solution to the U.S. health care crisis.

[Nakosis]

How about if your health care goes to the lowest bidder? That would be exciting.

Sure if you had some control over it. Unfortunately the only way to do that is by being part of a large group. That's the way companies use to keep insurance costs down by negotiating with the medical insurance companies. Individuals don't have that kind of negotiating power.

However as a state, we send our representatives though our local election process. We have the power of a state behind us when dealing with the government.

 

[Magus]

 

[Nakosis]

Why not follow the implementation models used elsewhere in the world? We don't have to re-invent the wheel.

Sure, get the government to do that.

Sounds reasonable, but why stop at medical education? We tried free, publicly funded college education once, and it returned a 7:1 profit in taxes alone, to say nothing of the social and economic benefits of a middle class and educated populace.

Sure, I think education is important enough to society to have it funded by tax payers. Not really what the thread was about though.

hard for a cost+profit system to compete with a cost only system, though.

Just providing a choice. I imagine there's folks smart enough to figure out how to incentivize people for premium healthcare.

That would be a socialized system. Works in Britain, or did till the neo-liberal Thatcherites began chipping away at it.

Any single payer system would fit the definition of being socialized wouldn't it?

A shame, though, when people have to join an organization dedicated to killing people, to gain the skills needed to heal people.

That's just one option. The government could also provide low cost loans or grants.

I think you've been duped by propaganda from the massive, for-profit healthcare industry. Quality of Care in VA Health System Compares Well to Other Health Settings | RAND
The VA is currently overwhelmed by a huge influx of patients from our foreign adventurism, and has staffing and funding problems. Congress is dragging its feet, as it's largely funded by the system's competition, but the socialized system still gets fairly high ratings.

I'm just responding to objections by other posters. If the VA system is working, then so much the better.

 

[Eliab ben Benjamin]

Who wants to go to the hospital, any hospital?

I did, was proud to work in my local Hospital for 20 years.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I would like to go past the blame game between the two failed political parties of Democrat and Republicans and get your opinion on a viable solution to this mess. The ACA has helped some, but been very harmful to others (like myself). The plan (so far) that the GOP is pushing looks like it will be just as harmful by ,for one, cutting back Medicaid for folks that really need it. The only good thing I see with the GOP plan so far is that you don't have to buy it. So anyway, what I would like is for you to share your opinion as to what we need here in the USA.
Personally, I would like to see something along the lines of a Canadian style single payer system.

I have to agree. However Canada isn't without its flaws. Dental care isn't included and not covered. Still, givin the destructive mess political meddling now has caused, a similar system would provide a better alternative than what we have now.

 

[tytlyf]

There's only 1 solution. Hold the GOP accountable for their lobbying and putting corporations ahead of their voters. The crooked American healthcare system has been inflated beyond anything else comparable. It's all profit-minded.

The reason the republicans can't pass healthcare is because their tea party elements are obstructing. And the fact they had 6 years to come up with a replacement. They lied to their voters about "repeal and replace." Telling the vulnerable that Obamacare will "self-implode, a trainwreck, failing system, etc."

It's not my problem that the people who believed the swamp media didn't realize they were being conned. Russia and the GOP media essentially worked together to push out maximum propaganda.
It would make Goebbels jealous.

 

[Politesse]

The ACA limits the profit margin of insurance companies. But one problem of just eliminating that whole "industry" is that those companies provide some number of people with employment and pays taxes.

As would their replacements. Allowing them absurd profits doesn't make any more jobs. The corporate tax revenue from the companies would be more of a hit, but one that would be compensated for since a more efficient medical system would eliminate all manner of waste spending.

 

[Politesse]

Ask the parents of 11-month-old Charlie Gard how they like single payer system

As though our system doesn't deny treatments to dying kids constantly. Is this meant to be a joke? If so, it isn't very funny. These are real people and real lives we throw under the bus. By the thousands. Because it isn't "cost-effective" to help them from a profit perspective. Disgusting in my opinion.

 

[leibowde84]

I would like to go past the blame game between the two failed political parties of Democrat and Republicans and get your opinion on a viable solution to this mess. The ACA has helped some, but been very harmful to others (like myself). The plan (so far) that the GOP is pushing looks like it will be just as harmful by ,for one, cutting back Medicaid for folks that really need it. The only good thing I see with the GOP plan so far is that you don't have to buy it. So anyway, what I would like is for you to share your opinion as to what we need here in the USA.
Personally, I would like to see something along the lines of a Canadian style single payer system.

I agree. Single payer seems like the most logical way to go. It works great in Canada, but our government doesn't work nearly as well as theirs. But, endless regulations, bickering and broken promises aren't doing the trick. Single payer would be the simplest way to go. I feel like everyone would be happy if the government could do it well.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

How about if your health care goes to the lowest bidder? That would be exciting.

It really sucks, especially when you need necessary treatment to keep you off disabilities. Last time they left me with huge weekly payments and a good hefty bill for those necessary treatments, and the time before that it just waited a couple months, let time expire, and I turned 26.
And then there are the low income/sliding scale clinics. With everything except the common cold, naturalist curing alternative new agers are about just as good as these clinics.
Literally, what I have now is the best insurance I've ever had. It's covered everything, with no out of pocket expenses, except for treatments of gender dysphoria, but even then it covers therapy and hormones which many insurance companies will not cover.

We don't have to re-invent the wheel.

That should be someone's campaign slogan, lol.
.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I feel like everyone would be happy if the government could do it well.

And all they have to do is collect taxes (something they are exceedingly good at) and paying the bill from that. Sure some would be taking more than they give, but if we could get our priorities straight and end our drug binge of Capitalism we could have all our needs met and even have better and more opportunities for would be entrepreneurs who aren't already loaded with tons of cash.

 

[Valjean]

Sure, get the government to do that.

What does that mean?
There are some things that can be handled much better collectively.

Just providing a choice. I imagine there's folks smart enough to figure out how to incentivize people for premium healthcare.

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at here. "Incentivize people for premium healthcare?" Are you talking about incentivizing the lawmakers to enact better healthcare legislation; incentivizing the healthcare workers? the industry? the insurance providers?

Any single payer system would fit the definition of being socialized wouldn't it?

Broadly defined, yes, but I assumed this was a serious discussion, so i was speaking technically.
When I used socialized I was referring to the Beveridge model, where the hospitals are owned and administered by the government, and the medical personnel are civil servants, on government salary, like the police or fire departments.
Single payer (NHI) model: Private hospitals privately administered, Private employees, bills payed by the government. Government 'runs' nothing.
Five Countries - Health Care Systems -- The Four Basic Models | Sick Around The World | FRONTLINE | PBS

That's just one option. The government could also provide low cost loans or grants.

Wouldn't loans be just one more unnecessary expense, owed to a third party not involved in providing any care? You can get a loan from your bank or credit union.
Grants just incentivize providers to charge more and provide unnecessary services, so as to get the whole pie. They're also limited, so are unlikely to meet the needs of chronic or seriously ill patients.

The cheapest alternatives are single payer or socialized. In other countries these systems are a third to a half what we pay in the US, and provide superior care, with better outcomes.
Nowhere else can a family be bankrupted by medical expenses.

 

[Sapiens]

So do I but how to implement it in a capitalist system?

I think the government needs to get into the healthcare business. Provide doctors and clinics that are free. Maybe pay for part of the cost of medical school in exchange for say 10 years of service at a government operated medical clinic. We could do the same for nurses.

Folks who want to pay for private health care can still do so, but they are going to have to be some what competitive with government run facilities.

Everyone gets a basic level of healthcare that is at a lower cost to tax payers.

We have military hospitals so the government already does this. Just expand this to cover public health care as well.

People could enlist, get medical training, get experience working at these health clinics.

It's real easy ... it's known as Medicare for all. All that need be done is change the enabling legislation from "at age 65" to "at birth."

Medicare for All: Leaving No One Behind - Bernie Sanders

 

[Valjean]

It's real easy ... it's known as Medicare for all. All that need be done is change the enabling legislation from "at age 65" to "at birth."

Medicare for All: Leaving No One Behind - Bernie Sanders

Yes, one of the US' great advantages is that we already have a working, single payer system in place. Everyone's familiar with it, knows the paperwork and particulars; it could be a smooth transition... but:
There's a massive insurance, pharmaceutical and ancillary service industry that would loose billions, and congress is in their pockets.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Healthcare Crisis? Since when!?

 

[Valjean]

Healthcare Crisis? Since when!?

1981

 

[Underhill]

So do I but how to implement it in a capitalist system?

I think the government needs to get into the healthcare business. Provide doctors and clinics that are free. Maybe pay for part of the cost of medical school in exchange for say 10 years of service at a government operated medical clinic. We could do the same for nurses.

Folks who want to pay for private health care can still do so, but they are going to have to be some what competitive with government run facilities.

Everyone gets a basic level of healthcare that is at a lower cost to tax payers.

We have military hospitals so the government already does this. Just expand this to cover public health care as well.

People could enlist, get medical training, get experience working at these health clinics.

The best way is to do what the UK did (among many others). Take control of the whole system top to bottom. Then you can control the cost and take the profit out of the entire equation.

But that won't happen. So go to a single payer model. The services are private, but since everything goes through the government system, the cost can at least be regulated.

There are myriad hybrid systems, but so long as insurers are part of the equation I can't see them being an improvement.

 

[esmith]

It's real easy ... it's known as Medicare for all. All that need be done is change the enabling legislation from "at age 65" to "at birth."

Medicare for All: Leaving No One Behind - Bernie Sanders

So, do you want everyone to pay the monthly premiums for Medicare Part B or just give them Medicare Part A. What are you going to do about those that have been and are paying "Medicare" taxes. You going to refund all of their payments or just say tough titty. Medicare is not free.

 

[Falvlun]

We need price controls. And that has to come from the government.

The cost of healthcare varies widely in the US, does not reflect actual costs, is very opaque, and is much higher than it ought to be. There are many reasons for this-- people unable to pay and passing their costs to those who can, insurance blinding people to costs and creating an extra layer of buerocracy and profit, free market going haywire when people don't have a choice but to pay up, the high cost of medical education, the cost of R&D, malpractice insurance, and probably more that I have no clue about.

So how best to implement price control? I think that's the main question.

 

[Valjean]

But that won't happen. So go to a single payer model. The services are private, but since everything goes through the government system, the cost can at least be regulated.

There are myriad hybrid systems, but so long as insurers are part of the equation I can't see them being an improvement.

We need price controls. And that has to come from the government.

The cost of healthcare varies widely in the US, does not reflect actual costs, is very opaque, and is much higher than it ought to be. There are many reasons for this-- people unable to pay and passing their costs to those who can, insurance blinding people to costs and creating an extra layer of buerocracy and profit, free market going haywire when people don't have a choice but to pay up, the high cost of medical education, the cost of R&D, malpractice insurance, and probably more that I have no clue about.

So how best to implement price control? I think that's the main question.

Good points.
Trying to implement either a socialized or single payer system against the political influence and economic clout wielded by the industry will be problematic.

Something we could look into is the hybrid Bismarck system used in Japan and much of Western Europe. This retains the insurance companies, but under heavy regulation and control, making them, essentially, non-profit companies.

This might partially placate the insurance industry -- at least it wouldn't be entirely eliminated.
On the other hand, the system would retain this unnecessary third party, increasing both direct payments to the insurers plus the costs and bureaucracy needed to regulate them.