So What is Europe Supposed to Do, Exactly?

[Sonofason]

So Europe has this problem. It's called Islamic terrorism. Terrorist attacks carried out by Muslims are now a common feature in the news and other places. We also have a mostly Muslim migrant crisis that is filling Europe full of Daesh supporters who disguise themselves as moderates.

When we say we want to stop Islamic immigration we are called racists.

So what exactly is Europe supposed to do?

There are countries with very strict immigration laws like Poland and Hungary - these places have far, far fewer Islamic terrorist attacks than France, Germany and the UK, who allow in many more migrants then Hungary and Poland.

But we're all racists for proposing that it has something to do with Islam and 'refugees'.

So, again, what is it that Europe is supposed to do, according to these Islamophiles?

You simply take every non-citizen and remove them from the country. You forget about political correctness, and understand that it is the most stupid endeavor humanity has undertaken.

 

[psychoslice]

Well, send them back where they come from, that easy.

 

[LuisDantas]

You simply take every non-citizen and remove them from the country.

That would be a temporary deterrent at the very best. We all deserve seeking true solutions instead.

 

[Sunstone]

Apparently.

But then you'll also be told that there's no such thing as race; that it's just a social construct.

Because logic.

Not logic, science. Specifically biology and genetics. I'm neither endorsing nor criticizing the view that racial concepts are arbitrary, but merely observing that the view is by and large based on information from biology and genetics. [/digression]

 

[Sunstone]

Rival, if you ever have a chance, get hold of Thomas Sowell's book, Ethnic America. Sowell's scholarship is impeccable, and he traces about 15 immigrant groups in America -- their economic, political, and social integration into American society. I think reading him will suggest to you where European societies went wrong when it came to Muslim immigration and why you have the problems you do today.

By the way, Sowell is a conservative, albeit his politics has precious little to do with his excellent scholarship.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

Sorry to interrupt......just wanted to interject some facts.

and.....

So. First of all, western Europe is perhaps the single safest place on the planet if you want to avoid terrorism.
Second: The current rise in terror attacks has in fact been mostly from extremists who claim to be Islamic. But different from the much more frequent IRA and Neo-nazi etc... terror attacks of the past, these current ones are usually larger fatality numbers per attack and they have a lot more video footage (thanks to modern tech), both of which leads to splashier news and more.... well..... terror.
Third: the second point allows for much more exploitation of the attacks in the news, particularly feeding on the fearful and ill-informed....usually with short-sighted (and ineffectual) 'solutions' suggested to this same subset of the population. Similar to what we have seen in the US with "rampant voter fraud", the 'summer of the shark', or rapists and murdering drug dealers streaming across the Mexico border.
Fourth: Many of the attacks are from long term European citizens, who, years after immigrating, have been 'radicalized' to use violence. While the incoming refugees and other immigrants are almost to the man/woman/and child, just trying to escape much worse in other parts of the world, and come with no ill will toward their receiving country.

One more fact. No amount of terroism is acceptable, and it must be stopped. But worthless 'answers' like "throw them all out!", or forming gangs to go beat up refugees will result in any kind of increased 'safety'.

I'm not a socialogist or population psychologist, but I'm willing to bet that any worth a grain of salt could come up with more verifiably, numerically successful ways to decrease terrorist attacks.

 

[ShivaFan]

France as a vassal and tenant to the EU and global bankers will continue being a danger to all of Europe by letting in and coddling Sharia Law advocates and Islamic extremists.

Macron has no political will to end the occupation, Islamic terrorism will continue it's deadly attacks and the occupation and enclaves into French lands, the terrorist acts will not cease and the most deadly and horrific terrorist attack will happen now, it is only a matter of time and is very close now.

What a sad day, because not only will French die, many others will as well due to the wrong choices France has made.

At some point they will realize they are being surrounded, gated into their own last enclaves, if something is not done before it reaches that point then we will see a "mass adrenaline, mass mind" take place as certain chemicals waiting in every human are released to the brain and take over and it will be ugly. House to house fighting.

 

[Rival]

Sorry to interrupt......just wanted to interject some facts.

and.....

So. First of all, western Europe is perhaps the single safest place on the planet if you want to avoid terrorism.
Second: The current rise in terror attacks has in fact been mostly from extremists who claim to be Islamic. But different from the much more frequent IRA and Neo-nazi etc... terror attacks of the past, these current ones are usually larger fatality numbers per attack and they have a lot more video footage (thanks to modern tech), both of which leads to splashier news and more.... well..... terror.
Third: the second point allows for much more exploitation of the attacks in the news, particularly feeding on the fearful and ill-informed....usually with short-sighted (and ineffectual) 'solutions' suggested to this same subset of the population. Similar to what we have seen in the US with "rampant voter fraud", the 'summer of the shark', or rapists and murdering drug dealers streaming across the Mexico border.
Fourth: Many of the attacks are from long term European citizens, who, years after immigrating, have been 'radicalized' to use violence. While the incoming refugees and other immigrants are almost to the man/woman/and child, just trying to escape much worse in other parts of the world, and come with no ill will toward their receiving country.

One more fact. No amount of terroism is acceptable, and it must be stopped. But worthless 'answers' like "throw them all out!", or forming gangs to go beat up refugees will result in any kind of increased 'safety'.

I'm not a socialogist or population psychologist, but I'm willing to bet that any worth a grain of salt could come up with more verifiably, numerically successful ways to decrease terrorist attacks.

The fact that you think these terrorist aren't really Islamic tells me all I need to know.

 

[Rival]

Sorry to interrupt......just wanted to interject some facts.

and.....

So. First of all, western Europe is perhaps the single safest place on the planet if you want to avoid terrorism.
Second: The current rise in terror attacks has in fact been mostly from extremists who claim to be Islamic. But different from the much more frequent IRA and Neo-nazi etc... terror attacks of the past, these current ones are usually larger fatality numbers per attack and they have a lot more video footage (thanks to modern tech), both of which leads to splashier news and more.... well..... terror.
Third: the second point allows for much more exploitation of the attacks in the news, particularly feeding on the fearful and ill-informed....usually with short-sighted (and ineffectual) 'solutions' suggested to this same subset of the population. Similar to what we have seen in the US with "rampant voter fraud", the 'summer of the shark', or rapists and murdering drug dealers streaming across the Mexico border.
Fourth: Many of the attacks are from long term European citizens, who, years after immigrating, have been 'radicalized' to use violence. While the incoming refugees and other immigrants are almost to the man/woman/and child, just trying to escape much worse in other parts of the world, and come with no ill will toward their receiving country.

One more fact. No amount of terroism is acceptable, and it must be stopped. But worthless 'answers' like "throw them all out!", or forming gangs to go beat up refugees will result in any kind of increased 'safety'.

I'm not a socialogist or population psychologist, but I'm willing to bet that any worth a grain of salt could come up with more verifiably, numerically successful ways to decrease terrorist attacks.

Would you like to live here?

This is Paris.

Do you know that also in some parts of France, women are barred from mixing with men because of Muslims? Or that Muslims have blocked the road when praying because their illegally built Mosques were torn down? Do you know that there are no-go zones in France where non-Muslims are effectively barred? or that in France some girls are afraid to go out at night by themselves? That French police officers defied their trade unions to vote for Le Pen because they are sick to death (literally) of Islamic nutjobs ruining their once civilised country?

Do you know that also in Germany, women are petrified to go out alone? Or that the police have been effectively stopped from apprehending migrant offenders and that coverage of migrant offences is banned in their media? That Merkel said she would close the borders but only let in more refugees and now we haven't even any real stats? Or the Austrian asshat who told women to wear the hijab? That women in Germany have also been told to wear hijab? Do you know that many Germans feel their country is finished and no news media outlet is reporting on it?

Will you let your children live there?

Do your stats tell you this?

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

Vanakkam

I live in Paris. Safe to think I know better than you.
All the mosque I see are legal. There is even a big new one being constructed in Nanterre.
Thé picture seems to be from Barbès Rochechouart. It's just aside the Tamil neighborhood, I pass there a few times a week and never had any problem. People are very nice there and they don't block the street to pray (or maybe once a year for a celebration, like we Hindu do at the same place for Ganesha Chathurti). They do that in Toulouse also, a public prayer for Ramadan , what is the matter here?
There are not no go zones in Paris. I walk everywhere holding a woman's hand and there are absolutely no problem at all.

What I see tho, are children and women from Syria who starve in some metro stations.

I think it's more like this :

- You don't want to talk politics here, you just hate Muslims.
- you equate all Muslims with terrorists.
- you spread completely false information. I live in Paris. You don't. You're free to come and visit anytime I'll show you the places you're talking about but until then,stop spreading false **** to just spread your fear.

Aum Namah Shivaya

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Death penalty or state enforced atheism. They gave us no choice.

I disagree. The death penalty is something Islamists are often used to as Islamic societies sometimes use it. Further, I don't trust politicians (British or Scottish) enough to hand them the power to put people to death hoping they'll simply relinquish it at some undisclosed point in the future. It's like when the Republic Senate handed Chancellor Palpatine emergency powers.

As for state-sanctioned atheism: no. Just no. Various Communist regimes tried that and it didn't work. It creates a tyranny of the mind - thought crime and it'd be every bit as repressive as an Islamic theocracy.

I don't think so. This ideology has expanded to worship without interference from the State, to worship without interference from anyone. On these grounds, Islamic ideology that threatens the free worship (or non-worship) of their fellow citizens can and should be justly opposed and outrooted. And frankly, I don't think we should stop with Muslims that think like this; I think that organizations like the Army of God, Westboro Baptists, and even the Asatru Folk Assembly should be thoroughly investigated, and prosecuted as hate groups and threats to religious freedom and liberty should significant threat be found.

I agree but every attempt to link Islamism to Islam is consistently met with accusations of racism, Islamophobia, bigotry and ignorance. More over, if we start doing this, even as we're doing it to other groups like the Army of God, WBC and the AFA at the same time, Islamophiles will some how spin this into a narrative that Muslims are being singled out. I'm not saying what you've said is a bad idea - it's actually a really good point. I'm just saying that for Islamophiles it seems like anything other than blind acceptance of what they tell us Islam is, has to be, is unacceptable.

 

[Rival]

I disagree. The death penalty is something Islamists are often used to as Islamic societies sometimes use it. Further, I don't trust politicians (British or Scottish) enough to hand them the power to put people to death hoping they'll simply relinquish it at some undisclosed point in the future. It's like when the Republic Senate handed Chancellor Palpatine emergency powers.

As for state-sanctioned atheism: no. Just no. Various Communist regimes tried that and it didn't work. It creates a tyranny of the mind - thought crime and it'd be every bit as repressive as an Islamic theocracy.

What else can you suggest?

I just want rid of Islam. Period. It cannot be trusted.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Sorry to interrupt......just wanted to interject some facts.

and.....

So. First of all, western Europe is perhaps the single safest place on the planet if you want to avoid terrorism.
Second: The current rise in terror attacks has in fact been mostly from extremists who claim to be Islamic. But different from the much more frequent IRA and Neo-nazi etc... terror attacks of the past, these current ones are usually larger fatality numbers per attack and they have a lot more video footage (thanks to modern tech), both of which leads to splashier news and more.... well..... terror.
Third: the second point allows for much more exploitation of the attacks in the news, particularly feeding on the fearful and ill-informed....usually with short-sighted (and ineffectual) 'solutions' suggested to this same subset of the population. Similar to what we have seen in the US with "rampant voter fraud", the 'summer of the shark', or rapists and murdering drug dealers streaming across the Mexico border.
Fourth: Many of the attacks are from long term European citizens, who, years after immigrating, have been 'radicalized' to use violence. While the incoming refugees and other immigrants are almost to the man/woman/and child, just trying to escape much worse in other parts of the world, and come with no ill will toward their receiving country.

One more fact. No amount of terroism is acceptable, and it must be stopped. But worthless 'answers' like "throw them all out!", or forming gangs to go beat up refugees will result in any kind of increased 'safety'.

I'm not a socialogist or population psychologist, but I'm willing to bet that any worth a grain of salt could come up with more verifiably, numerically successful ways to decrease terrorist attacks.

Your graphs simply show that Islamists are a danger - but mostly to other Muslims and non-Muslim minorities in Muslim countries. How long will it be before that changes and they become an even bigger danger to us? Your fourth point merely demonstrates that it's Islam more than Muslims themselves which is the danger as even non-Muslims can be converted to Islam and convinced to use violence.

 

[Altfish]

Would you like to live here?

View attachment 17153


This is Paris.

Do you know that also in some parts of France, women are barred from mixing with men because of Muslims? Or that Muslims have blocked the road when praying because their illegally built Mosques were torn down? Do you know that there are no-go zones in France where non-Muslims are effectively barred? or that in France some girls are afraid to go out at night by themselves? That French police officers defied their trade unions to vote for Le Pen because they are sick to death (literally) of Islamic nutjobs ruining their once civilised country?

Do you know that also in Germany, women are petrified to go out alone? Or that the police have been effectively stopped from apprehending migrant offenders and that coverage of migrant offences is banned in their media? That Merkel said she would close the borders but only let in more refugees and now we haven't even any real stats? Or the Austrian asshat who told women to wear the hijab? That women in Germany have also been told to wear hijab? Do you know that many Germans feel their country is finished and no news media outlet is reporting on it?

Will you let your children live there?

Do your stats tell you this?

Slight exaggeration here, reads like a Fox News article.

YES, there are issues with integration but Germany is not a no-go place for women; I was there recently and am going back in September, it is fine. My wife and sister-in-law will be going too, I certainly do not intent to escort them when I head off on my own. Similarly with France, your picture of Paris is something I have never seen; you could just as easily posted a picture of people outside bars enjoying morning coffee in the sun.

In every large city there are no-go zones where you are likely to be attacked; it is more likely that you will come to harm in a deprived area of 'local' people than other areas.

That said the creation of enclaves of one ethnic origin is a worry, similarly they have to be policed in a secular manner. Brick Lane in London hit the headlines a couple of years ago but even the Daily Mail has stopped talking about it now.

We havn't got it right, I'm not sure what the answer is, but scare stories like your post are definitely not the answer.

 

[Rival]

Slight exaggeration here, reads like a Fox News article.

YES, there are issues with integration but Germany is not a no-go place for women; I was there recently and am going back in September, it is fine. My wife and sister-in-law will be going too, I certainly do not intent to escort them when I head off on my own. Similarly with France, your picture of Paris is something I have never seen; you could just as easily posted a picture of people outside bars enjoying morning coffee in the sun.

In every large city there are no-go zones where you are likely to be attacked; it is more likely that you will come to harm in a deprived area of 'local' people than other areas.

That said the creation of enclaves of one ethnic origin is a worry, similarly they have to be policed in a secular manner. Brick Lane in London hit the headlines a couple of years ago but even the Daily Mail has stopped talking about it now.

We havn't got it right, I'm not sure what the answer is, but scare stories like your post are definitely not the answer.

'This isn't Paris. It's only men here' - Inside the French Muslim no-go zones where women aren't welcome

"The bar in the impoverished north-eastern suburb of Sevran is accused of being one of many in France where women are effectively banned.

The neighbourhood, near Charles de Gaulle airport, is notorious as one of France’s leading exporters of jihadists.

“Au Jockey Club” is clearly a male preserve — there were no women when The Telegraph visited — but it serves alcohol and feels more akin to a high street bookmaker than a den of Islamists. Licensed as a betting shop, its mainly French Arab patrons gazed intently at giant screens showing the races at Deauville.

A secretly-filmed French TV news report this week showed two women’s rights campaigners, Nadia Remadna and Aziza Sayah, being told not to enter the bar."

Migrant rape fears across Europe as women are told not to go out at night alone | Daily Mail Online

"Finland and Sweden today became the latest European countries to issue warnings to women to be wary of the threat of sex attacks following fresh reports of sexual assaults in the last week, while the Viennese police chief adviced women not to go outside alone in Vienna.

The warnings come as reports emerged that Austrian and German police tried to cover-up the issue over fears of reprisal attacks on asylum seekers and damage to the countries' tourist trade.

Dozens of arrests have been made today in connection with the wave of recent sex attacks across Europe."

Markus Söder warns Germany must deport 'hundreds of thousands' of migrants | Daily Mail Online

"A German politician has warned that the country is losing control of its streets, and has called for mass deportation of migrants.

Markus Söder, finance and home minister in Bavaria, made the comments following the murder of teenager Maria Ladenburger, and nearly a year since hundreds of sex assaults in Cologne.

He warned: 'Our women and daughters are increasingly afraid of sexual assaults.'"

Every woman should wear a hijab to protest Isamaphobia, says Austria's President

Vote FN: ces policiers qui tournent le dos à leurs syndicats pour voter Le Pen

"FN vote: these policemen who turn their backs on their unions to vote Le Pen"

It goes on and on.

 

[Altfish]

'This isn't Paris. It's only men here' - Inside the French Muslim no-go zones where women aren't welcome

"The bar in the impoverished north-eastern suburb of Sevran is accused of being one of many in France where women are effectively banned.

The neighbourhood, near Charles de Gaulle airport, is notorious as one of France’s leading exporters of jihadists.

“Au Jockey Club” is clearly a male preserve — there were no women when The Telegraph visited — but it serves alcohol and feels more akin to a high street bookmaker than a den of Islamists. Licensed as a betting shop, its mainly French Arab patrons gazed intently at giant screens showing the races at Deauville.

A secretly-filmed French TV news report this week showed two women’s rights campaigners, Nadia Remadna and Aziza Sayah, being told not to enter the bar."

Migrant rape fears across Europe as women are told not to go out at night alone | Daily Mail Online

"Finland and Sweden today became the latest European countries to issue warnings to women to be wary of the threat of sex attacks following fresh reports of sexual assaults in the last week, while the Viennese police chief adviced women not to go outside alone in Vienna.

The warnings come as reports emerged that Austrian and German police tried to cover-up the issue over fears of reprisal attacks on asylum seekers and damage to the countries' tourist trade.

Dozens of arrests have been made today in connection with the wave of recent sex attacks across Europe."

Markus Söder warns Germany must deport 'hundreds of thousands' of migrants | Daily Mail Online

"A German politician has warned that the country is losing control of its streets, and has called for mass deportation of migrants.

Markus Söder, finance and home minister in Bavaria, made the comments following the murder of teenager Maria Ladenburger, and nearly a year since hundreds of sex assaults in Cologne.

He warned: 'Our women and daughters are increasingly afraid of sexual assaults.'"

Every woman should wear a hijab to protest Isamaphobia, says Austria's President

Vote FN: ces policiers qui tournent le dos à leurs syndicats pour voter Le Pen

"FN vote: these policemen who turn their backs on their unions to vote Le Pen"

It goes on and on.

Yes, I said there are some enclaves that need sorting.

You said "Do you know that also in Germany, women are petrified to go out alone?" - that is not the case. 99.999% of Germany is fine. There are plenty of places in the UK that are unsafe, most have nothing to do with 'foreigners'.
These are isolated incidents in very localised areas that have normally been stamped on.

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

Vanakkam

I live in Paris. Safe to think I know better than you.
All the mosque I see are legal. There is even a big new one being constructed in Nanterre.
Thé picture seems to be from Barbès Rochechouart. It's just aside the Tamil neighborhood, I pass there a few times a week and never had any problem. People are very nice there and they don't block the street to pray (or maybe once a year for a celebration, like we Hindu do at the same place for Ganesha Chathurti). They do that in Toulouse also, a public prayer for Ramadan , what is the matter here?
There are not no go zones in Paris. I walk everywhere holding a woman's hand and there are absolutely no problem at all.

What I see tho, are children and women from Syria who starve in some metro stations.

I think it's more like this :

- You don't want to talk politics here, you just hate Muslims.
- you equate all Muslims with terrorists.
- you spread completely false information. I live in Paris. You don't. You're free to come and visit anytime I'll show you the places you're talking about but until then,stop spreading false **** to just spread your fear.

Aum Namah Shivaya

Ignoring facts won't make them go away.

 

[Rival]

Yes, I said there are some enclaves that need sorting.

You said "Do you know that also in Germany, women are petrified to go out alone?" - that is not the case. 99.999% of Germany is fine. There are plenty of places in the UK that are unsafe, most have nothing to do with 'foreigners'.
These are isolated incidents in very localised areas that have normally been stamped on.

But if we keep importing them, these 'local incidents' will become bigger.

 

[Altfish]

But if we keep importing them, these 'local incidents' will become bigger.

Perhaps, but we are nowhere near your apocalyptic description of these countries.
Perhaps you could have a world with my PM, tell Mrs May to stop funding religious schools; that would be a start.

 

[LuisDantas]

But if we keep importing them, these 'local incidents' will become bigger.

Without enough integration, that is a distinct possibility.

A good argument for the importance of integration. Never for "closed borders".