Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
I have met a couple myself. This is by no means an indictment of feminism. I have no idea what personal issues they were dragging around though.
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"Some Feminists are Man-Haters"
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
I have met a couple myself. This is by no means an indictment of feminism. I have no idea what personal issues they were dragging around though.
"Some feminists are man-haters" is a specific slur used. And as you can see, it's devolved into yet another "why feminism sucks" and "everything feminists get wrong".
I'm calling out the usual suspects who being little to the actual conversation except for derailment, misinformation, and non-sequitur. And i can do that because, obviously, we are in the general debates section.
I'd love to see some actual legitimate criticism, like the lack of intersectionality, the BS that is White Feminism, and TERF a second waver separatists. Unfortunately, it's the same vapid and boring arguments stemming from why feminists don't talk about men enough through lazy research and sexist-spin.
LittlePinky82
Well-Known Member
Yes because let's ignore economists on the issue shall we?
They did. As did lots of people with privilege in that time. I don't when it's your turn and everyone else has to. And if you don't have the same ways to get out that everyone else does. That's privilege.
No it's because I am a woman why they call me these things. Do you think they would call a man a ****? A *****? A ****? A whore? No. They don't. Loser isn't a sexual slur. It's used with women too. And same with scrub though that one I rarely see myself. Those example's you used don't have a history of telling women to shut up. They use those words because they KNOW I'm a woman and they called me that because they didn't like what I was saying because I was a woman saying those things. If they thought I was a man they wouldn't have called me those names.
You don't have to carry a kid for 9 months in your stomach and deal with all the emotional, mental and physical issues. That's why you should be for abortion when the woman wants it. And at the earliest stages as possible so less issues in all areas of life. All you do at the beginning of a pregnancy is separate the DNA. You can always choose to have a child at a later time when you're more financially secured or with a partner you want to have a child with.
So because you can point to Rachel Maddow supposedly being nervous on tv that means it's not real? Smh. Yes, let's compare financial wages and women's labor to people who think the Earth is flat (and who thinks that still? what?).
Yes, because we know MRA's are reliable for sources of things.
Rape in general is against the law whether male or female. You know that right? Smh. And it's usually men who do domestic violence.
Here's some links for you to read about the gender pay gap-
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/upshot/the-pay-gap-is-because-of-gender-not-jobs.html?_r=0
http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/13/news/economy/equal-pay-day-2015/index.html
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2015/04/14/the-gender-wage-gap-in-eight-charts/
Even the WSJ points out the gender gap with pay.
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freethinker44
Well-Known Member
Isn't this kind of nit-picky? Those things all exist under the same umbrella, I mean it's pretty much a thread about how non-feminists criticize feminism, and considering that just about every thread on RF tends to go wildly off topic, this thread is doing pretty good I think.
These are all criticisms feminism has with feminism. Given that this thread is about how non-feminists criticize feminism, this would be more off topic than what you're complaining about.
It was a privilege I lacked, unlike connected guys like Bill Clinton.
I get called nasty things cuz I'm a guy.
I suppose it's a privilege that I don't get called other things.
This is just as it's your privilege to not be called some things which fly in my direction.
I was pro-abortion before you were born.
Wait.....that sounds wrong!
I didn't mean to imply that I didn't want you to be born.
I've just always been very pro-bodily autonomy for everyone.
Moreover, I'm far stronger on this civil liberty than most feminists I've talked to.
You also have the privilege of living (statistically) almost a decade longer than I.
Land O Goshen!
That's one helluva privilege!
LittlePinky82
Well-Known Member
And guys like Rush Limbaugh and Donald Trump. Your point being? Privileged is privileged. You know I'm not a Democrat right? So why are you throwing Bill Clinton at me? Sorry honey he gets thrown under the bus too. Like I said, privileged is privileged. If the peasants have to do it so do the rich guys.
Like, what, exactly? So far the only names that have been posted are things women are called too and don't have a history of being slurs against you for being a male and trying to repress your voice. Even with the words that are out there (like your anatamoy the d word) is used against women too (I'm guilty of using it against both genders when people are acting beyond foolish) but you still have more power than I do because of the structure of society. It's all about the power.
I understand what you mean. You're pointing out you're older than me. And another reason why I have the privilege of living longer than you. I was born in 1982. So of course.
Bill Clinton is just a connected guy who escaped the draft.
(I don't recall others. I'm sure there are Pubs who escaped it similarly too.)
I contrasted his situation with mine.
We had no powerful family friends....our friends were all rather low class.
We all have our privileges.Like, what, exactly? So far the only names that have been posted are things women are called too and don't have a history of being slurs against you for being a male and trying to repress your voice. Even with the words that are out there (like your anatamoy the d word) is used against women too (I'm guilty of using it against both genders when people are acting beyond foolish) but you still have more power than I do because of the structure of society. It's all about the power.
I understand what you mean. You're pointing out you're older than me. And another reason why I have the privilege of living longer than you. I was born in 1982. So of course.
The problem is that some people mistakenly think they're accomplishing good by accusing others of
being privileged, while they themselves also enjoy privilege (which they just don't seem to appreciate).
Accusations of privilege don't solve any problems.
What should be addressed is disadvantage, particularly when imposed by our benevolent Uncle Sam.
LittlePinky82
Well-Known Member
Sorry but as long as you're a straight white male you're going to be the most privileged person in the first world. Accusations of privilege point out the problems society still has where we all deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. It points out what society still has to work on. To ignore it is to ignore the plight of the people who deserve to be heard. Look at issues with race and gender issues like the pay gap wage. People still deny there's issues out there with both and what does that benefit society? Even your most poorest cis white man is going to be more rich than his non white counterpart even when you're still talking about men alone. If you don't get that well I can't help you any further. I recommend starting to read and listen to Angela Davis. She's the best person I read/listened to about these issues whether it's gender or race. And yes I as a woman have my own privileges and as such use them appropriately to help people who don't and to try to use my voice to help my brothers and sisters who are still struggling to get to where even I as a cis white woman am even with the issues we still face. My counter parts in non white races deserve to be where I am and deserve to be protected as much as I am.
Oh and don't forget George W Bush went AWOL.
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The grass is always greener on the other side.
I'll trade you my privileges for your living a decade longer.
You can still keep your preferential treatment in gov contracts.
(I don't need that.)
Deal?
Tis better to focus upon problems which need fixing,
than to criticize people we imagine have it too good in life.
I've heard that said, but I've never looked into it.
Remember, I'm not a Republican, so I'm not their apologist.
LittlePinky82
Well-Known Member
If you're a cis white man give me your privileges. I would love them. I would love to have the voice and power cis white men have and to use it to help people without being told I'm being whiny, emotional, shrilling, a *****, told "make me a sandwich." And that's me as a white woman. Imagine my non white counterparts and the **** they get. Oh and LGBT.
Nope, tis better to point out the problems of the world and what needs fixing. Let's not ignore our privileges and where others fall short or we will never have progress. Women got the vote for getting out there and pointing out the wrong and fighting like hell for it.
And I'm not a Democrat but didn't stop you from throwing Bill Clinton in my face like I was going to defend him. Naughty.
You sure get called a lot of names.
This is wrong.
But I'd rather endure some bad names than dying a decade earlier.
(I harp on this because it goes unacknowledged.)
Btw, do you acknowledge any privileges of your own?
I didn't bring up Bill for that purpose.
He was just the only draft avoider I personally knew of who used political connections for that purpose.
When I mentioned him, I hadn't given any thought to your party affiliation.
If I had to guess, I'd have said you're a Green.
LittlePinky82
Well-Known Member
That's what you get on the internet. Thankfully, in life, I don't get called things. I'm also generally more quiet in "real life" so not much chances to be called names. But I've been on the internet since 1997 so that's a lot of time for names. I generally don't take them seriously now days (I did when I was younger of course) but they're still out there and used specifically because you're female and it's always what first comes up.
I did say this-
< And yes I as a woman have my own privileges and as such use them appropriately to help people who don't and to try to use my voice to help my brothers and sisters who are still struggling to get to where even I as a cis white woman am even with the issues we still face. My counter parts in non white races deserve to be where I am and deserve to be protected as much as I am. >
Really? Lol it's common that on social media and forums when you're in debates with people they think because you're a Communist you're a Democrat and vice versa. It's been used for years in right wing circles.
Lol I'm a Marxist-Leninist.
I bet the Greens would welcome you with open arms.
(You wouldn't like my party though.)
LittlePinky82
Well-Known Member
Probably lol but I'm more socialist than green. But they're not that different. Lol no I don't think so. But I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on the issue of privilege. You get a cupcake though cause it's been fun.
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
No not really. I never planned to do that. That was the entire point of my post. I am not really into fighting windmills.
But if you don't know about what's happening on the net with self-proclaimed feminists who in this day and age form the opinion of Feminism online then that's really bad on your part.
Or, which would be even worse, you endorse their non-egalitarian views. Though as you already wrote you don't accept the term egalitarian. Probably also not humanism and other non-harmful terms.
And since you call yourself a feminist you are included into the whole dilemma. Such is life I guess.
Yes yes its all made up. All the people who read this more often than not insane stuff written by feminists on the net all just make it up.
And because I have better stuff to do than to spend my precious time on "proving stuff"(which is actually a meme) I am part of the obvious feminist hating conspiracy. That is not insane at all.
And I wasn't passive aggressive. Probably a language barrier problem.
freethinker44
Well-Known Member
How does this show that being able to choose an abortion isn't a privilege women have that men don't?
You clearly didn't understand me (probably didn't want to). I'll try to be more clear.
Ready?
Some arguments, like the flat earth theory, are ridiculous enough that they can be laughed off without refutation. There ARE legitimate criticisms of the gender wage gap. You don't get to pretend they're ridiculous and awkwardly laugh them off. When people can't or won't refute an argument, especially when they're like a superhero at refuting arguments like this, that tells me there might be something to the argument.
??? Oh, because I said it's a big complaint from men's rights groups? Really? Do you really not understand that the justice system favors women? I didn't feel like I needed to provide a source for it because it's so basic, no one's really disputing it.
Again, this is basic stuff. It wasn't until 2012 when the FBI finally changed their definition of rape to include men, because 80% of police chiefs didn't think the current definition was adequate. That means 20% of police chiefs in the US didn't think men could be raped. How's that for a ****ty police response? And the CDC still doesn't consider it rape for female-on-male.
From your sources:
"That's the trouble with just using the 78 cents statistic: it doesn't take into account job choice, education, experience, tenure or hours worked."
"The gender gap in pay would be considerably reduced and might vanish altogether if firms did not have an incentive to disproportionately reward individuals who labored long hours and worked particular hours"
What I said in that previous post:
"that it doesn't account for different types of jobs, that men take dangerous high paying jobs more than women, that women work fewer hours on average than men, etc..."
LittlePinky82
Well-Known Member
I didn't know men could get pregnant now. Did I miss something there?
So you point to one person who maybe did this on tv and that's supposed to mean what? What does that have to do with something? Is Rachel Maddow the only and final spokes person for the issue and speaking on behalf of it and women? What exactly is your point with pointing to something Maddow supposedly did on tv?
I refuted your argument with plenty of links to people who know it more than you and I do. So there's that.
There's this-
<
“The gender gap in pay would be considerably reduced and might vanish altogether if firms did not have an incentive to disproportionately reward individuals who labored long hours and worked particular hours,” she wrote in a paper published this month in The American Economic Review.
Occupations that most value long hours, face time at the office and being on call — like business, law and surgery — tend to have the widest pay gaps. That is because those employers pay people who spend longer hours at the office disproportionately more than they pay people who don’t, Dr. Goldin found. A lawyer who works 80 hours a week at a big corporate law firm is paid more than double one who works 40 hours a week as an in-house counsel at a small business. >
From the NYTimes link.
<
Take elementary and middle school teachers, for example. Women hold more than 70% of the jobs, yet men still earn more for the same role. Male teachers earn a median of $1,096 a week, whereas women earn $956 -- about 87 cents to the man's dollar.
The gap is even more pronounced in some other everyday professions. In retail sales, women earn 70 cents to the dollar, and among full-time lawyers, women earn 83 cents. >
From the CNN link.
<
Women working full-time in the U.S. last year earned 82.5 cents for every dollar a man earned, according to the Labor Department’s weekly wage data. There are disparities across regions and occupations.
The widest gap in weekly earnings came in the legal profession, where women earn 56.7% of what men do. But nearly all jobs have gaps, from chief executive (70%) to food preparation (90.5%). >
From WSJ.
Your link to the National Justice Reference is from the United Kingdom. Considering I'm not from there, and am in the US, I'm not going to speak on it.
From your Center for Disease Control link-
<
In the United States, an estimated 19.3% of women and 1.7% of men have been raped during their lifetimes; an estimated 1.6% of women reported that they were raped in the 12 months preceding the survey. The case count for men reporting rape in the preceding 12 months was too small to produce a statistically reliable prevalence estimate. An estimated 43.9% of women and 23.4% of men experienced other forms of sexual violence during their lifetimes, including being made to penetrate, sexual coercion, unwanted sexual contact, and noncontact unwanted sexual experiences. The percentages of women and men who experienced these other forms of sexual violence victimization in the 12 months preceding the survey were an estimated 5.5% and 5.1%, respectively.
An estimated 15.2% of women and 5.7% of men have been a victim of stalking during their lifetimes. An estimated 4.2% of women and 2.1% of men were stalked in the 12 months preceding the survey.
With respect to sexual violence and stalking, female victims reported predominantly male perpetrators, whereas for male victims, the sex of the perpetrator varied by the specific form of violence examined. Male rape victims predominantly had male perpetrators, but other forms of sexual violence experienced by men were either perpetrated predominantly by women (i.e., being made to penetrate and sexual coercion) or split more evenly among male and female perpetrators (i.e., unwanted sexual contact and noncontact unwanted sexual experiences). In addition, male stalking victims also reported a more even mix of males and females who had perpetrated stalking against them. >
From the USA Today link it reported the first definition was from 85 years ago. Definitions and legal terms get updated over time as they should as life moves on and things change.
Scientific progress is upsetting some of our quaint notions.....
http://blog.sfgate.com/sfmoms/2015/...ised-by-pregnancy-halfway-through-sex-change/
"Pregnancy news is always a surprise, but it left a 29-year-old transgender man especially stunned."
"When Kayden Coleman of Philadelphia went to the doctor for a bloated stomach and aching back
in 2013, he never expected to learn that he was in his second trimester."
LittlePinky82
Well-Known Member
From your article-
<
Coleman began his transformation from a woman to a man 10 years ago and now grows facial hair and speaks with a deep voice. While he’s still in the midst of gender reassignment, he always assumed the male hormones he was taking would prevent pregnancy. >
Sure, he once had the body of a woman.
But he is a man.
(He's also not the only case of one becoming pregnant.)