Socialism vs Capitalism

[Twilight Hue]

Capitalism all the way. My father and my aunts spent months planning and fleeing to the west. I grew up hearing horror stories about their time in Soviet controlled Georgia and would never wish anyone to live under those conditions.

I was roommates once with a Russian from the Communist era . He could tell people a few horror stories or two what it was like to live in the USSR. Needless to say he's very capitalist and loves this free country.

 

[Revoltingest]

If Xi gets his way it will go heavy handed quick, like I said, he is much closer to the way of Mao than his most recent predecessors. But he appears to be into something no other Chinese ruler has ever been interested in...global expansion and influence. Prior to him they only cared about those things that were traditionally looked at as China. But here is another thing about China. They control the media and they only let out what they want.... and sometimes they let out something to get your attention so you don't see what they are really doing. Basically they figured out awhile ago that most of the world is distracted by shinny objects

I don't think Xi will kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.
So I expect his authoritarianism to be directed socially &
politically.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Living all my life in a capitalist society and understanding its history I find it more creates more hardships and unhappiness.

Dealing and knowing people in socialist societies, I find them happier and less worried about hardships.

Socialism is not your friend.

 

[Wu Wei]

I don't think Xi will kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.
So I expect his authoritarianism to be directed socially &
politically.

Oh I don't think he will close China down like Mao, but he is starting to increase censorship and watching more people via the internet and restricting more internet access. He is very aware of the Arab spring and he does not want that in China so he limits stuff. Not sure how true it is since I only got this from one source, but the Chinese censors may have mistakenly and temporarily, censored the letter 'N' this past week thanks to Chi*ese Preside*t Xi Ji*pi*g

 

[icehorse]

(1)I think socialism assumes people need each other and that a system that allows a person to exploit at the expense of others will ultimately fail. (2)Socialism doesn’t need group think that’s not what it is about. (3)Ideally people can all have their businesses just nobody can become king of the hill cause people would share the success. (4)Capitalism leads to an elite few with most of the wealth while the majority live poor.

To varying degrees I disagree with all four of your claims:

1 - People DO need each other - at least to prosper they do. Infrastructure is just one example of such needs.

2 - Define "group think"? Unless you have an unusual definition, I think this claim is a red herring.

3 - This hypothesis is strongly at odds with recent findings in human motivations research.

4 - Every plausible economic system is a complex, man-made machine, and like all such machines, it's not reasonable or necessary for complex machines to run perfectly without needs tweaks and monitoring and fine tuning. If your claim is that a hypothetically pure, un-tuned, capitalist society will statistically always lead to the extreme inequality you mention, well that might be, in theory.

But in practice, any and all of these systems can be kept in a healthy balance.

 

[icehorse]

Norway isn't socialist.

Have we arrived at a definition of "socialism" for this thread?

 

[Revoltingest]

Have we arrived at a definition of "socialism" for this thread?

It was defined before this thread even existed.
But to your question, I don't know how many are included in "we".

 

[bobhikes]

Socialism is not your friend.

Neither is capitalism.

 

[icehorse]

That said, holy crap does the US need more social programs and less tolerance for corporate oligarchy. Crony capitalism is destroying this country, making Americans unhealthy, uneducated and poor, with a wealth distribution which keeps most people locked in poverty with little and less chance at upward mobility no matter how ambitious or hard they work.
And the rich villify the poor, call them lazy and unmotivated to keep the dwindling middle class from challenging the status quo.

Hey!!! We agree!! awesome

 

[Twilight Hue]

Neither is capitalism.

True.

 

[icehorse]

It was defined before this thread even existed.
But to your question, I don't know how many are included in "we".

I'm curious to know if "we" in this thread are using the same definition of "socialism"?

 

[M83]

I was roommates once with a Russian from the Communist era . He could tell people a few horror stories or two what it was like to live in the USSR. Needless to say he's very capitalist and loves this free country.

So does my dad and my aunts. He's been doing real estate in Arizona since the mid 90s and has loved every second of it.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm curious to know if "we" in this thread are using the same definition of "socialism"?

The common definition defines the group of "we".
Who's in it? I don't know.

 

[icehorse]

The common definition defines the group of "we".
Who's in it? I don't know.

In this case, I was referring to those who have responded in this thread. It seems that everyone in this group has decided to volunteer to discuss "socialism", and I suspect that not all of us have the same definition for the word.

 

[sun rise]

Do you think people act in the interest of their families? Their neighborhoods?

Some do. Many don't act rationally no matter whether it be self, family, neighborhood or nation.

 

[sun rise]

In this case, I was referring to those who have responded in this thread. It seems that everyone in this group has decided to volunteer to discuss "socialism", and I suspect that not all of us have the same definition for the word.

True. "State capitalism" is called "socialism" in some quarters, for example.

 

[sun rise]

It was defined before this thread even existed.
But to your question, I don't know how many are included in "we".

Which form are you considering "THE" definition? Types of socialism - Wikipedia

 

[Revoltingest]

In this case, I was referring to those who have responded in this thread. It seems that everyone in this group has decided to volunteer to discuss "socialism", and I suspect that not all of us have the same definition for the word.

This is where dictionaries are handy.
But I run into a lot of rejection of those.
Some socialists have told me that it can only be
defined by reading dense tomes on the subject.
If something cannot be explained simply, then
the explainer just doesn't understand it.....IMO.

 

[Revoltingest]

Which form are you considering "THE" definition? Types of socialism - Wikipedia

I gave it.

 

[sun rise]

It was defined before this thread even existed.

I gave it.

In the universe of time and space, I could easily have missed the one true definition you gave.

This is where dictionaries are handy.
But I run into a lot of rejection of those.
Some socialists have told me that it can only be
defined by reading dense tomes on the subject.
If something cannot be explained simply, then
the explainer just doesn't understand it.....IMO.

General relativity fails your over broad brush test. Some things are complex and need complex explanations.

 

[Revoltingest]

In the universe of time and space, I could easily have missed the one true definition you gave.



General relativity fails your over broad brush test. Some things are complex and need complex explanations.

GR is simple to explain.
This does not mean that it's easily accessible to those
who don't know that mathematical language of it.
As for socialism, its definition would be in plain English.
But simpler aspects can be explained without math.
So if an English speaker cannot describe the definition,
then this speaker doesn't understand it.

You can't sell me that bill of goods which says only socialists
can define it, & that the dictionaries are all wrong.