting what i said. if you did, you would be able to cite it and not just try to insult me as if that proved anything beside the fact that you have no valid argument to make when it comes to the misogyny of xtianity, the cruelty of its practitioners in their quest for riches and power, and let's not even mention morality. no xtian i know can claim moral superiority for the simple fact that if you simply do something because you fear the wrath of your god, then that is not considered acting moral in any way..

 

[shmogie]

true to form you attack me. and yet, you have absolutely no way of refuting what i said. if you did, you would be able to cite it and not just try to insult me as if that proved anything beside the fact that you have no valid argument to make when it comes to the misogyny of xtianity, the cruelty of its practitioners in their quest for riches and power, and let's not even mention morality. no xtian i know can claim moral superiority for the simple fact that if you simply do something because you fear the wrath of your god, then that is not considered acting moral in any way..

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

 

[Simurgh]

didn't expect anything else from your ilk

 

[shmogie]

didn't expect anything else from your ilk

Bwaaaaha ha ha. ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzZZ

 

[Alison Wonderland]

You've just said, "There are no absolute moral codes," which is, in itself, an absolute moral code.

Not necessarily.

LOL.