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Some Evidence for the Truth of Islam

yassin

Member
I'tell you some evidence for the truth of Islam,in general points,then i'll eaxplain every point.
(1) The Scientific Miracles in the Holy Quran

(2) The Great Challenge to Produce One Chapter Like the Chapters of the Holy Quran

(3) Biblical Prophecies on the Advent of Muhammad , the Prophet of Islam

(4) The Verses in the Quran That Mention Future Events Which Later Came to Pass

(5) Miracles Performed by the Prophet Muhammad

(6) The Simple Life of Muhammad

(7) The Phenomenal Growth of Islam
 

Smoke

Done here.
Even if true, #6 & #7 prove nothing.
Some of them aren't true. The rest of them wouldn't mean anything if they were true.

When you read Muslim apologetics, it's easy to see why some of the most backward countries in the world are Muslim countries.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Some of them aren't true. The rest of them wouldn't mean anything if they were true.

When you read Muslim apologetics, it's easy to see why some of the most backward countries in the world are Muslim countries.

I don't argue your points, but I left them for someone else to go there.
Thanx for picking up the slack.
(Then there's that whole marrying & boinking a 9 year old girl which creeps me out.)
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
If you find Islam to be true, those things will support your view. If you don't find Islam to be true, none of those things are going to convince you otherwise.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I'tell you some evidence for the truth of Islam,in general points,then i'll eaxplain every point.
(1) The Scientific Miracles in the Holy Quran
There are none that I've seen so far. We've had a number of people come here proclaiming supposed "scientific miracles" in the Quran, and their arguments have failed every time.

(2) The Great Challenge to Produce One Chapter Like the Chapters of the Holy Quran
What does this even mean? What are the specific criteria that a chapter would have to meet to have it count as "like the chapters of the Holy Quran"?

(3) Biblical Prophecies on the Advent of Muhammad , the Prophet of Islam

(4) The Verses in the Quran That Mention Future Events Which Later Came to Pass

(5) Miracles Performed by the Prophet Muhammad
But your source for these three is the Quran, right?

You do realize that a written account of a miracle is not the same thing as an actual miracile, don't you?

(6) The Simple Life of Muhammad
They're making a Season 6? I had no idea.

I guess with Paris Hilton's recent arrest, they needed someone else for Nicole Richie to work with.

(7) The Phenomenal Growth of Islam
So?
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
I'tell you some evidence for the truth of Islam,in general points,then i'll eaxplain every point.
(1) The Scientific Miracles in the Holy Quran
That's an oxymoron. There is no such thing as a "scientific miracle".

(2) The Great Challenge to Produce One Chapter Like the Chapters of the Holy Quran
An arbitrary challenge, since "like the holy Qur'an" could mean any number of different things. I have met this challenge with a variety of texts, and each time the person making the challenge changed what they meant by "like".

(3) Biblical Prophecies on the Advent of Muhammad , the Prophet of Islam
Significant religious figures pop-up in a variety of religious texts.

(4) The Verses in the Quran That Mention Future Events Which Later Came to Pass
Which verses?

(5) Miracles Performed by the Prophet Muhammad
Then provide historical/archeological evidence that they occurred.

(6) The Simple Life of Muhammad
I know many people who live simple lives. What does it prove?

(7) The Phenomenal Growth of Islam
Scientology is also growing very rapidly. Again, what does it prove?
 

yassin

Member
In the Holy Quran, God speaks about the stages of man’s embryonic development:

We created man from an extract of clay. Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed. Then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech, suspended thing, and blood clot), then We made the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed substance)... 1 (Quran, 23:12-14)

Literally, the Arabic word alaqah has three meanings: (1) leech, (2) suspended thing, and (3) blood clot.

In comparing a leech to an embryo in the alaqah stage, we find similarity between the two2 as we can see in figure 1. Also, the embryo at this stage obtains nourishment from the blood of the mother, similar to the leech, which feeds on the blood of others.3
The second meaning of the word alaqah is “suspended thing.” This is what we can see in figures 2 and 3, the suspension of the embryo, during the alaqah stage, in the womb of the mother.
The third meaning of the word alaqah is “blood clot.” We find that the external appearance of the embryo and its sacs during the alaqah stage is similar to that of a blood clot. This is due to the presence of relatively large amounts of blood present in the embryo during this stage4 (see figure 4). Also during this stage, the blood in the embryo does not circulate until the end of the third week.5 Thus, the embryo at this stage is like a clot of blood.
So the three meanings of the word alaqah correspond accurately to the descriptions of the embryo at the alaqah stage.
The next stage mentioned in the verse is the mudghah stage. The Arabic word mudghah means “chewed substance.” If one were to take a piece of gum and chew it in his or her mouth and then compare it with an embryo at the mudghah stage, we would conclude that the embryo at the mudghah stage acquires the appearance of a chewed substance. This is because of the somites at the back of the embryo that “somewhat resemble teethmarks in a chewed substance.”6 (see figures 5 and 6).
How could Muhammad have possibly known all this 1400 years ago, when scientists have only recently discovered this using advanced equipment and powerful microscopes which did not exist at that time? Hamm and Leeuwenhoek were the first scientists to observe human sperm cells (spermatozoa) using an improved microscope in 1677 (more than 1000 years after Muhammad ). They mistakenly thought that the sperm cell contained a miniature preformed human being that grew when it was deposited in the female genital tract.7
Professor Emeritus Keith L. Moore8 is one of the world’s most prominent scientists in the fields of anatomy and embryology and is the author of the book entitled The Developing Human, which has been translated into eight languages. This book is a scientific reference work and was chosen by a special committee in the United States as the best book authored by one person. Dr. Keith Moore is Professor Emeritus of Anatomy and Cell Biology at the University of Toronto, Toronto, Canada. There, he was Associate Dean of Basic Sciences at the Faculty of Medicine and for 8 years was the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy. In 1984, he received the most distinguished award presented in the field of anatomy in Canada, the J.C.B. Grant Award from the Canadian Association of Anatomists. He has directed many international associations, such as the Canadian and American Association of Anatomists and the Council of the Union of Biological Sciences.
In 1981, during the Seventh Medical Conference in Dammam, Saudi Arabia, Professor Moore said: “It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Quran about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God, because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of God.”
Consequently, Professor Moore was asked the following question: “Does this mean that you believe that the Quran is the word of God?” He replied: “I find no difficulty in accepting this.”10
During one conference, Professor Moore stated: “....Because the staging of human embryos is complex, owing to the continuous process of change during development, it is proposed that a new system of classification could be developed using the terms mentioned in the Quran and Sunnah (what Muhammad said, did, or approved of). The proposed system is simple, comprehensive, and conforms with present embryological knowledge. The intensive studies of the Quran and hadeeth (reliably transmitted reports by the Prophet Muhammad’s companions of what he said, did, or approved of) in the last four years have revealed a system for classifying human embryos that is amazing since it was recorded in the seventh century A.D. Although Aristotle, the founder of the science of embryology, realized that chick embryos developed in stages from his studies of hen’s eggs in the fourth century B.C., he did not give any details about these stages. As far as it is known from the history of embryology, little was known about the staging and classification of human embryos until the twentieth century. For this reason, the descriptions of the human embryo in the Quran cannot be based on scientific knowledge in the seventh century. The only reasonable conclusion is: these descriptions were revealed to Muhammad from God. He could not have known such details because he was an illiterate man with absolutely no scientific training.
 

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
If you find Islam to be true, those things will support your view. If you don't find Islam to be true, none of those things are going to convince you otherwise.

this is my stance in every one of these "Islam/Qur'an proves science" type threads.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
this is my stance in every one of these "Islam/Qur'an proves science" type threads.
The thing that always gets me about them is that if the Quran really did contain the value for the speed of light or whatever other scientific tidbit the person is arguing, then why do we not have any record of Muslims proclaiming these scientific facts a thousand years before they were observed by scientists? I mean, the Quran really was filled to the brim with specific scientific information all along that was just waiting for someone to read it, then how could people have missed them all this time?

Were the billions of devout Muslims who have diligently studied the Quran in depth for centuries upon centuries just not paying attention?
 

yassin

Member
Were the billions of devout Muslims who have diligently studied the Quran in depth for centuries upon centuries just not paying attention?[/quote]
Believe me,i asking my self this question,but the fact i still don't have the answer
In Quraan there are many scientific evidences, It's real,no doubt in it.
 

DeitySlayer

President of Chindia
"The seed having been cast into the womb or into the earth - for there is no difference [he says] then after a certain definite period a great number of parts become constituted in the substance which is being generated; these differ as regards moisture, dryness, coldness and warmth, and in all the other qualities which naturally derive therefrom [such as hardness, softness, viscosity, friability, lightness, heaviness, density, rarity, smoothness, roughness, thickness and thinness]. Now nature constructs bone, cartilage, nerve, membrane, ligament, vein and so forth at the first stage of the animal's genesis, employing at this task a faculty which is, in general terms, generative and alterative, and, in more detail, warming, chilling, drying and moistening, or such as spring from the blending of these, for example, the bone-producing, nerve-producing and cartilage-producing, faculties (since for the sake of clearness these terms must be used as well).

Now the peculiar flesh of the liver is of a certain specific kind, also that of the spleen, that of the kidneys and that of the lungs, and that of the heart, so also the proper substance of the brain, stomach, oesophagus, intestines and uterus is a sensible element, of similar parts all through, simple and uncompounded.

... Thus the special alterative faculties in each animal are of the same number as the elementary parts, and further, the activities must necessarily correspond each to one of the special parts, just as each part has its special use. As for the actual substance of the coats of the stomach, intestine and uterus, each of these has been rendered what it is by a special alterative faculty of Nature; while the bringing of these together, the combination therewith of the structures that are inserted into them, etc., have all been determined by a faculty which we call the shaping or formative faculty; this faculty we also state to be artistic-nay, the best and highest art-doing everything for some purpose, so that there is nothing ineffective or superfluous, or capable of being better disposed.

"I return again to what was postponed from the beginning. This (embryo) draws to itself through the vessels descending to the uterus blood and pneuma, each to its own particular cavity; and, as was said earlier also, along with its own particular cavity ; and as was said earlier also, along with the pneuma that comes through the arteries, it draws in a blood that is finer and warmer than the blood in the veins.

From these it creates tile warmest of the inner organs; and that other thick blood produces for it the form of the liver. And accordingly the many veins that pass through the chorion proceed to (the liver); but the arteries (proceed) to the other organ, the warmer one, which because of a superabundance of heat like a flame does not stop moving but constantly expands and contracts by turns. The veins and arteries that carry matter to these inner organs are as it were their roots; and those that carry (the matter) out to the whole foetus are analogous to trunks that split into many branches. And they too have their generation in the hollowing out of the substance of the semen.

The third of the ruling parts, from which all the nerves grow. has its generation from the semen itself and from it alone. For in the mixing with the female semen many of the bubbles burst, and the pneuma from them passed inside and deep down, in the desire to preserve itself- it was not a kind of vapour but was a self-moving source of the animal and likewise the surrounding fluid of its own accord formed within the semen a cavity filled with pneuma. Then to prevent its being readily emptied out, (the puenma) makes for itself a tightly sealed chamber, pushing back to the outer circumference all that was thicker and harder in the semen's moist substance surrounding it; and this, when heated and dried, would in time be alone

The power that moulds the animal performs this work at the start; but it is not yet visible at the start because of its small size; when it can first be seen, these are the largest and they lie in order, close to each other and touching, the part that is going to become the source of the nerves, the one that we call the brain being assigned to a higher post; and below it the heart and liver touching each other. As time goes on the three sources mentioned stand further apart and send their offshoots this way and that to the entire body of the animal that is fitted to them, the brain sending out the spinal medulla, a kind of trunk, as it were, the heart the greatest artery, which Aristotle calls the aorta, and the liver the vena cava. And also in the early stages, simultaneously with the generation of these parts, the spine appears around the spinal medulla, hardened in just the way that we described a little earlier; and around the brain, enclosing it on all sides, the cranium appears; and the thorax around the heart, like some spacious yet tightly sealed chamber. At the time of birth this would be not a chamber only, but the first and principal organ of respiration. These parts, then, come into being at some later time.

But let us take the account back again to the first conformation of the animal, and in order to make our account orderly and clear, let us divide the creation of the foetus overall into four periods of time. The first is that in which as is seen both in abortions and in dissection, the form of the semen prevails. At this time, Hippocrates too, the all marvellous, does not yet call the conformation of the animal a foetus; as we heard just now in the case of semen voided in the sixth day, he still calls it semen. But when it has been filled with blood, and heart, brain and liver are still unarticulated and unshaped yet have by now a certain solidarity and considerable size, this is the second period; the substance of the foetus has the form of flesh and no longer the form of semen. Accordingly you would find that Hippocrates too no longer calls such a form semen but, as was said, foetus. The third period follows on this, when, as was said, it is possible to see the three ruling parts clearly and a kind of outline, a silhouette, as it were, of all the other parts. You will see the conformation of the three ruling parts more clearly, that of the parts of the stomach more dimly, and much more still, that of the limbs. Later on they form "twigs", as Hippocrates expressed it, indicating by the term their similarity to branches.

The fourth and final period is at the stage when all the parts in the limbs have been differentiated; and at this part Hippocrates the marvellous no longer calls the foetus an embryo only, but already a child, too when he says that it jerks and moves as an animal now fully formed."

- Galen -

This is:

a) More detailed than the Qur'an
b) About 500 years earlier than the Qur'an, Galen being alive in the 2nd Century AD

Score one for rational science.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Believe me,i asking my self this question,but the fact i still don't have the answer
In Quraan there are many scientific evidences, It's real,no doubt in it.
So... when you look at the Quran, you think it's more reasonable to dismiss more than a millenium of Muslim scholars as myopic fools than it is for you to acknowledge that you might be reading things into the text that aren't really there?

Interesting. It seems you have a very high opinion of yourself.
 

A Thousand Suns

Rationalist
"The seed having been cast into the womb or into the earth - for there is no difference [he says] then after a certain definite period a great number of parts become constituted in the substance which is being generated; these differ as regards moisture, dryness, coldness and warmth, and in all the other qualities which naturally derive therefrom [such as hardness, softness, viscosity, friability, lightness, heaviness, density, rarity, smoothness, roughness, thickness and thinness]. Now nature constructs bone, cartilage, nerve, membrane, ligament, vein and so forth at the first stage of the animal's genesis, employing at this task a faculty which is, in general terms, generative and alterative, and, in more detail, warming, chilling, drying and moistening, or such as spring from the blending of these, for example, the bone-producing, nerve-producing and cartilage-producing, faculties (since for the sake of clearness these terms must be used as well).

Now the peculiar flesh of the liver is of a certain specific kind, also that of the spleen, that of the kidneys and that of the lungs, and that of the heart, so also the proper substance of the brain, stomach, oesophagus, intestines and uterus is a sensible element, of similar parts all through, simple and uncompounded.

... Thus the special alterative faculties in each animal are of the same number as the elementary parts, and further, the activities must necessarily correspond each to one of the special parts, just as each part has its special use. As for the actual substance of the coats of the stomach, intestine and uterus, each of these has been rendered what it is by a special alterative faculty of Nature; while the bringing of these together, the combination therewith of the structures that are inserted into them, etc., have all been determined by a faculty which we call the shaping or formative faculty; this faculty we also state to be artistic-nay, the best and highest art-doing everything for some purpose, so that there is nothing ineffective or superfluous, or capable of being better disposed.

"I return again to what was postponed from the beginning. This (embryo) draws to itself through the vessels descending to the uterus blood and pneuma, each to its own particular cavity; and, as was said earlier also, along with its own particular cavity ; and as was said earlier also, along with the pneuma that comes through the arteries, it draws in a blood that is finer and warmer than the blood in the veins.

From these it creates tile warmest of the inner organs; and that other thick blood produces for it the form of the liver. And accordingly the many veins that pass through the chorion proceed to (the liver); but the arteries (proceed) to the other organ, the warmer one, which because of a superabundance of heat like a flame does not stop moving but constantly expands and contracts by turns. The veins and arteries that carry matter to these inner organs are as it were their roots; and those that carry (the matter) out to the whole foetus are analogous to trunks that split into many branches. And they too have their generation in the hollowing out of the substance of the semen.

The third of the ruling parts, from which all the nerves grow. has its generation from the semen itself and from it alone. For in the mixing with the female semen many of the bubbles burst, and the pneuma from them passed inside and deep down, in the desire to preserve itself- it was not a kind of vapour but was a self-moving source of the animal and likewise the surrounding fluid of its own accord formed within the semen a cavity filled with pneuma. Then to prevent its being readily emptied out, (the puenma) makes for itself a tightly sealed chamber, pushing back to the outer circumference all that was thicker and harder in the semen's moist substance surrounding it; and this, when heated and dried, would in time be alone

The power that moulds the animal performs this work at the start; but it is not yet visible at the start because of its small size; when it can first be seen, these are the largest and they lie in order, close to each other and touching, the part that is going to become the source of the nerves, the one that we call the brain being assigned to a higher post; and below it the heart and liver touching each other. As time goes on the three sources mentioned stand further apart and send their offshoots this way and that to the entire body of the animal that is fitted to them, the brain sending out the spinal medulla, a kind of trunk, as it were, the heart the greatest artery, which Aristotle calls the aorta, and the liver the vena cava. And also in the early stages, simultaneously with the generation of these parts, the spine appears around the spinal medulla, hardened in just the way that we described a little earlier; and around the brain, enclosing it on all sides, the cranium appears; and the thorax around the heart, like some spacious yet tightly sealed chamber. At the time of birth this would be not a chamber only, but the first and principal organ of respiration. These parts, then, come into being at some later time.

But let us take the account back again to the first conformation of the animal, and in order to make our account orderly and clear, let us divide the creation of the foetus overall into four periods of time. The first is that in which as is seen both in abortions and in dissection, the form of the semen prevails. At this time, Hippocrates too, the all marvellous, does not yet call the conformation of the animal a foetus; as we heard just now in the case of semen voided in the sixth day, he still calls it semen. But when it has been filled with blood, and heart, brain and liver are still unarticulated and unshaped yet have by now a certain solidarity and considerable size, this is the second period; the substance of the foetus has the form of flesh and no longer the form of semen. Accordingly you would find that Hippocrates too no longer calls such a form semen but, as was said, foetus. The third period follows on this, when, as was said, it is possible to see the three ruling parts clearly and a kind of outline, a silhouette, as it were, of all the other parts. You will see the conformation of the three ruling parts more clearly, that of the parts of the stomach more dimly, and much more still, that of the limbs. Later on they form "twigs", as Hippocrates expressed it, indicating by the term their similarity to branches.

The fourth and final period is at the stage when all the parts in the limbs have been differentiated; and at this part Hippocrates the marvellous no longer calls the foetus an embryo only, but already a child, too when he says that it jerks and moves as an animal now fully formed."

- Galen -

This is:

a) More detailed than the Qur'an
b) About 500 years earlier than the Qur'an, Galen being alive in the 2nd Century AD

Score one for rational science.
First you can write a complete book on embryology in Quran which is 100x more detailed than this

secondly , who will confirm the authenticity of the things you wrote ,trust me in such a long time its impossible to preserve a note this big

On the other hand Quran was wrote on bones,skins etc and memorized by many companions of Prophet Muhammad(Pbuh) , it was only later 30-40 years after Prophets(pbuh) death that Quran was given a book form

I wonder how Galen's writings which is 2000 years old according to you, preserved till now.impossible!!
 
Last edited:

DeitySlayer

President of Chindia
First you can write a complete book on embryology in Quran which is 100x more detailed than this

The information in the Qur'an concerning embryology is not this detailed. Inarguable fact.

secondly , who will confirm the authenticity of the things you wrote ,trust me in such a long time its impossible to preserve a note this big

Ditto the Qur'an. Galen's writings were widely distributed. He was not a religious figure or leader of society, merely a scientist and philosopher. There would be no reason to change his writings to make them relevant to modern day science throughout the ages. People would merely have written new books.

On the other hand Quran was wrote on bones,skins etc and memorized by many companions of Prophet Muhammad(Pbuh) , it was only later 30-40 years after Prophets(pbuh) death that Quran was given a book form

Memorized form is much more unreliable than written words.

I wonder how Galen's writings which is 2000 years old according to you, preserved till now.impossible!!

Galen's writings are approx. 1800 years old. You say a preservation period of this long is 'impossible'. Therefore, in 400 years or so, will the preservation of the Qur'an be 'impossible'?
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Galen's writings are approx. 1800 years old. You say a preservation period of this long is 'impossible'. Therefore, in 400 years or so, will the preservation of the Qur'an be 'impossible'?
The "argument" is rather pathetic, isn't it. I am more curious why some Muslims feel a need to both believe and, in turn, trumpet this kind of drivel.
 

DeitySlayer

President of Chindia
Very sly edit there, Thousand Suns.

However, I fail to see how either writing on a skin or palm leaf, or writing in a book, is more superior to the other. Written form = written form.

To be super-picky about this, the written book form of Galen's embryology teachings is MORE accurate and likely to be preserved; the multiple copies would corrobate each other and prevent a distorted copy entering circulation, as it would quickly be shown to be incorrect by the other copies. The Qur'an, however, if only written on a select few skins/leaves for 40 or so years, was highly suspectible to change and distortion.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
I'tell you some evidence for the truth of Islam,in general points,then i'll eaxplain every point.
(1) The Scientific Miracles in the Holy Quran

(2) The Great Challenge to Produce One Chapter Like the Chapters of the Holy Quran

(3) Biblical Prophecies on the Advent of Muhammad , the Prophet of Islam

(4) The Verses in the Quran That Mention Future Events Which Later Came to Pass

(5) Miracles Performed by the Prophet Muhammad

(6) The Simple Life of Muhammad

(7) The Phenomenal Growth of Islam

You do no good service to your religion posting this well worn and tired nonsense.
 

tmThEMaN

Member
If any religion is 100% clear to be true and there's no place to argue. Then everyone would follow that religion and therefore the idea of faith becomes non-relevant.

Every religion can be argued against and if someone is not willing to believe, then they will always find a counter to the proof.

Belief is a tough road to walk. It has to start with an open mind and willingness to accept the message.

Atheism is easiest of all beliefs ... theres simply nothing to believe. That's why atheist are usually the first to fight religion without worrying about what others would fight with.

The first step is to accept that there's a god/creator, the evidence to God's exists is easy if you look with an open mind. Then find the best way to thank him for his gifts and pray to him to protect us.

Religion is a framework to worship God. You either invent your own framework, or you try to find out if God did send a framework through messengers and verify their claim. If you believe in that messenger, then you follow what he/she preaches to attain God's acceptance.

God does not need us, we need God and it is not God's duty to make us believe, we have to look for God and believe in him. That's our test.
 

Kerr

Well-Known Member
If any religion is 100% clear to be true and there's no place to argue. Then everyone would follow that religion and therefore the idea of faith becomes non-relevant.

Every religion can be argued against and if someone is not willing to believe, then they will always find a counter to the proof.

Belief is a tough road to walk. It has to start with an open mind and willingness to accept the message.

Atheism is easiest of all beliefs ... theres simply nothing to believe. That's why atheist are usually the first to fight religion without worrying about what others would fight with.

The first step is to accept that there's a god/creator, the evidence to God's exists is easy if you look with an open mind. Then find the best way to thank him for his gifts and pray to him to protect us.

Religion is a framework to worship God. You either invent your own framework, or you try to find out if God did send a framework through messengers and verify their claim. If you believe in that messenger, then you follow what he/she preaches to attain God's acceptance.

God does not need us, we need God and it is not God's duty to make us believe, we have to look for God and believe in him. That's our test.
Atheists do not believe in nothing. Some of us believe in many things. Just not gods, and in my case, nothing supernatural. That is not nothing.

And to be honest, I find that a belief in gods would be easier, especially on an emotional level. But it wouldn´t make sense to me. I guess what is easy to believe is different from person to person.
 
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