Some miracles of the word Allah

[McBell]

Wait for him to cite that highlighted part before you give him a reaction…

I have edited it to include the cite
And present it here as well:
(ibn Hisham, part 4, p. 11; Chronicle of the Tabari, part 2, p. 157; Ibn Kathir, "The Prophetic Biography", part 3, p. 549, Ibn Kathir, "The Beginning and the End"; Ibn Khaldun, the rest of part 2, p. 43 and on; Al-Sira al-Halabiyya, Vol. 3. p. 18; Al-Sohaily, Al Road Al Anf, part 4, p. 90; Dr. Muhammad Sa�id Ramadan al-Buti, "Jurisprudence in Muhammad'�s Biography",7th ed., p.277)

 

[TashaN]

No. Jesus was sinless as you and I agree.

Wrong answer. Don't escape now from your original argument by going into another. Your main argument was that Jesus was born of a virgin and whether there were sins involved or not that's a different story and irrelevant.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

I have edited it to include the cite
And present it here as well:
(ibn Hisham, part 4, p. 11; Chronicle of the Tabari, part 2, p. 157; Ibn Kathir, "The Prophetic Biography", part 3, p. 549, Ibn Kathir, "The Beginning and the End"; Ibn Khaldun, the rest of part 2, p. 43 and on; Al-Sira al-Halabiyya, Vol. 3. p. 18; Al-Sohaily, Al Road Al Anf, part 4, p. 90; Dr. Muhammad Sa�id Ramadan al-Buti, "Jurisprudence in Muhammad'�s Biography",7th ed., p.277)

Nice mesty. Do you know who Abu Sufyan was?

If Islam compelled the muslims to kill all who do not become muslim, don't you think we here at the forums would at least be constantly harrassing you, since we can't kill you?

I'm not surprised, This is what people really think of muslims regardless of whatever good character we try to display. The majority of our time here, we have tried to be civil in our arguments, and trying not to step on people's toes, but alas, we are potential murderers, and I guess you've "proved it with the final proof from Islam itself that we are the murderers you think we are"........ what a load of crap that is.

 

[McBell]

Nice mesty. Do you know who Abu Sufyan was?

If Islam compelled the muslims to kill all who do not become muslim, don't you think we here at the forums would at least be constantly harrassing you, since we can't kill you?

I'm not surprised, This is what people really think of muslims regardless of whatever good character we try to display. The majority of our time here, we have tried to be civil in our arguments, and trying not to step on people's toes, but alas, we are potential murderers, and I guess you've "proved it with the final proof from Islam itself that we are the murderers you think we are"........ what a load of crap that is.

Yes I do know who Abu Sufyan was.
Is there a point or was the question merely an ice breaker for the BS that followed?
You deny the history of your religion all you want.
Your denial does not change it.

what a load of crap that is.

Yep.
funny thing is...YOU are the one spewing it.

 

[Mary23]

"I have been ordered by God to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his messenger, and that they establish prayer and pay Zakat (money). If they do it, their blood and their property are safe from me" (see Bukhari Vol. I, p. 13)

Surah 9:5
But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every strategem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
Yusaf Ali, Abdullah. The Qur'an Translation. Seventeenth US ed. Elmhurst, New York: Tahrike Tarsile Qur'an, Inc., 2006. 114.

These were the verses revealed at the time whenunbelievers of Mecca broke their oath and that was,
" Mulims will not perform pilgrimage in this year, and there will be no fight among the Muslims and Unbelievers of Mecca till 10 years"

as the Muslims were intended fot pilgrimage and yet they were asked to go back. BUT Muslims showed no react. they accept the agreement.
but after that the unbelievers of Madina, made the plan with Mecca, to kill Muhammad pbuh, by saying that
" Ok! poeple of Mecca, if you have the oath and what's wrong with us? you are bound of oath but we are not then, they secrately planed to kill Muhammad pbuh"

As the unbelievers of Mecca were already agree to do so,they agreed and they aurged the unbelievers of Madina against Muhmmad pbuh.

At this Allah informed Muhmmad pbuh about their cleverness, and REVEALED THE ABOVE VERSES. as you quote wiht out contex to create the wrongth for Islam.

story of Abu Sufyan:

When Muhammad and his followers were about to attack Mecca to subjugate it to Islam, his adherents arrested Abu Sufyan, one of Mecca’s inhabitants. They brought him to Muhammad. Muhammad told him: "Woe to you, O Abu Sufyan. Is it not time for you to realize that there is no God but the only God?" ​

Abu Sufyan answered: "I do believe that." ​

Muhammad then said to him: "Woe to you, O Abu Sufyan. Is it not time for you to know that I am the apostle of God?" ​

Abu Sufyan answered: "By God, O Muhammad, of this there is doubt in my soul." ​

The ’Abbas who was present with Muhammad told Abu Sufyan: "Woe to you! Accept Islam and testify that Muhammad is the apostle of God before your neck is cut off by the sword." ​

Thus he professed the faith of Islam and became a Muslim.​

(ibn Hisham, part 4, p. 11; Chronicle of the Tabari, part 2, p. 157; Ibn Kathir, "The Prophetic Biography", part 3, p. 549, Ibn Kathir, "The Beginning and the End"; Ibn Khaldun, the rest of part 2, p. 43 and on; Al-Sira al-Halabiyya, Vol. 3. p. 18; Al-Sohaily, Al Road Al Anf, part 4, p. 90; Dr. Muhammad Sa�id Ramadan al-Buti, "Jurisprudence in Muhammad'�s Biography",7th ed., p.277)
​

I ak you, If Muhmmad pbuh do so, then WAS ABU SUFYYAN DIVERTED FROM ISLAM AFTER ACCEPTING????
He was not accepted Islam at the fear of Muhmmad pbuh, but after accepting Islam he became the suppreme memeber of Islam. It clearifies that Muhmmad pbuh did not forced him but Abu Sufyan himself agree but he has soem kind of frear in to accept at his trible reaction ( because they were non Muslims) So, there was a need to only push Abu sufyan towards righteousness and getting out of ignorance.

If your child Let's suppose be, do not want to accept something which is right but he fears to accept. Will you not push him to release his fear???

obviously you will !!


​

 

[summia]

"I have been ordered by God to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his messenger, and that they establish prayer and pay Zakat (money). If they do it, their blood and their property are safe from me" (see Bukhari Vol. I, p. 13)





Surah 9:5
But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every strategem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
Yusaf Ali, Abdullah. The Qur'an Translation. Seventeenth US ed. Elmhurst, New York: Tahrike Tarsile Qur'an, Inc., 2006. 114.

Are u alive????

this means u really misunderstand this verse....

if such was for the Muslims u will never remain alive...

 

[vandervalley]

Are u alive????

this means u really misunderstand this verse....

if such was for the Muslims u will never remain alive...

But given the chance; Muslims will skin me alive because I believe in multiple Gods and prophets on dog butts

:angel2:

 

[neves]

I have edited it to include the cite
And present it here as well:
(ibn Hisham, part 4, p. 11; Chronicle of the Tabari, part 2, p. 157; Ibn Kathir, "The Prophetic Biography", part 3, p. 549, Ibn Kathir, "The Beginning and the End"; Ibn Khaldun, the rest of part 2, p. 43 and on; Al-Sira al-Halabiyya, Vol. 3. p. 18; Al-Sohaily, Al Road Al Anf, part 4, p. 90; Dr. Muhammad Sa�id Ramadan al-Buti, "Jurisprudence in Muhammad'�s Biography",7th ed., p.277)

Okay before I post about Abu Sufyan and how he lived after the person who forced him to convert died...

why is there so many Vol and Pages for one single quote...? Is this from one book or what...? Can we just get one Book, one Vol and one Page please...? If it is a chain of sources, please only add the original source...thanks

 

[neves]

But given the chance; Muslims will skin me alive because I believe in multiple Gods and prophets on dog butts

:angel2:

Yeah I always keep my special skinning knife on my person just for occasions like that...

 

[MaddLlama]

MOD POST

Please keep the thread on topic,
and refrain from making rude comments

Thank you
​

 

[niceman20]

ok my christian brothers,
If you really don't believe or accept Islam then we are not forcing you,thats all ! what is the need to twist the main subject? We are not doing all this for ourselves, but for Allah so that he is pleased with us. Islam is rich in knowledge and evidence, there is no room left for force...

 

[JayHawes]

What I can't get twisted around my head is that Muslims nation will not allow Christians to preach the Gospel in their nation (if they do they'll be arrested), but yet and still they'll come to the west and preach the Message of Islam. That's very biast.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Yes I do know who Abu Sufyan was.

Somehow I doubt that. Abu Sufyan was directly and indirectly responsible for the deaths, and torture of many muslims. Many of those muslims were direct relatives of the Prophet (saw) that he had a tight bond with. The atrocities comitted by Abu Sufyan and the rest of the Qurai****e and other muslim persecutors were inumerable Mestemia. This includes but was not limited to the entire muslim population being ostracized in a gorge in the desert. Men, women, children including infants, the elderly, the handicapped, were all placed under a social ban and made to reside in the elements in a gorge. With no food, no water, not allowed to buy nor sell anything, not allowed to come into or be seen in the towns for a period of three years. The first to succumb to the famine and thirst were the infants, who's mothers could not produce milk because of starvation. The muslims who were already sick conditions worsened until they died. Many died of hunger and thirst, because mind you they are in a desert. They were reduced to eating the scant vegetation that grew in that gorge, and whatever they could scavange. Abu Sufyan among others were responsible for that. This is while the Quraish and their helpers were in power.

When Prophet came into power and retook Mecca, he was willing to forgive all those atrocities and never mention them again, if they would accept Islam. That is how he came to say to Abu Sufyan that if he accepts Islam he is safe, but if he does not he will kill him. Rasulullah (saw) was well within his rights to kill them all, but he did not. He knew that there was one thing, and only one thing that would make his persecutors safe from retribution, and that was to accept Islam. So he offered them that recourse.


To put it into perspective for you mestemia, let's say I am directly responsible for the murder and torture of the majority of people that you care dearly for. I do this over a period of many years, because I am in a position of some authority, and there is no recourse for you to stop me. No doubt you will hate me right? Let's say after some time, you come into a position of authority over me, fresh on the heels of all that I have put you through. Would you give me any recourse to be safe from you? Would there be anything I could say or do to make that right with you? Would you befriend me after that? Go broke to help me, go hungry to feed me, never bring up my past atrocities, treat me kindly like a close member of your family? Would you? I don't think so. I think you'd have me punished or killed and you'd be in your rights to do itas well. However, what you have tried to bring up as a stain for Islam and the prophet's character, was really an act of magnanimity from him to a long standing enemy. He didn't just approach Abu Sufyan one day and say, hey you either be muslim of die, like some type of psychopath. If they had have put Abu to death it would have been justified, because he was responsible for so many deaths, he had blood on his hands, but the prophet forgave him and many others too. Can you imagine not forgiving just one enemy, but a whole city of them muslim or not, and prepared to leave it all in the past if only they would promise not to hurt you? How many of us would have done that.

 

[benign6]

What I can't get twisted around my head is that Muslims nation will not allow Christians to preach the Gospel in their nation (if they do they'll be arrested), but yet and still they'll come to the west and preach the Message of Islam. That's very biast.

I myself studied from 1st grade till 10th grade in christian missionary school named "Sacred Heart School" & they have branches in many cities of Pakistan.& it was THE largest school in my city, by area & by student population.

There r other school chains in Pakistan run by christian missionaries like "Lassal High School" they too have many branches over different cities.

So ur concept is wrong.

& Muslim preachers DO NOT go door to door to preach Islam.Not even in Islamic countries. While my relatives living in UK have christian preachers every now & then at their house getting free gifts of bible & some preaching.

 

[rocka21]

I myself studied from 1st grade till 10th grade in christian missionary school named "Sacred Heart School" & they have branches in many cities of Pakistan.& it was THE largest school in my city, by area & by student population.

There r other school chains in Pakistan run by christian missionaries like "Lassal High School" they too have many branches over different cities.

So ur concept is wrong.

& Muslim preachers DO NOT go door to door to preach Islam.Not even in Islamic countries. While my relatives living in UK have christian preachers every now & then at their house getting free gifts of bible & some preaching.

is his concept wrong? you mentioned pakistan... how about

SYRIA AND PALESTINE , iran, iraq, saudi arabia..... just to name a few. what would happen over there?

 

[Pariah]

Pakistan disallows apostates in Islam on punishment of death -

[FONT=arial,helvetica] By Sheraz Khurram Khan
Special Correspondent for ASSIST News Service in Pakistan

ISLAMABAD, PAKISTAN (ANS) -- Pakistan's legislature on Tuesday, May 8, made it unquestionably clear that it has no intention of affording equal protection under the country's blasphemy law to Christians and other religious minorities, and moved forward a bill that mandates the death penalty for conversion away from Islam, ANS has learnt.

Minority MP Bhandara brought to the floor a bill that would have amended Pakistan's infamous “blasphemy” laws. Under the current law, anyone convicted of blaspheming Islam's Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) in word, deed, or symbol, can be sentenced to death, and one found guilty of “insulting Islam,” “desecrating the Qur'an,” and various other offenses, to life in prison, said a Jubilee Campaign, USA news release.
[/FONT]

[FONT=arial,helvetica]
[/FONT]
http://www.assistnews.net/ansarticle.asp?URL=Stories/2007/s07050128.htm

 

[benign6]

Pakistan disallows apostates in Islam on punishment of death -

[FONT=arial,helvetica]
[/FONT]
http://www.assistnews.net/ansarticle.asp?URL=Stories/2007/s07050128.htm

This is about "blasphemy". i talked about preaching . Look up in ur own holy books & tell me what they say about 'blasphemy" againt God & His holy people??? r they any different???

 

[rocka21]

you cannot be killed by our goverment for the words that you say.

GOD BLESS THE USA

 

[Pariah]

i talked about preaching .

Who said I was talking to you?

This is about "blasphemy".

Obviously, your intelligence won't allow for it, but if you read the few lines I posted, you would have realized another line citing laws against apostates from Islam. Blasphemy itself doesn't lend itself to any version of religion the Muslims on this forum would defend (well, maybe).

Look up in ur own holy books & tell me what they say about 'blasphemy" againt God & His holy people??? r they any different???

Please tell me what my holy books are in the first place, or are you assuming me a Christian or a Jew (And to assume is to make an a.ss of you and me. But mostly just you)?

Assuming my holy book said something about "'blasphemy" againt God & His holy people", how does this excuse the actions of your God?

 

[nicholashilliard]

you cannot be killed by our goverment for the words that you say.

GOD BLESS THE USA

dont be so ignorant. god bless the usa? ignorance. dont believe false pretenses and lies. do you give up humanitarianism for patriotism? would god really bless the usa? would God bless a murder of the innocents?
would God bless a war based on pride? would God bless a money-hungry government? would God bless our ineffective court system? would god bless the sweatshops we run? God bless America? ahhh ignorance!!! i hate it.