Snowflakes....designed or accidents of nature?

[JayJayDee]

They're very beautiful. Indeed great pictures.


Yes, Nature is a wonderful Creator. Snowflakes follow the crystallization of water, which is based on its molecule structure and the energy (temperature/thermal motion) at the point of that crystallization.

It's almost as impressive as a Mandelbrot. That blows me away even more than water crystals.


See this:

A Mandelbrot Set is basically an infinite pattern. The formula is extremely simple. (And it was discovered by accident too.)

Fractals are cool! (I really like what happens to the pattern at 2:59, don't you think? I'm so impressed by the universe and how mathematically beautiful it is.)

If you think about it. Every snowflake is designed by Nature.

Or every snowflake is produced from mechanisms built into nature by a designer par excellence.

Thanks for the link....fascinating......

 

[Bunyip]

Thank you for those....I agree, God is not designing each and every snowflake but has put in place the mechanisms that create them. These is a sacred patterning based on mathematics. Much the same as the miracle of life. God does not create every offspring but has put in place the physical mechanisms to ensure the perpetuation of life in all living things.

I am fascinated with Fibonacci numbers in nature. To me that makes the Creator a great mathematician.

I think that the idea of a god creating mechanisms rather than individually handcrafting the snowflakes is infinitely more reasonable. It avoids the problematic argument from design, and does seem more plausible. The way that complexity emerges naturally is a rich field for meditation. So if we look at the universe as a whole as reducing via entropy to chaos, but subsets of this whole trending towards complexity because of the intent of a creator - is that what you are suggesting?

 

[JayJayDee]

I think that the idea of a god creating mechanisms rather than individually handcrafting the snowflakes is infinitely more reasonable. It avoids the problematic argument from design, and does seem more plausible. The way that complexity emerges naturally is a rich field for meditation. So if we look at the universe as a whole as reducing via entropy to chaos, but subsets of this whole trending towards complexity because of the intent of a creator - is that what you are suggesting?

I am suggesting that the Creator had a purpose in putting living beings on a tiny speck of a planet, in one small galaxy in a vast universe that he carefully prepared to support all the life forms he created here. I don't believe that planet earth will be at all unique in the eons to come. It is obvious that the myriad creatures that God put here to share this planet, all have a place in the ecology of this earth. Man has a unique place in this arrangement, being assigned as caretaker and endowed with the moral qualities of the Creator himself. Man alone has ability to plan the future based on information taken in through his senses. He alone has a written and spoken language. He alone can communicate with his Maker in a meaningful dialogue. He alone can obey or disobey the commands of his rightful sovereign. He is not a programmed robot....he has choices...life and death choices.

I don't believe that we are left down here to our own devices to see how long it takes us to wipe out all life on this planet.....(though that is how it appears at times) I see God as standing back to see if man can learn the lessons about his abuse of free will. Freedom of choice was meant to be a gift, but its abuse turned it into a curse. It is the cause of all the misery that humans bring upon one another. From personal conflicts to global war...all have a common cause.

Not until humans get the message that one person's exercise of free will cannot impinge on the right of the next person to exercise their freedom of choice, will any human be permitted to go to the next phase of his purpose. As our rightful sovereign, obedience to the commands of our Creator is required without hesitation or question. Once you get to really know God, and what he has done and is doing right now, that becomes very easy to do.

I see an infinite future that is nothing but amazing. It is a big universe and God has no constraints with regard to time. Everything will take place as he has stated in his written communication with us and whether we will be part of the next phase is entirely dependent upon our own conduct and attitude now. I believe that this earth is the starting point where all contingencies are worked out before continuing on with his much grander purpose.

The big picture is massive!

 

[Bunyip]

I am suggesting that the Creator had a purpose in putting living beings on a tiny speck of a planet, in one small galaxy in a vast universe that he carefully prepared to support all the life forms he created here. I don't believe that planet earth will be at all unique in the eons to come. It is obvious that the myriad creatures that God put here to share this planet, all have a place in the ecology of this earth. Man has a unique place in this arrangement, being assigned as caretaker and endowed with the moral qualities of the Creator himself. Man alone has ability to plan the future based on information taken in through his senses. He alone has a written and spoken language. He alone can communicate with his Maker in a meaningful dialogue. He alone can obey or disobey the commands of his rightful sovereign. He is not a programmed robot....he has choices...life and death choices.

I don't believe that we are left down here to our own devices to see how long it takes us to wipe out all life on this planet.....(though that is how it appears at times) I see God as standing back to see if man can learn the lessons about his abuse of free will. Freedom of choice was meant to be a gift, but its abuse turned it into a curse. It is the cause of all the misery that humans bring upon one another. From personal conflicts to global war...all have a common cause.

Not until humans get the message that one person's exercise of free will cannot impinge on the right of the next person to exercise their freedom of choice, will any human be permitted to go to the next phase of his purpose. As our rightful sovereign, obedience to the commands of our Creator is required without hesitation or question. Once you get to really know God, and what he has done and is doing right now, that becomes very easy to do.

I see an infinite future that is nothing but amazing. It is a big universe and God has no constraints with regard to time. Everything will take place as he has stated in his written communication with us and whether we will be part of the next phase is entirely dependent upon our own conduct and attitude now. I believe that this earth is the starting point where all contingencies are worked out before continuing on with his much grander purpose.

The big picture is massive!

Indeed. And your conception does not need to rely on the cosmological, moral or design arguments that seem to have modern apologetics at a stalemate.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There is a reason for all that the Creator does. Most judge him without hearing all the evidence.

I see there being no justification for a bunch of fat and overpriviledged Americans having it so damn easy because God watches over us while he allows people to suffer at the hands of groups like ISIS or the Nazis, why he allows so many of the horrid birth defects that happen, and why he allows thousands of children to die every single die from starvation.

He is more concerned about children starving than we are. You forget he has the power over life and death.

Then why do so many suffer with starvation? Not a Western "I'm hungry" what we think of as starving, but starving in the since that they cannot sustain their bodily functions, they are so underfed that they look like walking skeletons, and they are so malnurited they suffer a long and painful death from their body eating itself until there is no more left and biological functions cease.
Really, is god so bored with being god that he was busy designing snow flakes while
the black plague devastated Europe?

 

[`mud]

Practice, practice, practice......
when is nature going to get it right ?
But they're beautiful accidents aren't they !
~
'mud

 

[Nada]

I see there being no justification for a bunch of fat and overpriviledged Americans having it so damn easy because God watches over us while he allows people to suffer at the hands of groups like ISIS or the Nazis, why he allows so many of the horrid birth defects that happen, and why he allows thousands of children to die every single die from starvation.

Then why do so many suffer with starvation? Not a Western "I'm hungry" what we think of as starving, but starving in the since that they cannot sustain their bodily functions, they are so underfed that they look like walking skeletons, and they are so malnurited they suffer a long and painful death from their body eating itself until there is.
Really, is god so bored with being god that he was busy designing snow flakes while
the black plague devastated Europe?

God designed and created the snow flakes way before the black plague devastated Europe.

 

[Willamena]

Snowflakes....designed or accidents of nature?

Accidentally designed.

 

[roger1440]

I would hope said hypothetical creator has better things to do than design billions and billions of individual snowflakes while thousands of children starve to death every day.

One has nothing to do with the other.

 

[LuisDantas]

I have said in the past that if snowflakes are evidence of a designer,the Normal Distribution must be a much stronger piece of evidence.

It is all in the eyes of the beholder, I suppose. But it does surprise me that people actually raise such claims.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

God designed and created the snow flakes way before the black plague devastated Europe.

So if designs snow flakes, because he is that level of meticulous uber-micromanager, why is the process of genetic replication so prone to error? If he is so attentive to detail, why is our planet surrounded by massive chunks of rocks that could take us out any day now? If he personally sees to how each snow flake is in appearance, why doesn't he spend even half of this effort in working the flaws out of cellular reproduction?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

One has nothing to do with the other.

Yes, they do. Why is god designing snow flakes when there are some very real and very serious problems that he neglects to take care of? Is he really more fascinated with the snow than with making sure his son's name isn't tarnished? This would be understandable and forgivable if god is autistic, but I've never heard anyone suggest that.

 

[roger1440]

Amazing macro-photography of individual snowflakes [10 Pictures]

Please take a look at these amazing photographs. Do you see design in these beautifully crafted snowflakes?

No two are alike and there is no way to appreciate them with the naked eye. There is only this very special kind of photography that allows us to see what amazing things the Creator has made, just because he can.

Blows me away.

There is no such thing as an accident.There is a cause and effect for everything. But then again, it brings us back to the age old question, "What caused the first cause?"

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There is no such thing as an accident.There is a cause and effect for everything. But then again, it brings us back to the age old question, "What caused the first cause?"

Just as long as we are clear that god is not exempt from this line of questioning. What caused god? If there truly is a first cause, it only makes since that there must be a cause greater than god.

 

[roger1440]

Why is god designing snow flakes...

Maybe he has to much free time on his hands.

 

[roger1440]

Just as long as we are clear that god is not exempt from this line of questioning. What caused god? If there truly is a first cause, it only makes since that there must be a cause greater than god.

If God is eternal then he resides outside the perimeter of time. Therefore, “first cause” would be meaningless.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If God is eternal then he resides outside the perimeter of time. Therefore, “first cause” would be meaningless.

This does not excuse god from questioning. What caused god?

 

[Willamena]

Deity designs snowflakes in the same way you design the state of your liver.

 

[roger1440]

This does not excuse god from questioning. What caused god?

God is the ground of being, without cause, with no beginning or end. "I am".

 

[Nada]

So if designs snow flakes, because he is that level of meticulous uber-micromanager, why is the process of genetic replication so prone to error? If he is so attentive to detail, why is our planet surrounded by massive chunks of rocks that could take us out any day now? If he personally sees to how each snow flake is in appearance, why doesn't he spend even half of this effort in working the flaws out of cellular reproduction?

It sounds as if you think God is a human.A created being could never know the mind of the Grand creator.If God does exist, and created everything, why would you question such power or even begin to think you know what God knows.? It is very obvious that everything was designed and created.Like the snowflakes.A complex brain made from flesh does not just pop up out of nowhere.It did not evolve from an organism in the ocean.We are designed with set programs and chemical reactions that go off like clock work.This is not the result of evolution.Your conscience is designed to warn you of danger.It is a choice program.Our heart beats with out us doing it and breathing too.We have designed plumbing in us.Our eyes are one of the most complex things ever.Companies design the camera lenses after the eye.Planes take their designs from birds.So do cars for better aerodynamics.So the people of this world take ideas from Gods designs.Always have.The human mind was designed to think and create.We can think of something and create it.God gave us this gift.The chances of everything in our universe just magically appearing with all its complexities are so astronomical its ridiculous.Everything is perfectly aligned.