"Some Feminists are Man-Haters"

[Revoltingest]

Basically. It's along the same slurs of telling women you're being shrill when you're speaking your mind about something the rest of the group doesn't agree with. It's just a way to shut people up.

This seems much like the slur of calling us "rape apogogist", "privileged", & "misogynist" as a means of dismissing & silencing us.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Basically. It's along the same slurs of telling women you're being shrill when you're speaking your mind about something the rest of the group doesn't agree with. It's just a way to shut people up.

It's that annoying thing called the Tone Argument. It's been tried against me here and it's just as inane as the rest of the tactics.

Heck, I was told that saying "gaslighting" was abusive. That's not only passive-aggressive, but laughable. It's as laughable as that one time I was told by another member that women don't have orgasms because we don't ejaculate.

I've been here at RF for ten years now. And there are patterns of various targeted groups here for trolling. But there are instances in my ten years here that I think qualify as great candidates for the Darwin Awards as posts and/or exchanges.

 

[LittlePinky82]

This seems much like the slur of calling us "rape apogogist", "privileged", & "misogynist" as a means of dismissing & silencing us.

If you're doing that though it's not. Telling a woman she deserved it is being a rape apologist, being a certain part of society (like a straight white male) is privilege, calling a woman a ***** is misogynist. When you act like that you deserve to be dismissed. Do you deserve to be silenced? No, because I'd rather people know who does do those things so people can decide to engage you or stay away (I mean general you).

It's that annoying thing called the Tone Argument. It's been tried against me here and it's just as inane as the rest of the tactics.

Heck, I was told that saying "gaslighting" was abusive. That's not only passive-aggressive, but laughable. It's as laughable as that one time I was told by another member that women don't have orgasms because we don't ejaculate.

I've been here at RF for ten years now. And there are patterns of various targeted groups here for trolling. But there are instances in my ten years here that I think qualify as great candidates for the Darwin Awards as posts and/or exchanges.

What in the world is gas lightning? And women don't have orgasms? Oh I beg to differ.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

If you're doing that though it's not. Telling a woman she deserved it is being a rape apologist, being a certain part of society (like a straight white male) is privilege, calling a woman a ***** is misogynist. When you act like that you deserve to be dismissed. Do you deserve to be silenced? No, because I'd rather people know who does do those things so people can decide to engage you or stay away.


What in the world is gas lightning? And women don't have orgasms? Oh I beg to differ.

Gaslighting is a term utilized mostly by feminist writers to describe the interpersonal phenomenon of convincing another person (typically women) that what they are experiencing isn't reality. It's a tactic that is used cognitively or subconsciously to dismiss the experiences of another party while seeing that the experience does actually exist, but that they wish to convince the other party that their experience is all in their head and they don't have a handle on the "truth" like they do.

So, in other words, it's like telling someone who was assaulted and battered that their calling the police to report an assault/battery is abusive and misleading...because in their eyes, they didn't REALLY suffer battery and shouldn't use the police to bully them.

It's highly manipulative and passive aggressive.

 

[LittlePinky82]

Gaslighting is a term utilized mostly by feminist writers to describe the interpersonal phenomenon of convincing another person (typically women) that what they are experiencing isn't reality. It's a tactic that is used cognitively or subconsciously to dismiss the experiences of another party while seeing that the experience does actually exist, but that they wish to convince the other party that their experience is all in their head and they don't have a handle on the "truth" like they do.

So, in other words, it's like telling someone who was assaulted and battered that their calling the police to report an assault/battery is abusive and misleading...because in their eyes, they didn't REALLY suffer battery and shouldn't use the police to bully them.

It's highly manipulative and passive aggressive.

Ah got ya. I had not heard that one before. I agree with you on that. Thank you for explaining to me. New one on me.

 

[Sapiens]

Funny how "Some feminists are man-hatters" keeps coming up in conversations about feminism, even when the topic is not specifically about those relatively few feminists who are indeed man-hatters. Funny, because the same people who bring up the point are quite often not the sort of people to say things like, "Some Progressives beat their dogs" or "Some Conservatives are drunkards" in general conversations about Progressives or Conservatives, for instance.

It would be one thing if the point that "some feminists are man-hatters" only came up in conversations specifically about feminist man-hatters, but why does it come up so frequently in just about any conversation about feminism?

Do you think it's a clever slur? Why or why not?

Do you think there's a bit of a double standard here in the sense that all feminists, apparently, are expected to be decent people, but not all Progressives, Conservatives, etc? Why or why not?

What do you think?

I think that some men have provided some women (feminist and otherwise) with ample reason for such an attitude. Of course it falls into the trap of stereotyping and prejudgment, but there it is, just the same.

 

[Thanda]

calling a woman a ***** is misogynist

Only if calling a man a "dog" or "pig" is misandrist.

 

[Revoltingest]

If you're doing that though it's not. Telling a woman she deserved it.....

But that is not something I've ever believed or said.
So it is merely an insult, a red herring, & a tactic to erase a perspective.

....being a certain part of society (like a straight white male) is privilege.....

Being a female comes with its privileges too.
But a common reason for pointing out male "privilege" is to dismiss views.

...calling a woman a ***** is misogynist.

Calling a man a **** is its doppelganger, & would be misandrist.

When you act like that you deserve to be dismissed.

Have I acted like that? No.
Do you deserve to be dismissed when you act like that?

Do you deserve to be silenced? No, because I'd rather people know who does do those things so people can decide to engage you or stay away (I mean general you).

I'm allowed to speak because people must judge how malevolent I am, eh?
This is quite the privilege....woo hoo!

What in the world is gas lightning?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_Light
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslight_(1944_film)
"Gaslighting" is to enact an elaborate plot to drive someone insane by corrupting their perception of reality.
Some have confused me with Charles Boyer.
(I don't sing though.)

 

[LittlePinky82]

Only if calling a man a "dog" or "pig" is misandrist.

Do those words have a history of putting down men for being men like the b slur?

But that is not something I've ever believed or said.
So it is merely an insult, a red herring, & a tactic to erase a perspective.

Being a female comes with its privileges too.
But a common reason for pointing out male "privilege" is to dismiss views.

Calling a man a **** is its doppelganger, & would be misandrist.

Have I acted like that? No.
Do you deserve to be dismissed when you act like that?

I'm allowed to speak because people must judge how malevolent I am, eh?
This is quite the privilege....woo hoo!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_Light
"Gaslighting" is to enact an elaborate plot to drive someone insane by corrupting their perception of reality.

Ah yes I have such privilege as a woman I'm still having to fight just to have bc and not go into bankruptcy from it. Women are still fighting to be able to have access to medical issues with our bodies as in abortion. My state alone only has one clinic that does abortions (yes I live in the south). We're even still having to fight to have equal pay for our labor. And don't forget issues dealing with assaults and battery that go on with women as well. What pray tell issues do you have as a man (and especially if you're white and straight)? The draft and that the Court doesn't just automatically give you children privileges?

I didn't say you. You know the general you yes?

I don't really care how you dismiss people. But if you're treating me with sexist garbage you're going to be dismissed. I have more self respect for myself than to let someone talk to me in that regard. If you do you just don't exist to me anymore.

Thank you for explaining gas lightning. Someone else did too. I just have never heard of that before.

Oh and I have no idea what your blurp * is supposed to be. Is it the b word too or something else?

 

[Revoltingest]

Ah yes I have such privilege as a woman I'm still having to fight just to have bc and not go into bankruptcy from it. Women are still fighting to be able to have access to medical issues with our bodies as in abortion. My state alone only has one clinic that does abortions (yes I live in the south). We're even still having to fight to have equal pay for our labor. And don't forget issues dealing with assaults and battery that go on with women as well. What pray tell issues do you have as a man (and especially if you're white and straight)?

Well, I've been discriminated against because affirmative action requirements shut me out from some jobs, eg, reactor operator at Phoenix Memorial Reactor at UofM.
I dang near fled the country to avoid the draft (lottery #34) until Nixon cancelled it.
Those things were pretty significant to me.
A friend recently put his company in his wife's name because females get preferential treatment in contracts on government property.

The draft and that the Court doesn't just automatically give you children privileges?

The draft never conferred privileges regarding children.
And the courts are friendlier to mothers than fathers.

I didn't say you. You know the general you yes?

Yes, & I spoke in the same voice in my responses.

I don't really care how you dismiss people. But if you're treating me with sexist garbage you're going to be dismissed. I have more self respect for myself than to let someone talk to me in that regard. If you do you just don't exist to me anymore.

Since I'm not treating you with sexist garbage, then why bring it up.
And turning the tables, are you not subject to the same standard?

Thank you for explaining gas lightning. Someone else did too. I just have never heard of that before.

It's a really unfortunate term.
For something so heinous & so rare (Is it even a thing outside of literature?),
the accusation of it for expressing different opinions is indeed bizarre & vile.
Note:
I did some web searching, this is becoming a thing in some circles.
Oh, dear!

Oh and I have no idea what your blurp * is supposed to be. Is it the b word too or something else?

Several words fit in that slot.
I thought that made it interesting, ie, there are so many derogatory male references based upon genitalia.

 

[Thanda]

Do those words have a history of putting down men for being men like the b slur?

No. Neither does the b word or s*** have a history of putting women down for being women. Unless being promiscuous and rude are essential components of being a women.

 

[Sapiens]

The question is whether you are calling someone something as a result of their attitudes or actions or because of the sex and nothing more.

 

[Revoltingest]

The question is whether you are calling someone something as a result of their attitudes or actions or because of the sex and nothing more.

I think connotations also matter.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

No. Neither does the b word or s*** have a history of putting women down for being women. Unless being promiscuous and rude are essential components of being a women.

Being promiscuous and being rude are behaviors that humans overall can demonstrate. However, being promiscuous and being rude without apology carries a risk factor of injury or death for one gender far more often.

This is why the specific gender slurs toward women are more problematic than being called a ********* or a man-whore.

 

[LittlePinky82]

Well, I've been discriminated against because affirmative action requirements shut me out from some jobs, eg, reactor operator at Phoenix Memorial Reactor at UofM.
I dang near fled the country to avoid the draft (lottery #34) until Nixon cancelled it.
Those things were pretty significant to me.
A friend recently put his company in his wife's name because females get preferential treatment in contracts on government property.

Do you know why we have affirmative action and the history of it? I'm sure you probably do so here's a reminder for people:

Link- http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/affirmative-action/

And how does the draft affect you now? It hasn't been used since Vietnam. My question was about now. Not years ago. So you can only point to three things?

Again, see affirmative action for your last point.

The draft never conferred privileges regarding children.
And the courts are friendlier to mothers than fathers.

Yes, & I spoke in the same voice in my responses.

Since I'm not treating you with sexist garbage, then why bring it up.
And turning the tables, are you not subject to the same standard?

So your solution about the courts is to ***** to women who have nothing to do with it? Do you know how many women are judges who make decisions on these things? How many are in state and federal legislators making these decisions? We live in a male dominated society. You should be talking to your fellow men with your grievances honestly speaking. It's great when men and women can work together on things. But the issues you've brought about are things that have come as a result of your fellow men as a gender group over time.

Because the thread was talking about it? Maybe why? And, again, I was using the general you. Not you specifically. And again with the words used it's the history of the words.

See what Mystic says. She says it better than I could. And, again no you're not the type from talking to you over time and I appreciate that a lot. You're always respectful and I couldn't see you being that way. I'm talking, again, in general.

It's a really unfortunate term.
For something so heinous & so rare (Is it even a thing outside of literature?),
the accusation of it for expressing different opinions is indeed bizarre & vile.
Note:
I did some web searching, this is becoming a thing in some circles.
Oh, dear!

Several words fit in that slot.
I thought that made it interesting, ie, there are so many derogatory male references based upon genitalia.

Well, this was my first time hearing about it. Not in terms of what the word means. I've seen that going on for as long as I've been self-aware but with the word itself. I'd never heard of that before. But no it's not rare at all. Especially when you're dealing with sex and violent crimes against women.

No. Neither does the b word or s*** have a history of putting women down for being women. Unless being promiscuous and rude are essential components of being a women.

You're kidding right? I'm called a **** and whore all the time on the internet by ridiculous people when they don't like what I'm saying. They'll call me all the typical things. Even when I did nothing to warrant it. Even if I did warrant it that's your first thing to go to is calling a woman a whore and a ****? It's sexual and it's meant to demean a woman and men aren't treated in the same in that manner. Women aren't supposed to embrace sex and their sexuality. If she doesn't behave or say things that a male thinks women should or challenges a certain type of male that's the words they go to. I can't tell you how many times over the yrs I've been called that. Thankfully it's only been online and not by people in my every day environment so say what you will about that.

Being promiscuous and being rude are behaviors that humans overall can demonstrate. However, being promiscuous and being rude without apology carries a risk factor of injury or death for one gender far more often.

This is why the specific gender slurs toward women are more problematic than being called a ********* or a man-whore.

Your last sentence said it perfectly.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Do you know why we have affirmative action and the history of it? I'm sure you probably do so here's a reminder for people:

Link- http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/affirmative-action/

And how does the draft affect you now? It hasn't been used since Vietnam. My question was about now. Not years ago. So you can only point to three things?

Again, see affirmative action for your last point.




So your solution about the courts is to ***** to women who have nothing to do with it? Do you know how many women are judges who make decisions on these things? How many are in state and federal legislators making these decisions? We live in a male dominated society. You should be talking to your fellow men with your grievances honestly speaking. It's great when men and women can work together on things. But the issues you've brought about are things that have come as a result of your fellow men as a gender group over time.

Because the thread was talking about it? Maybe why? And, again, I was using the general you. Not you specifically. And again with the words used it's the history of the words.

See what Mystic says. She says it better than I could. And, again no you're not the type from talking to you over time and I appreciate that a lot. You're always respectful and I couldn't see you being that way. I'm talking, again, in general.




Well, this was my first time hearing about it. Not in terms of what the word means. I've seen that going on for as long as I've been self-aware but with the word itself. I'd never heard of that before. But no it's not rare at all. Especially when you're dealing with sex and violent crimes against women.



You're kidding right? I'm called a **** and whore all the time on the internet by ridiculous people when they don't like what I'm saying. They'll call me all the typical things. Even when I did nothing to warrant it. Even if I did warrant it that's your first thing to go to is calling a woman a whore and a ****? It's sexual and it's meant to demean a woman and men aren't treated in the same in that manner. Women aren't supposed to embrace sex and their sexuality. If she doesn't behave or say things that a male thinks women should or challenges a certain type of male that's the words they go to. I can't tell you how many times over the yrs I've been called that. Thankfully it's only been online and not by people in my every day environment so say what you will about that.



Your last sentence said it perfectly.

I haven't seen you around much before, but your persepctive is very refreshing to me.

Belated welcome back to the forum! (And never mind the mansplanations. )

 

[Revoltingest]

Do you know why we have affirmative action and the history of it?

Yes.
But this doesn't make it any less of a privilege for you.

And how does the draft affect you now?

It doesn't, except for the well being of my children.
But draft age non-trans men must still register for it.
Do you think females have no privilege?

So your solution about the courts is to ***** to women who have nothing to do with it?

Did you see me propose ***** as a solution?
I don't even know how to spell it.

Do you know how many women are judges who make decisions on these things? How many are in state and federal legislators making these decisions? We live in a male dominated society. You should be talking to your fellow men with your grievances honestly speaking. It's great when men and women can work together on things. But the issues you've brought about are things that have come as a result of your fellow men as a gender group over time.
Because the thread was talking about it? Maybe why? And, again, I was using the general you. Not you specifically.
Well, this was my first time hearing about it. Not in terms of what the word means. I've seen that going on for as long as I've been self-aware but with the word itself. I'd never heard of that before. But no it's not rare at all. Especially when you're dealing with sex and violent crimes against women.
You're kidding right? I'm called a **** and whore all the time on the internet by ridiculous people when they don't like what I'm saying. They'll call me all the typical things. Even when I did nothing to warrant it. Even if I did warrant it that's your first thing to go to is calling a woman a whore and a ****? It's sexual and it's meant to demean a woman and men aren't treated in the same in that manner. Women aren't supposed to embrace sex and their sexuality. If she doesn't behave or say things that a male thinks women should or challenges a certain type of male that's the words they go to. I can't tell you how many times over the yrs I've been called that. Thankfully it's only been online and not by people in my every day environment so say what you will about that.

This is a Gish Gallop of questions.
Instead of answering them all (not sure which are merely rhetorical), I suggest making some specific claims by statement.
This would be easier to address than inferring meaning behind questions.

 

[LittlePinky82]

I haven't seen you around much before, but your persepctive is very refreshing to me.

Belated welcome back to the forum! (And never mind the mansplanations. )

Oh thanks. Same to you. I come and go from the forum a lot. Sometimes I just need a break from things or get bored lol. It's good to do because I'm an intense emotional person and need a break from things for a while and it's good for everyone else too when I'm getting too much.

Oh and it's fine. I have talked with Rev a lot off and on since I've been here. I enjoy talking to him. He challenges me and I like that.

 

[Revoltingest]

Belated welcome back to the forum! (And never mind the mansplanations. )

And don't forget the femsplaining!
And the manspreading...I'm really guilty of that.
Here, look.....

Spoiler: Manspreading. Ew.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Oh thanks. Same to you. I come and go from the forum a lot. Sometimes I just need a break from things or get bored lol. It's good to do because I'm an intense emotional person and need a break from things for a while and it's good for everyone else too when I'm getting too much.

Oh and it's fine. I have talked with Rev a lot off and on since I've been here. I enjoy talking to him. He challenges me and I like that.

My comment wasn't about Rev or any particular poster. I'm just saying not to bother yourself too much because of sexist arguments regardless of who they're coming from. I try to follow the same advice myself.