So Jesus is not God?

[Soapy]

Again, all your doing is pointing out verses that reveal the humanity of Jesus and the God head . To think that ' Father ' and ' Son ' refers to literal relationship is weird indeed . Did the Father have a Mother God who birthed Jesus. Is this your position ?

I really don’t know what you are saying here.

I have ALWAYS pointed out that ‘Son’ means ‘He who does the works of him who gave him the work to do’.

So why are you trying to say that I’m advocating a ‘Mother God’ person…

A person who is given work to do and does it exactly as it is given to him is ‘Son’ of him who gave him the work to do.

This does not involve any kind of ‘Mother’ figure.

Jesus is ‘Son’ of God because he dutifully does the works of God. He says himself that he is “God’s Son”…

• “what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? (John 10:36)
• Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. (John 10:37)
  
• “But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” (John 10:38)

Jesus, here, defines what is meant by him being ‘Son of God’, saying that he is ‘doing the works of [his] Father’. He defines ‘GOD’ as ‘HIS FATHER’.

Do you believe him?

 

[Soapy]

Then why the strange beliefs?

The belief is strange to you because you choose to believe a false one.

What, in the scriptures, is the meaning of the word, ‘Father’? What does ‘Father’ mean to you?

I say it means:

• He who creates
• He who gives life to [someone or thing]
  
• He who brings [someone or something] into being
• He who is the Head

What do you say?

 

[John1.12]

I really don’t know what you are saying here.

I have ALWAYS pointed out that ‘Son’ means ‘He who does the works of him who gave him the work to do’.

So why are you trying to say that I’m advocating a ‘Mother God’ person…

A person who is given work to do and does it exactly as it is given to him is ‘Son’ of him who gave him the work to do.

This does not involve any kind of ‘Mother’ figure.

Jesus is ‘Son’ of God because he dutifully does the works of God. He says himself that he is “God’s Son”…

• “what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? (John 10:36)
• Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. (John 10:37)
  
• “But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” (John 10:38)

Jesus, here, defines what is meant by him being ‘Son of God’, saying that he is ‘doing the works of [his] Father’. He defines ‘GOD’ as ‘HIS FATHER’.

Do you believe him?

I don't think we can continue. I've said over and over and over ,that you keep simply highlighting his ' humanity ' ,to that i say , amen!

 

[moorea944]

I don't think we can continue. I've said over and over and over ,that you keep simply highlighting his ' humanity ' ,to that i say , amen!

Well, first of all, his humanity is the key!!


Those who attempt to diminish the glorious nature of God by suggesting He disguised himself as a man, pretending to be able to sin and pretending to die... those who attempt to diminish the achievement of Jesus by suggesting that he was an immortal being merely deceptively parading around as a human being.... each heavily stress the issue of Christ's supposed spirit-nature. It is interesting to note that scripture prophesies that the doctrine that would identify the antiChrist system would be the denial of the flesh of Christ.

1 John 4v3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John v 7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

This rejection of the "flesh" of Christ is not a questioning of his mere existence as a historical character but a prophecy of a major doctrine that would identify apostate Christianity. This is known today as the Trinity as well as the pre-existence of Christ. Each version of this false doctrine expresses the true nature of the son of God as being spirit - not flesh. They claim that the flesh nature that Jesus displayed was merely a temporary condition, that he put on this mortality like a disguise for a brief period of time that he could pretend to be in the image and likeness of mankind, but never lost his inherent immortality or divine nature. One thing God's word is emphatically clear about is that an immortal nature does not have the capacity to be tempted to sin or to die.

The flesh nature of the Messiah is stressed throughout scripture. It is not a disguise. It is not a deceit. Although Jesus was the center point of the Creator's plan and intended from the beginning, Jesus Christ did not exist as a living sentient being until he was born of Mary. The human nature (flesh nature) of Christ is absolutely essential for his role, his victory and the path he has created for others to follow.

Deut 18. Moses addresses the nation of Israel before his death about the coming Messish. God would 'raise up" - not descend, like a spirit to flesh perversion, a prophet. And he would be like unto his brethren, but.... like unto God.

Romans 1v1-3 Jesus is from the seed of David. Wow, you mean Paul lied to us?????

Psalm 89v19, 1 Corin 15v21-22, Hebrews 2v16-17

Jesus is a co-inheritor of God with us. One cannot inherit himself, as would be the case if we accepted the concept of the trinity. We inherit God, as Jesus already has....

 

[Soapy]

For what reason then did ‘GOD’ create the world and all there is within?

Was it not that so that the perfect image of himself should become ruler over it?

And who is that perfect image of God?

Is the image of God, God? (I asked you to define what you mean by ‘God’ but you pretended you didn’t understand the question. Let me show you: ‘The image of God IS NOT ALMIGHTY, is not a RULING image…it is a SERVANT to that from which the image came!)

Did you answer, ‘Yes’?

So then what of Adam, was he not created image of God? Was Adam not sinless, holy, and righteous? Son of God!

Can the the enlivening, the overshadowing, the inspiriting power of God’s Holy Spirit create anything other than something holy, righteous, and sinless? SON OF GOD!

What does the scriptures say?

And what does Luke 3:18 say about Adam?

But the image of God sinned and sin entered into all mankind, all offspring of Adam… so, no! The image of God is not God because it is impossible for God to sin!

So, another image of God had to be created, created in the same manner as the first Adam: holy, sinless, and righteous. son of God!

And this is expressed in these verses:

• “The angel answered [Mary], "The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High [God] will overshadow you. Therefore the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.” (Luke 1:35)

What are we learning from this verse (that some did not already know):​

1. The Holy Spirit is the ‘Spirit of the most high (God)’ : Yahweh. (How is it argued that the power of the most high God is ANOTHER person?)​
2. The enlivening spirit of the most high God is what PUTS THE BREATH OF LIFE into the ‘embryonic body’ of a person. This is seen in the creation of Adam, wherein an angel created the BODY of Adam BUT GOD enlivened it by the breath of His Holy Spirit… ‘AND THE MAN (the inert dust body) …BECAME…A LIVING SOUL’​
3. All creations by means of the power of the most high God are this holy, righteous and sinless… are therefore ‘SONS OF GOD’. Therefore, we also see that the Holy angels of Heaven, who are also CREATIONS of the most high God, ‘the Father of Spirits’, are ‘SONS OF GOD’.​

• “… Christ died for the ungodly.” (Romans 5:6)
• “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:8)
  
• “Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! For if, while we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!” (Romans 5:9-10)

Trinity says Christ did not die..!! Yet we are ‘saved’ from eternal death for the sin of Adam - saved from the WRATH of God… How is Christ, God, if God died to save us from his own wrath…?

• “Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man [Adam], and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned … Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come. (Romans 5:12-14)

So, through the sin of Adam, death came to all mankind, even those who did not according to the commandments because the original sin is eternal death. Salvation, therefore must come from the pure sinless blood of a man to dispel the wrath of God. Nevertheless, God had prepared a method of salvation for mankind, a gift by his grace:

• “But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man [Adam], how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! … For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man [Adam], how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ! (Romans 5:15-17)
• “Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

So, by One Man, created Son of God, but sinned and brought death to all mankind, so also, One Man, created Son of God, did not sin but gave his pure blood did the salvation of mankind from eternal death.

• “so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Romans 5:21)

YET TRINITY SAYS this did not happen,.. that Jesus Christ did not die… meaning that we are all still subject to the original sin of Adam - eternal death to all…!!!!!!

And yet, TRINITY also says that Jesus Christ RAISED HIMSELF from the Dead… the Dead that he did not die…according to trinity!!

Romans 6:1 sums up the trinity dilemma:

• “What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?”

And Romans 6:3 asks a most relevant question concerning the fallacy that Jesus did not die:

• “Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?”

For then, if Jesus Christ did not die, how are we to be baptised into his death? The baptism that brings salvation?

But yet, seeing that Jesus DID DIE, we who believe aspire to the next verse:

• “We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.”

And what indeed is the ‘Glory of the Father’…? What but the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of the Father…

So, it was indeed, the FATHER who raised up the Lord Jesus Christ from the dead…. Unlike what trinity fallaciously; maliciously, deceptively, misleadingly, claims!!!

The spirit of the Father, the Holy Spirit gives life… The Holy Spirit of the Father enlivens, inspirits, brings to life… The Spirit of God is life… the overshadowing creates that which is holy, sinless and righteous:

• Adam: the lifeless dust of the earth enlivened by the breath of God to make the body of the man into a LIVING SOUL: Holy, Righteous, Sinless: Son of God in the flesh.
• Jesus: the lifeless egg (Seed) of a woman enlivened by the breath of God to make the egg / seed a LIVING SOUL: Holy, Righteous, Sinless: Son of God in the flesh.

 

[Soapy]

I don't think we can continue. I've said over and over and over ,that you keep simply highlighting his ' humanity ' ,to that i say , amen!

No, @John 1.12, it is that you are seeing the truth and cannot oppose it. THAT is what you are running away from!

All you have ever done is repeat verses without evidence of what they are supposed to mean in terms of your claims… why? It’s simply that they cannot be reconciled against the truth.

When I ask you questions you DO NOT ANSWER to the questions I ask… Yet I answer yours with immense amounts of evidence… why? Because the truth is with me!

As for highlighting Jesus’ humanity… THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THE SCRIPTURES IS ABOUT concerning Jesus.

Jesus was ANOINTED BY GOD …’Consecrated, Set Apart for kingship and/or Priesthood’:

• “What of the one the Father CONSECRATED as his very own and sent into the world… how then do you say I blaspheme because I said I am God’s Son?”
• “[listen up people… did you not hear..] how GOD ANOINTED JESUS CHRIST WITH HOLY SPIRIT AND WITH POWER to do good and open the eyes of the blind and heal the sick…”

When I show you scriptures, when I ask you what it means, when I ask you did your version … YOU ARE SILENT! Instead, you revert to nonsense to make a claim that you are answering me!

I ask even simple questions that should be readily responded to if your claim is right and justified. For instance:

1. What purpose did God create the world?
2. Why does the Son INHERIT THE RULERSHIP of creation if he is the Creator of it?
3. What does ‘Father’ mean, if not ‘CREATOR’, ‘He that brings into being’, ‘He that gives life’…
4. Why is Jesus GRANTED POWER AND AUTHORITY FROM THE Father if Jesus IS GOD, who has ALL AUTHORITY… Is God granted authority and power?
5. How did your Jesus-DIE… and as you say he did not die, then how does mankind obtain salvation from the sin of Adam?

I can ask many more questions but you would answer none - a true belief would not fear to answer because it’s ideology would be immediately obvious - yet yours is deficient in every quarter.

Yet, truly, I know why you speak as you do!

I only warn you that: ‘Where there is no law there is no sin.. but once the law is given then there is no hiding from the penalty of violating the law’

You must understand what that means and fear to give false answers.

 

[Soapy]

I don't think we can continue. I've said over and over and over ,that you keep simply highlighting his ' humanity ' ,to that i say , amen!

….? Amen to the highlighting Jesus’ humanity? Great, excellent. Thanks.

But if you believe otherwise, why are you not expressing it from the scriptures and by your own words?

Even SIMPLE questions are refused answer from you!

• What was the purpose of God creating the world?
• What caused the requirement for a redeemer?
• How was that redeemer to come into the world?
• Why was Abraham glad to see the glorious day of his future redeemer ‘son’
• Who is greater: Abraham or the redeemer Son of his loins?
• Why was the son dutiful to his spirit Father such that he was REWARDED with the RULERSHIP of creation, if he was Almighty God… almighty God who is RULER OVER HEAVEN (a kingdom far far far greater than the kingdom of creation)
• How is the Son HEIR TO GOD if he IS GOD … and how are the ELECT also HEIRS TO GOD and yet they are human? Does this mean the elect will become GOD ALMIGHTY, also?

Please, @John 1.12, if you value your belief then you will GLADLY respond with wholesome, appropriate, holy spirited, and righteous answers.

If not, then we will all see that your belief is worthy of scrutinise as false ideology - may God Almighty direct your thoughts on these matters by his Holy Spirit… better not to answer thsn to answer falsely!

BEWARE, @John 1.12, do not grieve the Spirit of truth!!

 

[John1.12]

Well, first of all, his humanity is the key!!


Those who attempt to diminish the glorious nature of God by suggesting He disguised himself as a man, pretending to be able to sin and pretending to die... those who attempt to diminish the achievement of Jesus by suggesting that he was an immortal being merely deceptively parading around as a human being.... each heavily stress the issue of Christ's supposed spirit-nature. It is interesting to note that scripture prophesies that the doctrine that would identify the antiChrist system would be the denial of the flesh of Christ.

1 John 4v3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John v 7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

This rejection of the "flesh" of Christ is not a questioning of his mere existence as a historical character but a prophecy of a major doctrine that would identify apostate Christianity. This is known today as the Trinity as well as the pre-existence of Christ. Each version of this false doctrine expresses the true nature of the son of God as being spirit - not flesh. They claim that the flesh nature that Jesus displayed was merely a temporary condition, that he put on this mortality like a disguise for a brief period of time that he could pretend to be in the image and likeness of mankind, but never lost his inherent immortality or divine nature. One thing God's word is emphatically clear about is that an immortal nature does not have the capacity to be tempted to sin or to die.

The flesh nature of the Messiah is stressed throughout scripture. It is not a disguise. It is not a deceit. Although Jesus was the center point of the Creator's plan and intended from the beginning, Jesus Christ did not exist as a living sentient being until he was born of Mary. The human nature (flesh nature) of Christ is absolutely essential for his role, his victory and the path he has created for others to follow.

Deut 18. Moses addresses the nation of Israel before his death about the coming Messish. God would 'raise up" - not descend, like a spirit to flesh perversion, a prophet. And he would be like unto his brethren, but.... like unto God.

Romans 1v1-3 Jesus is from the seed of David. Wow, you mean Paul lied to us?????

Psalm 89v19, 1 Corin 15v21-22, Hebrews 2v16-17

Jesus is a co-inheritor of God with us. One cannot inherit himself, as would be the case if we accepted the concept of the trinity. We inherit God, as Jesus already has....

No person who believes Jesus is God , denies the 'flesh '. Its precisely my point when those that deny the divinity of Jesus always try to use the verse s that show his humanity proves he's not God .

 

[John1.12]

….? Amen to the highlighting Jesus’ humanity? Great, excellent. Thanks.

But if you believe otherwise, why are you not expressing it from the scriptures and by your own words?

Even SIMPLE questions are refused answer from you!

• What was the purpose of God creating the world?
• What caused the requirement for a redeemer?
• How was that redeemer to come into the world?
• Why was Abraham glad to see the glorious day of his future redeemer ‘son’
• Who is greater: Abraham or the redeemer Son of his loins?
• Why was the son dutiful to his spirit Father such that he was REWARDED with the RULERSHIP of creation, if he was Almighty God… almighty God who is RULER OVER HEAVEN (a kingdom far far far greater than the kingdom of creation)
• How is the Son HEIR TO GOD if he IS GOD … and how are the ELECT also HEIRS TO GOD and yet they are human? Does this mean the elect will become GOD ALMIGHTY, also?

Please, @John 1.12, if you value your belief then you will GLADLY respond with wholesome, appropriate, holy spirited, and righteous answers.

If not, then we will all see that your belief is worthy of scrutinise as false ideology - may God Almighty direct your thoughts on these matters by his Holy Spirit… better not to answer thsn to answer falsely!

BEWARE, @John 1.12, do not grieve the Spirit of truth!!

Its difficult when you post such long !! replies??

 

[John1.12]

….? Amen to the highlighting Jesus’ humanity? Great, excellent. Thanks.

But if you believe otherwise, why are you not expressing it from the scriptures and by your own words?

Even SIMPLE questions are refused answer from you!

• What was the purpose of God creating the world?
• What caused the requirement for a redeemer?
• How was that redeemer to come into the world?
• Why was Abraham glad to see the glorious day of his future redeemer ‘son’
• Who is greater: Abraham or the redeemer Son of his loins?
• Why was the son dutiful to his spirit Father such that he was REWARDED with the RULERSHIP of creation, if he was Almighty God… almighty God who is RULER OVER HEAVEN (a kingdom far far far greater than the kingdom of creation)
• How is the Son HEIR TO GOD if he IS GOD … and how are the ELECT also HEIRS TO GOD and yet they are human? Does this mean the elect will become GOD ALMIGHTY, also?

Please, @John 1.12, if you value your belief then you will GLADLY respond with wholesome, appropriate, holy spirited, and righteous answers.

If not, then we will all see that your belief is worthy of scrutinise as false ideology - may God Almighty direct your thoughts on these matters by his Holy Spirit… better not to answer thsn to answer falsely!

BEWARE, @John 1.12, do not grieve the Spirit of truth!!

Tell me about idolatry. Anyone that denies the divinity of Jesus has a problem with Idolatry . We have a ' Man ' , however highly accredited or exalted , been given all the focus only God should recieve . There is no definition of idolatry with this position . Jesus very name is above all names. Every knee will bow before Jesus. Jesus is the saviour of all men. Jesus is redeemer , king of Kings, Lord of Lords , first and the last , Alpha and Omega, the ' I Am ' , The way,the truth and the life . He raises himself from the dead. He does the greatest act of love ever known, the cross . I have to stop this discussion ,because its so silly. If it wasn't so sad ,it would be funny. Because for one ' man ' that has the entire Focus of the NT ( especially) ,you do not have any definition of idolatry . This position you have ,although I know is shared by many cults , is too ridiculous for a Christian to go through Especially as we've been going at this a while now . Enough is enough ..I pray you do come to know the Jesus of the bible. Its to silly to continue .

 

[Soapy]

Tell me about idolatry. Anyone that denies the divinity of Jesus has a problem with Idolatry . We have a ' Man ' , however highly accredited or exalted , been given all the focus only God should recieve . There is no definition of idolatry with this position . Jesus very name is above all names. Every knee will bow before Jesus. Jesus is the saviour of all men. Jesus is redeemer , king of Kings, Lord of Lords , first and the last , Alpha and Omega, the ' I Am ' , The way,the truth and the life . He raises himself from the dead. He does the greatest act of love ever known, the cross . I have to stop this discussion ,because its so silly. If it wasn't so sad ,it would be funny. Because for one ' man ' that has the entire Focus of the NT ( especially) ,you do not have any definition of idolatry . This position you have ,although I know is shared by many cults , is too ridiculous for a Christian to go through Especially as we've been going at this a while now . Enough is enough ..I pray you do come to know the Jesus of the bible. Its to silly to continue .

I write a lot to you because you are sorely lacking in scriptural knowledge yet attempt to claim a mastery. What I wrote shows you have little to know understanding hence I need to explain a lot to you.

You say I don’t know anything, don’t have a definition for, idolatry… since when did we discuss that word or aspect of things?

‘First and Last’ just means ‘Only [one]. Think about that!! If there is only one of something it most certainly is the first, and the last, if there never has been nor ever will be another of its type… no dressing over that. And the other title in that vein (Alpha and omega, Beginning and the End)… if you study hard enough you will find that those title were ADDED to scriptures to make trinity appear to work. Check the footnotes in an credible extended study Bible!)

Many of the things you mentioned in your compilation are things that Jesus is GRANTED to have by the Father.

You project the future events into Jesus as if they had already occurred AT THE TIME the events were prophesied. That is like giving a trophy to a race contender before he has even run the race. You then declare these things as Jesus being divine (whatever that means!).

• “Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.” (Acts 2:32)
• “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.” (Acts 2:36)

When you read the scriptures and see that the apostles wrote that GOD ANOINTED JESUS WITH HOLY SPIRIT AND POWER, you say Jesus was God and always had the power and Holy Spirit that the apostle stated that God anointed him with…, how do you do that and claim you are professing truth?

When you read that Jesus was created by the Holy Spirit of God in the womb of Mary just as Adam was created from the inert dust of the earth, you say Jesus already existed before being created… how do you say that and claim you are professing truth? Do you not read what the Angel said to Mary: because the Holy Spirit will overshadow you the child to be born WILL BE HOLY and called ‘son of God’ - this does not mean he IS GOD, else what about Adam who was also called ‘Son of God’?

When you read that GOD, that the Father, raised up Jesus from the dead, you say that ‘No, Jesus raised himself up’… Wow, this is not a comprehension matter - it’s downright telling lies!

• “But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.” (Acts 1:24)

• “Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.” (Acts 2:22)
• “God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it.” (Acts 2:32)

Do you not read that Elijah and Elisha raised up the dead… do you call them ‘God’, too?

And Peter raised the dead:

• “Peter sent them all out of the room; then he got down on his knees and prayed. Turning toward the dead woman, he said, “Tabitha, get up.” She opened her eyes, and seeing Peter she sat up.” (Acts 9:40)

When you read that Jesus is GRANTED to have life in him, you say he always had life in him (the ability to give life to people) Yet Jesus ALWAYS PRAYED to the Father before resurrecting a dead person, although in some cases the person wasn’t actually dead. In those days they didn’t know about Comas so they would have buried the Haifa living person. And then again, Jesus’ raising up was not permanent because the person died at some point later in time - Where is Lazarus, today? The ‘ETERNAL FATHER’ written about in Isaiah is concerning the END OF TIME when Jesus ‘Gives ETERNAL Life’ to those he DEEMS WORTHY, thus earning him the title, ‘Everlasting Father’ - as I pointed out to you that the word ‘Father’ means: ‘He who give life…’ and as such, is why God; Yahweh; is called ‘Father’ in the scriptures. Yet when I ask you why Jesus isn’t called ‘Father’ if he is supposed to have created all things, you stay silent… it is obvious why you do so!

And when you read that Jesus died for our sins, his blood shed for our salvation, you say that Jesus did not die… and yet every year you commemorate his DEATH and later celebrate his RESURRECTION!!!!!! Funny that!!

@John 1.12, thank you for being an opposer (you know what that means!) It gave myself and Moorea944 the chance to express the truth in greater contention than we would otherwise have been able to do… I hope and pray that Jesus Christ takes this into consideration when he judges you at the mercy seat… but better, that you cone to the true understanding before that.

Pity for you. You could have learnt so much instead of wallowing in the sinful ideology and doctrine of trinity.

 

[John1.12]

You say I don’t know anything, don’t have a definition for, idolatry… since when did we discuss that word or aspect of things?

Many of the things you mentioned in your compilation are things that Jesus is GRANTED to have by the Father.

You project the future events into Jesus as if they had already occurred AT THE TIME the events were prophesied. That is like giving a trophy to a race contender before he has even run the race. You then declare these things as Jesus being divine (whatever that means!).

When you read the scriptures and see that the apostles wrote that GOD ANOINTED JESUS WITH HOLY SPIRIT AND POWER, you say Jesus was God and always had the power and Holy Spirit that the apostle stated that God anointed him with…, how do you do that and claim you are professing truth?

When you read that Jesus was created by the Holy Spirit of God in the womb of Mary just as Adam was created from the inert dust of the earth, you say Jesus already existed before being created… how do you say that and claim you are professing truth?

When you read that GOD, that the Father, raised up Jesus from the dead, you say that ‘No, Jesus raised himself up’… Wow, this is not a comprehension matter - it’s downright telling lies!

When you read that Jesus is GRANTED to have life in him, you say he always had life in him (the ability to give life to people) Yet Jesus ALWAYS PRAYED to the Father before resurrecting a dead person, although in some cases the person wasn’t actually dead. In those days they didn’t know about Comas so they would have buried the Haifa living person. And then again, Jesus’ raising up was not permanent because the person died at some point later in time - Where is Lazarus, today? The ‘ETERNAL FATHER’ written about in Isaiah is concerning the END OF TIME when Jesus ‘Gives ETERNAL Life’ to those he DEEMS WORTHY, thus earning him the title, ‘Everlasting Father’ - as I pointed out to you that the word ‘Father’ means: ‘He who give life…’ and as such, is why God; Yahweh; is called ‘Father’ in the scriptures. Yet when I ask you why Jesus isn’t called ‘Father’ if he is supposed to have created all things, you stay silent… it is obvious why you do so!

And when you read that Jesus died for our sins, his blood shed for our salvation, you say that Jesus did not die… and yet every year you commemorate his DEATH and later celebrate his RESURRECTION!!!!!! Funny that!!

@John 1.12, thank you for being an opposer (you know what that means!) It gave myself and Moorea944 the chance to express the truth in greater contention than we would otherwise have been able to do… I hope and pray that Jesus Christ takes this into consideration when he judges you at the mercy seat… but better, that you cone to the true understanding before that.

Pity for you. You could have learnt so much instead of wallowing in the sinful ideology and doctrine of trinity.

I write a lot to you because you are sorely lacking in scriptural knowledge yet attempt to claim a mastery. What I wrote shows you have little to know understanding hence I need to explain a lot to you.

You say I don’t know anything, don’t have a definition for, idolatry… since when did we discuss that word or aspect of things?

‘First and Last’ just means ‘Only [one]. Think about that!! If there is only one of something it most certainly is the first, and the last, if there never has been nor ever will be another of its type… no dressing over that. And the other title in that vein (Alpha and omega, Beginning and the End)… if you study hard enough you will find that those title were ADDED to scriptures to make trinity appear to work. Check the footnotes in an credible extended study Bible!)

Many of the things you mentioned in your compilation are things that Jesus is GRANTED to have by the Father.

You project the future events into Jesus as if they had already occurred AT THE TIME the events were prophesied. That is like giving a trophy to a race contender before he has even run the race. You then declare these things as Jesus being divine (whatever that means!).

• “Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.” (Acts 2:32)
• “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.” (Acts 2:36)

When you read the scriptures and see that the apostles wrote that GOD ANOINTED JESUS WITH HOLY SPIRIT AND POWER, you say Jesus was God and always had the power and Holy Spirit that the apostle stated that God anointed him with…, how do you do that and claim you are professing truth?

When you read that Jesus was created by the Holy Spirit of God in the womb of Mary just as Adam was created from the inert dust of the earth, you say Jesus already existed before being created… how do you say that and claim you are professing truth? Do you not read what the Angel said to Mary: because the Holy Spirit will overshadow you the child to be born WILL BE HOLY and called ‘son of God’ - this does not mean he IS GOD, else what about Adam who was also called ‘Son of God’?

When you read that GOD, that the Father, raised up Jesus from the dead, you say that ‘No, Jesus raised himself up’… Wow, this is not a comprehension matter - it’s downright telling lies!

• “But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.” (Acts 1:24)

• “Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.” (Acts 2:22)
• “God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it.” (Acts 2:32)

Do you not read that Elijah and Elisha raised up the dead… do you call them ‘God’, too?

And Peter raised the dead:

• “Peter sent them all out of the room; then he got down on his knees and prayed. Turning toward the dead woman, he said, “Tabitha, get up.” She opened her eyes, and seeing Peter she sat up.” (Acts 9:40)

When you read that Jesus is GRANTED to have life in him, you say he always had life in him (the ability to give life to people) Yet Jesus ALWAYS PRAYED to the Father before resurrecting a dead person, although in some cases the person wasn’t actually dead. In those days they didn’t know about Comas so they would have buried the Haifa living person. And then again, Jesus’ raising up was not permanent because the person died at some point later in time - Where is Lazarus, today? The ‘ETERNAL FATHER’ written about in Isaiah is concerning the END OF TIME when Jesus ‘Gives ETERNAL Life’ to those he DEEMS WORTHY, thus earning him the title, ‘Everlasting Father’ - as I pointed out to you that the word ‘Father’ means: ‘He who give life…’ and as such, is why God; Yahweh; is called ‘Father’ in the scriptures. Yet when I ask you why Jesus isn’t called ‘Father’ if he is supposed to have created all things, you stay silent… it is obvious why you do so!

And when you read that Jesus died for our sins, his blood shed for our salvation, you say that Jesus did not die… and yet every year you commemorate his DEATH and later celebrate his RESURRECTION!!!!!! Funny that!!

@John 1.12, thank you for being an opposer (you know what that means!) It gave myself and Moorea944 the chance to express the truth in greater contention than we would otherwise have been able to do… I hope and pray that Jesus Christ takes this into consideration when he judges you at the mercy seat… but better, that you cone to the true understanding before that.

Pity for you. You could have learnt so much instead of wallowing in the sinful ideology and doctrine of trinity.

Because you've yet to quote anything where I'm not saying ,yes that's what Jesus came to do ..Yes that's what Jesus did . I quoted simple verses that literally say Jesus is God ( John 1.1 ) and that he created ALL THINGS '. Jesus is the greatest person in the entire bible and he's not God ? Good grief man ,get a hold of your self , drop this false teaching you've been duped into and Just read the bible ..Its impossible to miss it . Unless you've been deceived prior to reading. Is it a coincidence that every Christian teaches this ( that holds to the bible and believes it) lol ..WAKE UP , I'm trying to help you here and I'm losing patience. Come on !!

 

[Soapy]

Because you've yet to quote anything where I'm not saying ,yes that's what Jesus came to do ..Yes that's what Jesus did . I quoted simple verses that literally say Jesus is God ( John 1.1 ) and that he created ALL THINGS '. Jesus is the greatest person in the entire bible and he's not God ? Good grief man ,get a hold of your self , drop this false teaching you've been duped into and Just read the bible ..Its impossible to miss it . Unless you've been deceived prior to reading. Is it a coincidence that every Christian teaches this ( that holds to the bible and believes it) lol ..WAKE UP , I'm trying to help you here and I'm losing patience. Come on !!

The final thrashings of a snake!

John 1:1 is not speaking about Jesus…..

The verses claiming that Jesus created all things are corruptions by trinitarian translators.

Those verses originally stated that ‘GOD created all things’ FOR THE SON.

John 1:3 is speaking about ‘the word of God’, which is the word spoken by God at the beginning:

• ‘Let there be light….’

Trinitarian translators wilfully and treacherously chose to put ‘HE’ instead of ‘IT’ as the object that created because it would give credit to their miscreant belief. The Greek did not suggest any gender for ‘the word of God’. And you cannot see that the CREATOR is FATHER… so when I ask you to define ‘Father’, you refuse or stay silent.
That doesn’t do yourself anything worthy to be incapable of defining what you mean by words snd terms. Worse, it’s not that you cannot define it to me but that doing so would DISCREDIT your belief… Sad!!

You see the part where it says, ‘it was created for him’? Yes, the CREATOR, which is what ‘Father’ means, created the world and all things in it ‘FOR HIM’, FOR THE SON.

I wrote this to you: God created a limited PHYSICAL WORLD (a ‘flesh’ world) out of the vastness of the endless SPIRIT WORLD and put the image of himself in it to rule over it. And he put ONE MAN to be its overall RULER, and that would be ‘Father in flesh’, which would have been the first man ADAM, born SINLESS, HOLY, and RIGHTEOUS by means of GOD’s Holy Spirit. But Adam sinned and caused all mankind, ALL ADAM’S offspring to be born in sin - and since only a sinless pure blood offering could sate the anger of God ANOTHER HOLY SPIRIT enlivening man had to be created… hence: ‘The Holy Spirit shall overshadow you therefore the child to be born to you will be HOLY and called, the Son of God’ - just as ADAM was ‘Son of God’ .. until he sinned.
But not only that: The holy angels of heaven are also ‘SONS OF GOD’ because all things with spirit in them are ENLIVENED by the Holy Spirit … the SPIRIT OF THE FATHER: The Father of Spirits!!

The verses in Colossians 1:9-16 says:

• (9) “For this reason, since the day we heard about you, we have not stopped praying for you. We continually ask God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all the wisdom and understanding that the Spirit gives,
  
• (10) so that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,
  
• (11) being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience,
  
• (12) and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light.
  
• (13) For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
  
• (14) in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
  
• (15) The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
  
• (16) For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
• (17) He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
  
• (18) And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.“

Verse 15 says that the Son is the IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE GOD… @John 1.12, Jesus is the IMAGE OF GOD IN THE FLESH… an IMAGE IS NOT THE THING IT IS THE IMAGE OF!!! The IMAGE IF GOD IS NOT GOD from who the image came from!!

Jesus says that he CAN ONLY DO WHAT HE SEES THE FATHER DO. So how could he have been the ONE OFF CREATOR of the physical world if the Father had not created BEFORE HIM?

Verse 15 ALSO says that the Son is FIRSTBORN over creation… This is not a CHRONOLOGICAL ‘first’ but means that the son is THE MOST LOVED of all creation. Trinitarians and JW argue over thus point constantly and to no avail because they do not understand what ‘firstborn’ here does not mean ‘FIRST BORN’ as in chronologically in time! And, besides the farce that trinity puts up that Jesus was never born - they would most certainly, otherwise be saying exactly that Jesus was ‘BORN FIRST’!! Born but not born!!! Ha ha ha!!

Verse 17 says the same thing. The son of God is ‘BEFORE ALL THINGS’… which I told you means ‘GREATER THAN’ all things, which is right, of course. The waters, the land, the vegetation, the animals, were all great creations but the Son of man is the greatest creation; the image of god in the flesh is greater than all other creations!

And the first born from the dead… Since when was God Dead to be first born from it?

Indeed, in Revelation, THE FATHER says of himself:

• ‘I am he who was, is, and always will be; the eternal’

And, Jesus says:

• ‘I am he that WAS DEAD but am now alive eternally’

And of course, God raised up Jesus FROM THE DEAD and made him ALIVE ETERNALLY (Immortal).

How can the Son of God have created when he was born of THE SEED OF A WOMAN and MADE TO BE HOLY by the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit and EMPOWERED by the Holy Spirit IN THE WORLD that you say he created before he even EXISTED??

If you believe in what you say you believe in then you would have no problem answering IN FULL and with CREDIBLE EVIDENCE FROM THE SCRIPTURES.

@John 1.12, can you write what you believe in such a way that demonstrates what you believe - or do you just live by quoting verses with no explanation … because you cannot explain it.

 

[joelr]

If you believe in what you say you believe in then you would have no problem answering IN FULL and with CREDIBLE EVIDENCE FROM THE SCRIPTURES.
.

Gospel of John - Wikipedia
"The gospel of John, like all the gospels, is anonymous. ( Barnabas Lindars Professor of Biblical Criticism and Exegesis)


Jesus is not God
"Scholars agree that while John clearly regards Jesus as divine, he just as clearly subordinates him to the one God.[35] The idea of the Trinity developed only slowly through the merger of Hebrew monotheism and the idea of the messiah, Greek ideas of the relationship between God, the world, and the mediating Saviour, and the Egyptian concept of the three-part divinity.[36] John's "high Christology" depicts Jesus as divine and pre-existent, defends him against Jewish claims that he was "making himself equal to God"[37],[38] and talks openly about his divine role and echoing Yahweh's "I Am that I Am" with seven "I Am" declarations of his own."

37 -Hillar, Marian (2012). From Logos to Trinity
38 -Professor Hurtado, Larry W.

Historical reliability

Not likely history:


"The teachings of Jesus found in the synoptic gospels are very different from those recorded in John, and since the 19th century scholars have almost unanimously accepted that these Johannine discourses are less likely than the synoptic parables to be historical, and were likely written for theological purposes.[98]

-Parish Sanders FBA (born 18 April 1937) is an American New Testament scholar -98


Again, consensus of scholarship is that the writings in John are theological musings. Not eyewitness accounts like you were told in church.

 

[Soapy]

Gospel of John - Wikipedia
"The gospel of John, like all the gospels, is anonymous. ( Barnabas Lindars Professor of Biblical Criticism and Exegesis)


Jesus is not God
"Scholars agree that while John clearly regards Jesus as divine, he just as clearly subordinates him to the one God.[35] The idea of the Trinity developed only slowly through the merger of Hebrew monotheism and the idea of the messiah, Greek ideas of the relationship between God, the world, and the mediating Saviour, and the Egyptian concept of the three-part divinity.[36] John's "high Christology" depicts Jesus as divine and pre-existent, defends him against Jewish claims that he was "making himself equal to God"[37],[38] and talks openly about his divine role and echoing Yahweh's "I Am that I Am" with seven "I Am" declarations of his own."

37 -Hillar, Marian (2012). From Logos to Trinity
38 -Professor Hurtado, Larry W.

Historical reliability

Not likely history:


"The teachings of Jesus found in the synoptic gospels are very different from those recorded in John, and since the 19th century scholars have almost unanimously accepted that these Johannine discourses are less likely than the synoptic parables to be historical, and were likely written for theological purposes.[98]

-Parish Sanders FBA (born 18 April 1937) is an American New Testament scholar -98


Again, consensus of scholarship is that the writings in John are theological musings. Not eyewitness accounts like you were told in church.

Yes, joelr, quite right what you say and reference.

No disrespect, I beg you please, but the proof is inherent in the scriptures without external references.

I understand that exegesis and scholarly criticisms are the approach of those seeking professional and expert knowledge of the scriptures, and that is great and welcomed … but I like to keep my posts firmly as possible within the scriptures simply because any poster can bring ‘evidence’ from external sources and plough them into the thread as though they were sacrosanct… then the thread posts becomes a ‘He said, she said’ ricocheting of personal inputs from ‘side liners’ - Rather like a one-on-one fight where one or both participants sudden bring in fighters from among the watchers and unbalance the match. It doesn’t express the fighting authority of the two, protagonists and antagonists, alone. And for this reason, and I’m glad it hasn’t happened here, I would disallow trinity Creeds as evidence of Jesus being God.. or anything, in fact, because the INPUTTER of such cannot explain what someone(s) else thought when they devised the creeds nor is it a belief that I would agree to at any cost: a stand-off would ensue and nothing would be achieved.

Argue only from the immediate source along with footnotes of commonality such that we can agree with the text taken from a common source.

The problem with @john 1.12, is that he rarely ever evidences what he claims to believe. And, in the face of absolute truth of a verse or purpose of a verse, he openly denies…., or ignores… what is said so as not to have to agree to that truth.

From his minimalist responses it is also clear that he has little knowledge of the scriptures, and is just thrashing about hoping to hit a lucky verse or theme from whichever trinity doctrine or ideology that he clings to.

The fact that he seems not to understand that the New Testament is concerning the messiah, the Christ, the son of God in the flesh who majestically and selflessly gave his life as a sacrifice for the sin of the first son of God, Adam, is telling from his outburst that I keep showing the humanity of Jesus … yet… how is he showing what he claims is the DIVINITY of Jesus… (though, to be honest, I don’t actually fully know what he means by ‘Divinity of Jesus’ because he refuses to define words that he uses - and those I ask him to define… The reality bring that he knows that to define those words would DISCREDIT his belief!

One of the most obvious definitions he runs away from is, ‘Father’:

• “He who creates”
• “He who gives life”
• “He who brings into being”

In Romans 4:17, an apostle is speaking about almighty God and the Faith of Abraham:

• “As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed--the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not.” (Romans 4:17)

Here, Old Testament verse has God glorifying Abraham and saying that He, God, made Abraham to be ‘FATHER’ to many nations [to come]. You can replace ‘Father’ with any of the definition terms and see the value of its credibility:

• “I have made you to be the creator of many nations”
• “I have made you to be he who brings into being many nations”
• “I have made you to be he who gives life to many nations”

The verse goes on to say that Abraham is the ‘Father’ [of those nations] in the sight of God, in whom he believed. And the apostle further defines whom ‘God’ is: ‘The one who GIVES LIFE to the dead and BRINGS INTO BEING things that were not [already existing]’

@John 1.12 would not respond to this verse nor these expressions as it clearly marks GOD out as being what he says only Jesus is… and yet he cannot say that Jesus is ‘Father’.

And, as for the final end of time: Jesus takes his seat as RULER over mankind… ‘Firstborn’ over creation because he is the greatest love of the Father, he is ‘BEFORE’ all things created.

But, I also suspect that if @John 1.12 were to actually believe what has been shown to him he would be lost in terms of where he would turn to among friends, family, church, and continued belief… So he simply ignores the truth and whimpers away to another thread post hoping to spread the virus of trinity in safety away from the vaccine of truth.

But I have warned him of the consequences of his action - not judged him - just warned him because even:

• “God judges no one but has put all judgement into the hands of the Son”

Ha! God is the Judge of all judges… and has handed that judgement to the Son… So, what judgement did the son have PRIOR to God granting him the judgement seat?

Can a trinitarian answer that? I think not, least not with credulity!!

 

[John1.12]

The final thrashings of a snake!

John 1:1 is not speaking about Jesus…..

The verses claiming that Jesus created all things are corruptions by trinitarian translators.

Those verses originally stated that ‘GOD created all things’ FOR THE SON.

John 1:3 is speaking about ‘the word of God’, which is the word spoken by God at the beginning:

• ‘Let there be light….’

Trinitarian translators wilfully and treacherously chose to put ‘HE’ instead of ‘IT’ as the object that created because it would give credit to their miscreant belief. The Greek did not suggest any gender for ‘the word of God’. And you cannot see that the CREATOR is FATHER… so when I ask you to define ‘Father’, you refuse or stay silent.
That doesn’t do yourself anything worthy to be incapable of defining what you mean by words snd terms. Worse, it’s not that you cannot define it to me but that doing so would DISCREDIT your belief… Sad!!

You see the part where it says, ‘it was created for him’? Yes, the CREATOR, which is what ‘Father’ means, created the world and all things in it ‘FOR HIM’, FOR THE SON.

I wrote this to you: God created a limited PHYSICAL WORLD (a ‘flesh’ world) out of the vastness of the endless SPIRIT WORLD and put the image of himself in it to rule over it. And he put ONE MAN to be its overall RULER, and that would be ‘Father in flesh’, which would have been the first man ADAM, born SINLESS, HOLY, and RIGHTEOUS by means of GOD’s Holy Spirit. But Adam sinned and caused all mankind, ALL ADAM’S offspring to be born in sin - and since only a sinless pure blood offering could sate the anger of God ANOTHER HOLY SPIRIT enlivening man had to be created… hence: ‘The Holy Spirit shall overshadow you therefore the child to be born to you will be HOLY and called, the Son of God’ - just as ADAM was ‘Son of God’ .. until he sinned.
But not only that: The holy angels of heaven are also ‘SONS OF GOD’ because all things with spirit in them are ENLIVENED by the Holy Spirit … the SPIRIT OF THE FATHER: The Father of Spirits!!

The verses in Colossians 1:9-16 says:

• (9) “For this reason, since the day we heard about you, we have not stopped praying for you. We continually ask God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all the wisdom and understanding that the Spirit gives,
  
• (10) so that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,
  
• (11) being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience,
  
• (12) and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light.
  
• (13) For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
  
• (14) in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
  
• (15) The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
  
• (16) For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
• (17) He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
  
• (18) And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.“

Verse 15 says that the Son is the IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE GOD… @John 1.12, Jesus is the IMAGE OF GOD IN THE FLESH… an IMAGE IS NOT THE THING IT IS THE IMAGE OF!!! The IMAGE IF GOD IS NOT GOD from who the image came from!!

Jesus says that he CAN ONLY DO WHAT HE SEES THE FATHER DO. So how could he have been the ONE OFF CREATOR of the physical world if the Father had not created BEFORE HIM?

Verse 15 ALSO says that the Son is FIRSTBORN over creation… This is not a CHRONOLOGICAL ‘first’ but means that the son is THE MOST LOVED of all creation. Trinitarians and JW argue over thus point constantly and to no avail because they do not understand what ‘firstborn’ here does not mean ‘FIRST BORN’ as in chronologically in time! And, besides the farce that trinity puts up that Jesus was never born - they would most certainly, otherwise be saying exactly that Jesus was ‘BORN FIRST’!! Born but not born!!! Ha ha ha!!

Verse 17 says the same thing. The son of God is ‘BEFORE ALL THINGS’… which I told you means ‘GREATER THAN’ all things, which is right, of course. The waters, the land, the vegetation, the animals, were all great creations but the Son of man is the greatest creation; the image of god in the flesh is greater than all other creations!

And the first born from the dead… Since when was God Dead to be first born from it?

Indeed, in Revelation, THE FATHER says of himself:

• ‘I am he who was, is, and always will be; the eternal’

And, Jesus says:

• ‘I am he that WAS DEAD but am now alive eternally’

And of course, God raised up Jesus FROM THE DEAD and made him ALIVE ETERNALLY (Immortal).

How can the Son of God have created when he was born of THE SEED OF A WOMAN and MADE TO BE HOLY by the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit and EMPOWERED by the Holy Spirit IN THE WORLD that you say he created before he even EXISTED??

If you believe in what you say you believe in then you would have no problem answering IN FULL and with CREDIBLE EVIDENCE FROM THE SCRIPTURES.

@John 1.12, can you write what you believe in such a way that demonstrates what you believe - or do you just live by quoting verses with no explanation … because you cannot explain it.

Col 1.16
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Good grief man ,are you unwell? look at what it says .

 

[John1.12]

The final thrashings of a snake!

John 1:1 is not speaking about Jesus…..

The verses claiming that Jesus created all things are corruptions by trinitarian translators.

Those verses originally stated that ‘GOD created all things’ FOR THE SON.

John 1:3 is speaking about ‘the word of God’, which is the word spoken by God at the beginning:

• ‘Let there be light….’

Trinitarian translators wilfully and treacherously chose to put ‘HE’ instead of ‘IT’ as the object that created because it would give credit to their miscreant belief. The Greek did not suggest any gender for ‘the word of God’. And you cannot see that the CREATOR is FATHER… so when I ask you to define ‘Father’, you refuse or stay silent.
That doesn’t do yourself anything worthy to be incapable of defining what you mean by words snd terms. Worse, it’s not that you cannot define it to me but that doing so would DISCREDIT your belief… Sad!!

You see the part where it says, ‘it was created for him’? Yes, the CREATOR, which is what ‘Father’ means, created the world and all things in it ‘FOR HIM’, FOR THE SON.

I wrote this to you: God created a limited PHYSICAL WORLD (a ‘flesh’ world) out of the vastness of the endless SPIRIT WORLD and put the image of himself in it to rule over it. And he put ONE MAN to be its overall RULER, and that would be ‘Father in flesh’, which would have been the first man ADAM, born SINLESS, HOLY, and RIGHTEOUS by means of GOD’s Holy Spirit. But Adam sinned and caused all mankind, ALL ADAM’S offspring to be born in sin - and since only a sinless pure blood offering could sate the anger of God ANOTHER HOLY SPIRIT enlivening man had to be created… hence: ‘The Holy Spirit shall overshadow you therefore the child to be born to you will be HOLY and called, the Son of God’ - just as ADAM was ‘Son of God’ .. until he sinned.
But not only that: The holy angels of heaven are also ‘SONS OF GOD’ because all things with spirit in them are ENLIVENED by the Holy Spirit … the SPIRIT OF THE FATHER: The Father of Spirits!!

The verses in Colossians 1:9-16 says:

• (9) “For this reason, since the day we heard about you, we have not stopped praying for you. We continually ask God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all the wisdom and understanding that the Spirit gives,
  
• (10) so that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,
  
• (11) being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience,
  
• (12) and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light.
  
• (13) For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
  
• (14) in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
  
• (15) The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
  
• (16) For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
• (17) He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
  
• (18) And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.“

Verse 15 says that the Son is the IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE GOD… @John 1.12, Jesus is the IMAGE OF GOD IN THE FLESH… an IMAGE IS NOT THE THING IT IS THE IMAGE OF!!! The IMAGE IF GOD IS NOT GOD from who the image came from!!

Jesus says that he CAN ONLY DO WHAT HE SEES THE FATHER DO. So how could he have been the ONE OFF CREATOR of the physical world if the Father had not created BEFORE HIM?

Verse 15 ALSO says that the Son is FIRSTBORN over creation… This is not a CHRONOLOGICAL ‘first’ but means that the son is THE MOST LOVED of all creation. Trinitarians and JW argue over thus point constantly and to no avail because they do not understand what ‘firstborn’ here does not mean ‘FIRST BORN’ as in chronologically in time! And, besides the farce that trinity puts up that Jesus was never born - they would most certainly, otherwise be saying exactly that Jesus was ‘BORN FIRST’!! Born but not born!!! Ha ha ha!!

Verse 17 says the same thing. The son of God is ‘BEFORE ALL THINGS’… which I told you means ‘GREATER THAN’ all things, which is right, of course. The waters, the land, the vegetation, the animals, were all great creations but the Son of man is the greatest creation; the image of god in the flesh is greater than all other creations!

And the first born from the dead… Since when was God Dead to be first born from it?

Indeed, in Revelation, THE FATHER says of himself:

• ‘I am he who was, is, and always will be; the eternal’

And, Jesus says:

• ‘I am he that WAS DEAD but am now alive eternally’

And of course, God raised up Jesus FROM THE DEAD and made him ALIVE ETERNALLY (Immortal).

How can the Son of God have created when he was born of THE SEED OF A WOMAN and MADE TO BE HOLY by the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit and EMPOWERED by the Holy Spirit IN THE WORLD that you say he created before he even EXISTED??

If you believe in what you say you believe in then you would have no problem answering IN FULL and with CREDIBLE EVIDENCE FROM THE SCRIPTURES.

@John 1.12, can you write what you believe in such a way that demonstrates what you believe - or do you just live by quoting verses with no explanation … because you cannot explain it.

This is the worst paraphrase I've ever seen lol . Come on man ,you cannot let the verses say as they read. Look at all the bluster and tap dancing you do to the text

 

[Soapy]

Col 1.16
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Good grief man ,are you unwell? look at what it says .

What is the meaning of the word, ‘Father’, in terms of creation?

 

[Soapy]

This is the worst paraphrase I've ever seen lol . Come on man ,you cannot let the verses say as they read. Look at all the bluster and tap dancing you do to the text

As I stated, all you do is post a verse and then walk away claiming it shows Jesus is God.

How is the physical world created BY Jesus FOR Jesus…?

Why would ‘god’ create a limited physical flesh world and want to become its ruler … yet it is the Father (which means: ‘Creator’, ‘bringer into existence’, ‘Life giver’) who GRANTS the man to be its ruler?

Do you read that Jesus is HEIR to God… and you say Jesus IS GOD that he is HEIR to?

Are you just going to quote another purposeless verse and walk away seeing by now you are just taking the proverbial - now you know the truth you are just joking around … rolling on the floor with laughter at pizzy empty comments?

 

[moorea944]

Col 1.16
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Good grief man ,are you unwell? look at what it says .

OK, let's just see it this way for a minute. Jesus created everything, which he didnt of course, but let's just say. He had the power to do that. Then, he lost that power, then.... God gave it back to him at some point? If that's really the case, why? Doesnt make sense, does it.....

An immortal Jesus, then mortal, then immortal. Really?

Other versions say, and for him all things were created. Which one is right? I told you meanings can change with which version of the bible your reading.