So what's wrong with UKIP?

[Ultimatum]

General elections are not kind (deliberately) to smaller parties. UKIP may win a few seats but I suspect it will already be heading to irrelevance by May 2015.



Where did you learn this?



History is politics.



What will?



I agree with its original intent: the prevention of a fourth Franco-German war. Europe cannot afford it and Western civilisation is probably mortally wounded because of it. With Russia awakening again, the US going into retreat and militant Islam plaguing our southern borders the last thing we need is France and Germany at logger heads. As it is I don't fear this: France has accepted the inevitable dominance of the continent by Germany. But no, I'm no fan of the EU: I believe in Western civilisation, the EU does not.

Well what UKIP is all about is getting this country back to the way it should be and, indeed, what many people gave their lives to making it, namely, and independent, self-governing, and democratic country. But that is what the other parties have thrown out of the window by signing up to something that was called a 'common market' that has now morphed into a power-hungry politcal union which makes 75% of our laws And the British government is utterly impotent. We can't deport terrorists, we have to give prisoners the vote, all sorts of things that we have to do, in which our own Parliament no longer has the power to do. SO the primary purpose of UKIP is to re-establish the independence and democracy of this country. Thereafter, UKIP has a plan for how that independent Britain could and should be run and it starts with simplifying the tax system, extending social mobility, and an immigration policy that is modelled on the Australians and
Canadians and NOT the open-door policy we have at the moment.
UKIP won't become irrelevant because people are finally seeing the issues with the European Institutions.

 

[Ultimatum]

General elections are not kind (deliberately) to smaller parties. UKIP may win a few seats but I suspect it will already be heading to irrelevance by May 2015.

UKIP is not a small party anymore. They are ahead of the LibDems overall in the opinion polls. They are even eating into Conservative votes more than Labour which means the conservatives will become more like UKIP.
I don't think you understand the gravity of the situation!

 

[DayRaven]

UKIP won't become irrelevant because people are finally seeing the issues with the European Institutions.

Which people?

Opinion polls are next too useless as any real guide (too many mitigating factors) but if we go by the Daily Express' petition that it delivered last year to No.10 demanding a referendum only 150,000 had signed it. It's hardly a ringing endorsement is it?

which means the conservatives will become more like UKIP.

More the other way around: UKIP will become more like the Conservatives (they're already sounding like them). Personally I want to see the Conservative Party crushed; they have betrayed conservatism as a political force in British politics.

 

[oldbadger]

Listen, it doesn't matter where you live in London, there will always be cultural enrichment everywhere..

Yeah...... but...... Chelsea! That ain't Forest Gate, or Wandsworth flats!

And yes, they are reliable and consistent, and I am sure that most of them pay their taxes! UKIP doesn't mind that at all.

Agreed.

What they have a problem with is the fact that there are a large group of people who get under the radar and nothing can be done about it. We can't send them back because that's against the 'Free Movement of Peoples' clause of EU rules.

Agreed. Just wait until after the General Election, and see what other parties are forced to include into their policies as a result of UKIP gains. But what will happen to English born locals who have scrounged off the system for donkeys' years? We can't send them far, and most of em are white Brits. I do hope Farage includes them in his 'to do' list.

For example, the European Court of Human Rights made a mockery of UK Acts of Parliament with the whole Abu Hamza fiasco. And let's not forget about Abu Qatada.

Agreed. I have been trying to explain to members on another thread (about HR comparisons) about how p-ssed off a lot of Brits are with our HR laws.

You'll note that most of my replies start with 'agreed'. There's little point in being in heated agreement with a UKIP voter..... you need to preach to the non-voters, tories, liberals, labours, sleepers, couldn't-care'lesses etc. I really do look forward to the GE, and believe that it will be the most interesting one in my lifetime.

 

[Ultimatum]

Which people?

Opinion polls are next too useless as any real guide (too many mitigating factors) but if we go by the Daily Express' petition that it delivered last year to No.10 demanding a referendum only 150,000 had signed it. It's hardly a ringing endorsement is it?

Which people? Have you not been keeping up?
At Heywood and Middleton, and actually the 6 by-elections before that, UKIP tore huge chunks out of the old Labour vote, UKIP vote, Lib Dem vote, and even people who had never voted before (10% make-up) voted for UKIP.
Also, in the Midlands and the North (in the big cities), the only party that can challenge the sitting Labour MPs is UKIP, the Conservatives are now practically irrelevant up there because in all of those parts of this country if you vote Conservative you get Labour. UKIP are gaining momentum.

They may also win the Rochester and Strood by-election tonight.

We don't need to look at opinion polls, but simply look at the evidence and what is going on around the country.

More the other way around: UKIP will become more like the Conservatives (they're already sounding like them). Personally I want to see the Conservative Party crushed; they have betrayed conservatism as a political force in British politics.

No. UKIP don't need to become more like the Conservatives.. they just don't need it. I'm sure that UKIP is very happy with the position they is currently in. Cameron needs to be worried about UKIP; not the other way round.

 

[Ultimatum]

Yeah...... but...... Chelsea! That ain't Forest Gate, or Wandsworth flats!

Well it certainly isn't as nice as you think..

 

[DayRaven]

Which people? Have you not been keeping up?

Yes. I see disaffection, but I've seen that before.

the Conservatives are now practically irrelevant up there

The Conservatives have been largely non-existent in large parts of the Midlands and the North for nigh on forty years or more.

No. UKIP don't need to become more like the Conservatives..

I never mentioned "need" I wrote they will (and are).

 

[Rick O'Shez]

If Nigel promised free beer they would get even more votes,

 

[Ultimatum]

Yes. I see disaffection, but I've seen that before.

And how does that make the fact that many people more are now voting UKIP not true? Not of any concern just because "I've seen it before".

The Conservatives have been largely non-existent in large parts of the Midlands and the North for nigh on forty years or more.

And now even more so!

I never mentioned "need" I wrote they will (and are).

And how are they becoming more like the Conservatives?[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[Rick O'Shez]

UKIP have now got two MPs. That's one more than the Green Party.

 

[Secret Chief]

Yeah these tories will do anything to keep their seat.

 

[Altfish]

This was a poor performance by UKIP; a 4% swing at next May's General Election will see the seat revert to the Tories.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The election next May should be interesting. I can't see that there will be an outright winner.

 

[Yerda]

Ultimatum, some questions, if you don't mind.

Do you trust Farage?

What do you make of the alliance with the holocaust deniers in Poland's Congress of the New Right?

Are you concerned that you're attracting people like Mark Reckless?

I take it that you think the biggest political challenge facing the UK is the EU. Why do you think so?

 

[Ultimatum]

Ultimatum, some questions, if you don't mind.

Do you trust Farage?

I see no reason not to. He speaks absolute sense but, unfortunately, people don't look at the problem at hand in depth. And this is happening because the United Kingdom's parties are no longer diverse; they all share the same opinion. You see, the Conservatives back in the day would talk about free markets, enterprise, aspiration, and social mobility. Today's Conservatives talk about gay marriage and the need for wind turbines! And this is completely alienating the old Conservative vote. So into that gap falls UKIP. And UKIP is absolutely clear in what they believe in. Everyone in Britain is absolutely clear what they believe in. UKIP believes the best people to govern Britain are the British, and that we should do this through the ballot box proudly through Westminster. It's clear.
And is not astonishing that we have a LIBERAL Democract Party, a LABOUR Party, and a CONSERVATIVE party that are all completely united behind the view that not only should the UK remain a member, but also that the Eurozone should take yet more power to run the affairs of those 17 Eurozone countries from the center? They all support it. And indeed, on every major issue we talk about in the country, we see 3 parties in Britain that frankly take a social democratic view on everything. There is no diverse choice, there is not much democracy. UKIP fills that gap.

What do you make of the alliance with the holocaust deniers in Poland's Congress of the New Right?

Ah, but this is not the case. It has been twisted by the media. Yes, the leader of the KNP is on record for having denied the holocaust, but he is not part of the alliance. UKIP want nothing to do with the man. The media have grossly oversimplified this.

Are you concerned that you're attracting people like Mark Reckless?

As a matter of honour and principle, Mark Reckless has put his neck on the line. He didn't only join UKIP, but he gave his voters the chance to vote on whether or not they agreed with him (which is what the vote was about). And I admire that bravery. The same goes for Mr. Carswell.
The reason he defected is because he didn't believe that the Conservatives were being sincere, and I agree with him.

I take it that you think the biggest political challenge facing the UK is the EU. Why do you think so?

I would say that it's a very big issue (although not the only one), and we need to do something about it. Why do we need to do something about it? My previous posts will provide a clue into that [/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[Ultimatum]

This was a poor performance by UKIP; a 4% swing at next May's General Election will see the seat revert to the Tories.

What happened at the by-election and what will happen at the General Elections are two different stories. You must keep in mind the Mark Reckless didn't receive AS MUCH support from his voters as Douglas Carswell because Mr. Carswell has been an MP for longer and thus, has been able to gather a larger following.

 

[Ultimatum]

What do you make of the alliance with the holocaust deniers in Poland's Congress of the New Right?

Oh and whilst we're on the subject of so-called dodgy alliances (which it is not in this case): What do you think of all the BNP Defectors that are a part of Labour and the Conservatives?
Also, what do you think about Milliband's former Shadow Cabinet ally who was accused of acting like a 'snob'?

It's funny how the media asks these question about UKIP, but won't when LibLabCon come on. This is then planted into the minds of the electorate (in this case you), who think asking these questions without reading into them is a smart thing to do.

 

[DayRaven]

Not of any concern just because "I've seen it before".

Do you remember Nick Clegg? He was a popular man.....once, who brought into public disquiet at the "established" parties. An hour is a long time in politics (ask Emily Thornberry) a year.......

As it is I think UKIP are at the high tide mark.

 

[Secret Chief]

@Ultimatum

What do YOU think is wrong with Ukip?

 

[Ultimatum]

Do you remember Nick Clegg? He was a popular man.....once, who brought into public disquiet at the "established" parties. An hour is a long time in politics (ask Emily Thornberry) a year.......

As it is I think UKIP are at the high tide mark.

Nope. David and Ed are under big pressure now to change their strategy to combat Ukip.
Ukip has now set up a target seat committe which is looking at dozens of possible vulnerable seats. I expect more defections after Christmas, especially Tory MPs from the urban north.
My defection predictions:
Nigel Mills - Amber Valley
Martin Vickers - Cleethorpes
David Nuttall - Bury

Watch this space. The Ukip bubble is as big as ever.
And it's quite funny isn't it? When Ukip topped the polls in the European elections, both the Conservatives and Labour politicians promised us that the Ukip bubble would burst. 6 months on and Ukip are stronger than ever.
Enjoy that leftisf propaganda.