Some California Fast Food Businesses Raising Prices

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It didn't take me long to do your homework.

Automation is Everywhere for Small Businesses

Automation is present in the modern workplace in more ways than you might expect.

www.businessnewsdaily.com

And you think that $16/h minimum wage jobs in California would be safe from automation? Why?

 

[Kfox]

No. Not entirely.

It might be for some small mom and pop operators who need to adapt, but certainly not for major corporations.

Why would things be different for the Mom & Pop type McDonalds vs the type of McDonalds that are a part of the major corporation?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Why would things be different for the Mom & Pop type McDonalds vs the type of McDonalds that are a part of the major corporation?

It isn't. I specifically mentioned they would need to adapt.

Large conglomerates are unquestionably able to afford to pay their workers a proper living wage.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

For many people (liberals) they focus on punishing business, thinking that this will benefit society. So filled with hate. But love for regulatoins.

You frame that as punishing businesses and liberal hatred? I see it as rewarding fast-food workers in the face of conservative indifference to them.

Where's the hatred again? These conservatives have as little interest in minimum wage workers as they do the children they want to force unwilling mothers to carry birth and mothers themselves but cynically feign interest in the welfare of both.

But no concern for their losing what you call a "half a job"?

Unsurprisingly, this is also framed as concern for the workers' jobs.

*******

Digression:

Consider the spectrum of people from community-oriented and people-enabling to being exclusively self-oriented (or being only being concerned about the well-being of a handful of people). It's the liberals and humanists that cluster in the community-oriented end of the spectrum. They are not selfless, but compromise between selfish needs and community needs, devoting resources to each. In this case, are we willing to pay a little more for fast food if our neighbors cooking and serving that food who live near poverty levels live a little better because of it, or does that not factor into one's position at all?

That selfish end of the spectrum seems to be growing in America. Perhaps it started with "Greed is good," but it got a huge boost with Trump, who couldn't be more selfish. We saw it play out in the vaccine and mask wars:

Community-minded person: "Won't you wear a mask to protect your neighbors and take a vaccine to do your part in attaining herd immunity?"
Selfish person: "No. And I demand to go and work where I want, too. I don't care how nervous that makes others."​

There will always be a contingent of the latter, but has it always been this large? Did the pandemic just show us who we have been living among all along, or have Americans in general become more selfish? I'm happy for these fast-food workers.

Whatever the answer, the phrase "fabric of society" comes to mind. Fabric, as in many threads woven together versus tattered and unraveling. My adopted culture (Mexican) is far more family and community oriented, and as a result, spiritually happy. Extended families living together or close together that do things as families are the rule. When there is a death, they turn out on the streets in large numbers with a funeral tent. They love seeing money spent on public art (murals, sculptures), for example, and every medium-sized or larger village or town has a public plaza where locals congregate especially on Sunday nights. On the Day of the Dead, families from the elderly to children set up shrines to the departed in front of their homes and gather in cemeteries to celebrate the memories of the deceased. This is my village: Day of the Dead Altars Ajijic & Chapala 2020 and Palm Sunday and Verbena Celebrations in Ajijic

And we had no mask or vaccine wars here. The one exception I was aware of was an American who tantrummed outside a store when not allowed in for lack of a mask. She got physical and had police problems.

 

[Revoltingest]

You frame that as punishing businesses and liberal hatred?

Only when the motive appears to be punishment & hatred.
Of course, not all regulation is so inspired, eg, OSHA.

I see it as rewarding fast-food workers in the face of conservative indifference to them.

See how you worded that?
You don't even know that all who pay low
wages are conservative. Many aren't.

Where's the hatred again?

"Hatred" would be a strong word to describe
your language above. It could be called
"disdain".

These conservatives have as little interest in minimum wage workers as they do the children they want to force unwilling mothers to carry birth and mothers themselves but cynically feign interest in the welfare of both.

There you go again.

 

[crossfire]

Why some, but not others? Why not just raise the minimum wage for all businesses regardless of fast food or not? This doesn't sound fair

I'm thinking that the corporations approached the State and proposed this creation of the Fast Food Committee in order to avoid having to shoulder the burden of their franchisees who violate labor laws, as well as a means by which to bypass mass unionization in the industry.

 

[Laniakea]

And you think that $16/h minimum wage jobs in California would be safe from automation? Why?

Exactly the opposite. I'm saying they are exactly the ones that aren't safe. Those jobs used to be the $7.50/hr. jobs, and now are going to be $20. That's what makes them threatened by automation since they are low skilled jobs that automation can easily replace.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Exactly the opposite. I'm saying they are exactly the ones that aren't safe. Those jobs used to be the $7.50/hr. jobs, and now are going to be $20. That's what makes them threatened by automation since they are low skilled jobs that automation can easily replace.

So you think they would have been safe at $7.50/h? Why?

Edit: what job do you think can be replaced by a machine cost-effectively at $16 or $20 an hour, but not at $7.50 or even $1 an hour?

 

[Laniakea]

So you think they would have been safe at $7.50/h? Why?

Because that rate is more cost effective.

Edit: what job do you think can be replaced by a machine cost-effectively at $16 or $20 an hour, but not at $7.50 or even $1 an hour?

For one, cashiers. Have you been to a Walmart, Target or Aldi store lately?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Well most of us knew that these businesses would have to raise their prices due to the increase in wages they are being forced to pay, now it looks like it is or will happen. Are you suprised that they did? So what now Califormian?

Burger King, In-N-Out and other chain locations in California raise prices after minimum wage increase: report

Prices for burgers, fries and other fast food items have increased at various chains across California after the state minimum wage increased, per reports.

www.foxbusiness.com

Starbucks, Chipotle, McDonald's: Who's raising prices as California fast-food law starts today

Fast-food chains are looking to hike the cost of menu items because they're required to pay their employees $20 an hour starting Monday.

www.latimes.com

Oh yeah, these gigantic multi-billion dollar corporations must be hurting so much from having to pay their lowly employees a living wage.

 

[Laniakea]

Oh yeah, these gigantic multi-billion dollar corporations must be hurting so much from having to pay their lowly employees a living wage.

If the workers weren't given a living wage, they wouldn't be living.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Because that rate is more cost effective.



For one, cashiers. Have you been to a Walmart, Target or Aldi store lately?

So you think a cashier's job is safe from self checkout if they make $7.50/h?

Let's do some back-of-the-envelope math for a grocery store:

- assume the store is open 105 hours per week (based on my local store - 7:00-10:00), so 5,460 h/y.
- assume $125,000 per 4 units for a self checkout system (typical $ I found from googling), and assume the system lasts 10 years (pulled out of my butt, but seems reasonable).
- assume that a grocery store has 8 self checkouts and 1 staff to monitor (let's pay them $7.50/h, to reflect the wage you mentioned).
- assume $100/month per unit for subscription fees, maintenance, etc. (seems in line with what I could google, though those fees were mostly for restaurants).

This puts the annualized cost at $34,600/y for the system and $40,950/y for the one staff, or $75,500/y total.

This works out to $1.73 per hour per self checkout.

... and that's at current prices for a random joe walking in off the street and buying a system. I'm sure that Target and Walmart are getting a volume discount. Then, like all computer-based technology, the cost goes down every time you blink.

Are you so sure that a $7.50/h cashier job is safe from being replaced by a self checkout?

BTW: there's another factor driving self checkouts: real estate. 8 self checkouts take up less square footage than 8 human-staffed tills. Stores can then either use the freed-up space for products or (especially for newly-built stores) go with a smaller footprint and save money on rent or construction costs.

 

[Laniakea]

So you think a cashier's job is safe from self checkout if they make $7.50/h?

Let's do some back-of-the-envelope math for a grocery store:

- assume the store is open 105 hours per week (based on my local store - 7:00-10:00), so 5,460 h/y.
- assume $125,000 per 4 units for a self checkout system (typical $ I found from googling), and assume the system lasts 10 years (pulled out of my butt, but seems reasonable).
- assume that a grocery store has 8 self checkouts and 1 staff to monitor (let's pay them $7.50/h, to reflect the wage you mentioned).
- assume $100/month per unit for subscription fees, maintenance, etc. (seems in line with what I could google, though those fees were mostly for restaurants).

This puts the annualized cost at $34,600/y for the system and $40,950/y for the one staff, or $75,500/y total.

This works out to $1.73 per hour per self checkout.

... and that's at current prices for a random joe walking in off the street and buying a system. I'm sure that Target and Walmart are getting a volume discount. Then, like all computer-based technology, the cost goes down every time you blink.

Are you so sure that a $7.50/h cashier job is safe from being replaced by a self checkout?

BTW: there's another factor driving self checkouts: real estate. 8 self checkouts take up less square footage than 8 human-staffed tills. Stores can then either use the freed-up space for products or (especially for newly-built stores) go with a smaller footprint and save money on rent or construction costs.

Not sure about those costs of the units, but I've heard that they can cost only around $5,000 per unit, although here's a link to one that's not even $1,000: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256...4efef2&afSmartRedirect=y&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

Either way, less than the cost of a human cashier. Now, $7.50 is still more than the machine, but there can be other reasons to keep a human on the job, which becomes less worthwhile if they have to be paid $20 per hour.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Not sure about those costs of the units, but I've heard that they can cost only around $5,000 per unit, although here's a link to one that's not even $1,000: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256...4efef2&afSmartRedirect=y&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

... which would bring that per-hour cost down even more.

Either way, less than the cost of a human cashier.

Much less.

Now, $7.50 is still more than the machine, but there can be other reasons to keep a human on the job, which becomes less worthwhile if they have to be paid $20 per hour.

I'm not sure that it's wise to bet on the largesse of people who want to pay their employees so little that to pay them less would be literally illegal.

 

[Pogo]

If the workers weren't given a living wage, they wouldn't be living.

That is your solution to poverty, just let them starve?

 

[Laniakea]

That is your solution to poverty, just let them starve?

If the people working those jobs for a given amount of pay aren't happy, then they shouldn't have agreed to do certain work for a given amount of pay. There's no use in agreeing to $7.50 or $15 an hour and then complaining that it isn't enough.
I worked a polling place this past election for $8.25 per hour. I knew it would be that much when I started, so it wouldn't make much sense for me to complain about it afterwards, would it?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If the people working those jobs for a given amount of pay aren't happy, then they shouldn't have agreed to do certain work for a given amount of pay. There's no use in agreeing to $7.50 or $15 an hour and then complaining that it isn't enough.

I dunno. Workers getting the law changed to their benefit just seems like beating corporations at their own game.

I mean, it's not like you shed a tear when a worker and employer negotiate a contract in one legal framework, but then the company's lobbyists get the law changed to the worker's detriment, do you?

 

[SkepticThinker]

If the workers weren't given a living wage, they wouldn't be living.

37.9 Million Americans are currently living in poverty.
About 40% of Americans live pay cheque to pay cheque.

40% of Americans only one missed paycheck away from poverty

Many otherwise middle-class people are "liquid-asset poor," meaning they can't withstand even a brief financial shock

www.cbsnews.com

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If the workers weren't given a living wage, they wouldn't be living.

Many of them get topped up to a living wage (or close to it) through government support programs. Even though these workers are working full time, they can't afford groceries without food stamps. IOW, every taxpayer pays to give these companies cheap labour.

 

[Pogo]

37.9 Million Americans are currently living in poverty.
About 40% of Americans live pay cheque to pay cheque.

40% of Americans only one missed paycheck away from poverty

Many otherwise middle-class people are "liquid-asset poor," meaning they can't withstand even a brief financial shock

www.cbsnews.com

Hey this is Merika, we get paid by cheCK except the elitists who get it delivered to their banks directly.