So What's God up to?

[Skwim]

Being omniscient, god knew that after having made Adam and Eve Satan would tempt them into eating the apple. So preforming as god had wanted him to, Satan was simply a tool of god. But having played his role in infusing all of humanity with original sin, why does god still allow Satan to harm the world? He's continually being blamed for the ills of humankind throughout the world.
To me, it's obvious that he's still pleasing god--if god didn't condone Satan's work surely he would stop him. So what's god up to?

.

 

[Akivah]

Being omniscient, god knew that after having made Adam and Eve Satan would tempt them into eating the apple. So preforming as god had wanted him to, Satan was simply a tool of god. But having played his role in infusing all of humanity with original sin, why does god still allow Satan to harm the world? He's continually being blamed for the ills of humankind throughout the world.
To me, it's obvious that he's still pleasing god--if god didn't condone Satan's work surely he would stop him. So what's god up to?

.

I agree, the whole premise of original sin makes god out to be either a sadist or incompetent. Either he's a sadist since he created humans to make mistakes and then eternally punishes humans for making mistakes. Or he's incompetent that one of his creations (people) eating another one of his creations (apple) alters god's entire plan of creation and it takes him several thousand years to figure out how to fix it. And he wasn't omniscient because he didn't know that humans would do this.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Being omniscient, god knew that after having made Adam and Eve Satan would tempt them into eating the apple. So preforming as god had wanted him to, Satan was simply a tool of god. But having played his role in infusing all of humanity with original sin, why does god still allow Satan to harm the world? He's continually being blamed for the ills of humankind throughout the world.
To me, it's obvious that he's still pleasing god--if god didn't condone Satan's work surely he would stop him. So what's god up to?

.

One guess would be that He's raising a crop, and blind belief and adoration is necessary for His crop to...taste good, or make good fabric, or whatever thing it is that an omniscient, omnipotent, etc., deity would need from an intentionally imperfect creation...

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

God gave Adam and Eve a choice. It was their decision to follow Satan instead of God. God might know a lot but He does not always know what decision people will make. It is called free will.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

Yeah, agreed, the original sin concept, the "fallen world" is deeply dumb to me. The idea that a "perfect" deity made us, but made us "sick" and then commanded us to be "well". The idea of punishing thousands of generations of people for something our supposed ancient ancestors did is, forgive me for being frank, just stupid. Not "unfair", or "unjust" just stupid.

It is an idea that engenders the trademark Abrahamic religious guilt, but more than that low self esteem. It discourages the celebration of human development, human invention, human technology and advancement that has pulled us up by the bootstraps to enjoy a more comfortable and enlightened life than the poor ignorant goat herders who wrote the bible endured. "Who are you oh man? It is I the Lord who made all things, I done this, I done that...blah, blah, blah" (I'm paraphrasing, I think that comes from the Good News Bible, er probably Job! ).

To answer the question in the OP, I don't think god is up to anything. I don't think he exists!

 

[Skwim]

God gave Adam and Eve a choice. It was their decision to follow Satan instead of God. God might know a lot but He does not always know what decision people will make. It is called free will.

So you're saying that while god is omniscient he doesn't know everything? Or are you saying he's not omniscient at all?

.

 

[arthra]

why does god still allow Satan to harm the world? He's continually being blamed for the ills of humankind throughout the world.
To me, it's obvious that he's still pleasing god--if god didn't condone Satan's work surely he would stop him. So what's god up to?

"Satan" in my Faith isn't a diabolic character at war with God... Satan or the devil is more a symbol of human lust and lower nature.

In my personal reading of the first few chapters of Genesis there are three questions that are asked that are really the core of a more important issue for humanity and I'll provide them here:

(1) Where are you? found in Genesis 3:9

(2) Where is your brother? found in Genesis 4:9

(3) What is this that you have done? found in Genesis 3:13 and Genesis 4:10

 

[eldios]

Being omniscient, god knew that after having made Adam and Eve Satan would tempt them into eating the apple. So preforming as god had wanted him to, Satan was simply a tool of god. But having played his role in infusing all of humanity with original sin, why does god still allow Satan to harm the world? He's continually being blamed for the ills of humankind throughout the world.
To me, it's obvious that he's still pleasing god--if god didn't condone Satan's work surely he would stop him. So what's god up to?

.

God is to blame for everything that a created man experiences within his mind throughout eternity.

 

[Skwim]

"Satan" in my Faith isn't a diabolic character at war with God... Satan or the devil is more a symbol of human lust and lower nature.

So he never tempted Eve?

.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

God gave Adam and Eve a choice. It was their decision to follow Satan instead of God. God might know a lot but He does not always know what decision people will make. It is called free will.

Then God would not be omniscient and in that case God would have a flaw.

 

[Muslim-UK]

God gave Adam and Eve a choice. It was their decision to follow Satan instead of God. God might know a lot but He does not always know what decision people will make. It is called free will.

Then God would not be omniscient and in that case God would have a flaw.

To add to lostwanderinsoul's post and answer Epic Bear Man:

It was always God's intention to put Adam, Eve and their descendants down on the Earth, He knew full well we would have shortcomings: We know this because the Qur'an says;

It is He who created for you all of that which is on the earth. Then He directed Himself to the heaven, [His being above all creation], and made them seven heavens, and He is Knowing of all things.

And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know." Qur'an 2:29-30

The lesson from the Story of Adam and Eve, may God be pleased with them, is do we repent and turn to God like they did, or do we become arrogant like Satan and blame everyone but Himself for his downfall?

Two paths, the gift of intelligence, reasoning and free will to decide for ourselves. Acknowledge we as humans are weak, we sin, we are far from perfect, but God is always there for us to turn back to.

Whilst we're on the account of Adam and Eve pbut:

God never blamed Adam's wife, Eve pbut for the sin that Adam pbuh committed. God spoke about both Adam pbuh and his wife being duped by Satan, and never singled the wife out. Adam pbuh is held responsible for the sin he committed, he cannot blame it on on his wife, since he is as a responsible human being as she. Both Adam pbuh and his wife were punished for their sin by being ousted from Paradise. The wife did not receive any harsher admonition than Adam pbuh and was not threatened by misery for herself and all her female offspring as depicted elsewhere.

Say, "Is it other than Allah I should desire as a lord while He is the Lord of all things? And every soul earns not [blame] except against itself, and no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return, and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ." Qur'an 6:164

This is also found in the Torah:

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Ezekiel 18:20

 

[arthra]

So he never tempted Eve?

.

Right .. We don't take the texts literally.

We must reflect a little: if the literal meaning of this story were attributed to a wise man, certainly all would logically deny that this arrangement, this invention, could have emanated from an intelligent being. Therefore, this story of Adam and Eve who ate from the tree, and their expulsion from Paradise, must be thought of simply as a symbol.

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 122

 

[Epic Beard Man]

To add to lostwanderinsoul's post and answer Epic Bear Man:

It was always God's intention to put Adam, Eve and their descendants down on the Earth, He knew full well we would have shortcomings: We know this because the Qur'an says;

It is He who created for you all of that which is on the earth. Then He directed Himself to the heaven, [His being above all creation], and made them seven heavens, and He is Knowing of all things.

And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know." Qur'an 2:29-30

The lesson from the Story of Adam and Eve, may God be pleased with them, is do we repent and turn to God like they did, or do we become arrogant like Satan and blame everyone but Himself for his downfall?

Two paths, the gift of intelligence, reasoning and free will to decide for ourselves. Acknowledge we as humans are weak, we sin, we are far from perfect, but God is always there for us to turn back to.

Whilst we're on the account of Adam and Eve pbut:

God never blamed Adam's wife, Eve pbut for the sin that Adam pbuh committed. God spoke about both Adam pbuh and his wife being duped by Satan, and never singled the wife out. Adam pbuh is held responsible for the sin he committed, he cannot blame it on on his wife, since he is as a responsible human being as she. Both Adam pbuh and his wife were punished for their sin by being ousted from Paradise. The wife did not receive any harsher admonition than Adam pbuh and was not threatened by misery for herself and all her female offspring as depicted elsewhere.

Say, "Is it other than Allah I should desire as a lord while He is the Lord of all things? And every soul earns not [blame] except against itself, and no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return, and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ." Qur'an 6:164

This is also found in the Torah:

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Ezekiel 18:20

God knew all of this (beforehand) and allowed them to use their freedom to disobey.....He then still decided to punish them even though he knew they would do the exact same thing he disliked......

 

[Kilgore Trout]

God gave Adam and Eve a choice. It was their decision to follow Satan instead of God. God might know a lot but He does not always know what decision people will make. It is called free will.

But, they didn't know it was wrong to disobey god until after they ate from the tree of knowledge. God's sounding more and more shifty all the time.

 

[Muslim-UK]

God knew all of this (beforehand) and allowed them to use their freedom to disobey.....He then still decided to punish them even though he knew they would do the exact same thing he disliked......

You missed the part where they had free will. Where God intended for them to inhabit the Earth. Where the lesson from the story is, which path will you take. Turn to God and repent for mistakes, or be like some philosophers and blame God for not wishing to submit to His will?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

You missed the part where they had free will. Where God intended for them to inhabit the Earth. Where the lesson from the story is, which path will you take. Turn to God and repent for mistakes, or be like some philosophers and blame God for not wishing to submit to His will?

As a proponent of freewill, I have completely and fully submitted to Allah (God)'s will. Although I disagree with Allah on a great many things I don't think HE is against me. I think HE understands that human beings cannot understand human actions and human dictations on things.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

You missed the part where they had free will. Where God intended for them to inhabit the Earth. Where the lesson from the story is, which path will you take. Turn to God and repent for mistakes, or be like some philosophers and blame God for not wishing to submit to His will?

If you saw gods and kings the Exodus movie my idea of submission and lack of freewill is presented as it was in this movie to give you an idea.

 

[Muslim-UK]

As a proponent of freewill, I have completely and fully submitted to Allah (God)'s will. Although I disagree with Allah on a great many things I don't think HE is against me. I think HE understands that human beings cannot understand human actions and human dictations on things.

The one who submits to God has nothing to fear. Can I ask here or in pm, what a couple of the many things you disagree with God are?

 

[Muslim-UK]

If you saw gods and kings the Exodus movie my idea of submission and lack of freewill is presented as it was in this movie to give you an idea.

I've never seen the movie. Does it depict any of the Prophets of God?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

The one who submits to God has nothing to fear. Can I ask here or in pm, what a couple of the many things you disagree with God are?

sure