Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Only because after he seized and raped her - he decided he had a fondness for her.
This is obviously not a happy love story. Rape and death.
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Some of the most interesting answers have been OFF TOPIC
- Thread starter savagewind
- Start date
Only because after he seized and raped her - he decided he had a fondness for her.
This is obviously not a happy love story. Rape and death.
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Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
The sentence structure in the Hebrew explicitly shows this is about the rape of Dinah - seized - lay with - forced/raped.
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OK. WOW! You are not Shechem. You do not know when he started to love Dinah. Nice twist. Do you do that will all scripture? Do you know what I'm thinking?* Do you know when I started to love my husband?
*I am thinking a troll thought about people who believe they know what other people are thinking.
I can not imagine any rape ever turned into "tender love" Genesis 34:3 Is it even possible?
Oh ya! There are a lot of people who believe they know what other people are thinking and doing. It's those same people who will say no one can know what THEY are doing.
So someone somewhere throws out an insult. The insulted one responds with somehting like "only a jerk would say such a thing". Now who is insulting who? The first insulter will blame the insulted one for the rest of his days. And it's called Human. :cover: :ignore: :help:
So someone somewhere throws out an insult. The insulted one responds with somehting like "only a jerk would say such a thing". Now who is insulting who? The first insulter will blame the insulted one for the rest of his days. And it's called Human. :cover: :ignore: :help:
I'm just going to put in my two cents. I don't think it is possible for a raper of women to love women. To accuse Shechem of rape and then turn around and say he fell in love with Dinah is not bright imo.
FranklinMichaelV.3
Well-Known Member
I can kinda agree with that.
Usually rape is an issue of lust and power (as we define it now anyways maybe it was different back then?).
So to go from lust and power to love seems to be a stretch...but not impossible.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
LOL! That is what the story says.
Saw her - seized her - had sex with her - next line - decided he had feelings for her!
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Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
That "love" is actually "had feelings for."
Perhaps he thought about what he had done to her - and her new non-virgin status and how her society would treat her.
You have to remember this society had laws that allowed men to rape women, and if found out - then just pay a damaged property price to her father, and she was his woman.
However, in this case the family did not accept.
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Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
You are forgetting that in this society a man could seize and rape a woman as a way of claiming her - she had no choice in the matter. All he had to do then was pay her father a set price and she belonged to him. The woman had no say and had to live with her rapist.
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If the Bible was written in Modern English you would probably be right.
The word forced her means be bowed down.
Here it is in English - When Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, the ruler of that area, saw her, he took her and raped her.
Simple
Replace raped with bowed down He took her and lay down with [being] bowed down.
The Bible is not simple.
It means he gave in to his desire. The same word is used only at the rape of Tamar. That one was surely a rape, although even Tamar was willing to give herself later in due time (albeit reluctantly). It was rape because she tried to talk him out of it.
Dinah might have been raped too BUT WE DO NOT KNOW, do we?
It is because Shechem was willing to be circumcised for her that I can't believe it was a typical rape.
The word rape carries the meaning = I don't care about you
Amon did not care about Tamar. It is obvious from what is written.
Nothing about the account of Shechem laying with Dinah proves he did not care. Later when he decided to command his people to get circumcised, that was presumptuous and careless imo. He wasn't considering her feelings then, but what men do consider their wives' feelings attached to politics?
Are all men rapists?
Rape = force
To be bowed down = the opposite of force
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Why?
He saw a girl he was attracted to, seized her, had sex with her, then decided he liked her, and asked his father to barter for her. After the fact.
Look at
Deu 22:24 & 29 cry out
Jug 19:24 rape Eze 22:11
Even Josephus tells us it was rape.
The Antiquities of the Jews, Book 1 CHAPTER 21. Concerning The Violation Of Dina's Chastity.
But when Shechem, the son of Hamor the king, saw her, he defiled her by violence; and being greatly in love with her, desired of his father that he would procure the damsel to him for a wife.
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FranklinMichaelV.3
Well-Known Member
In the context of how we define rape today it doesn't seem possible, though that's if you stick with the romanticized idea of love.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Actually it happens a lot today.
Weirdos today kidnap and rape people they "love" all the time.
The man that killed the mother and brother, then took the teenage girl into the woods the other day being an example.
Remember that they actually had laws that said after raping a woman, the rapist could pay the father a sum of money, and the woman had to live with her rapist for the rest of her life.
Read the rape at Shiloh story. Marriage by KIDNAPPING and RAPE.
Jdg 21:20 Therefore they commanded the children of Benjamin, saying, Go and lie in wait in the vineyards;
Jdg 21:21 And see, and, behold, if the daughters of Shiloh come out to dance in dances, then come ye out of the vineyards, and catch you every man his woman of the daughters of Shiloh, and go to the land of Benjamin.
Synopsis: the men were stupid - warred - genocide of most of one of the tribes - felt bad after - not enough women left alive to mate with - but they had sworn to God not to allow their daughters to marry them - so - they hatch a plan to kidnap and rape the dancers at Shiloh. New broodmares to continue the tribal-line by kidnapping and rape.
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I am going to tell you what I hate. It might be on my top ten hated things. When people say something that means something but they do not use the same words someone else does for the same thing, they say they didn't say that just because the words are different and not EXACTLY the same. I hate that.
I do know who to promote, I do. (from What do you do....) But there exists no agreement who Yehoshua is, is there?
That was fun!
I presume to worship The God of Abraham and so I listen and learn from His Son Yehoshua. His name means YHVH is salvation. I believe that. I always have believed it. The Jehovah's Witnesses gave it words for me and for that I am grateful. Now they say I am an apostate. That means they are telling people I do not worship The God of Abraham anymore. They seem to know that it is true that I don't but for the life of me I cannot see how they are able to know that. How do they know I don't? And why for heaven's sake do they announce it to the world? What is the purpose of calling someone who leaves them an apostate?
It is not even clear in scripture who is for heaven, those leaving or those staying.
they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. Matthew 24:39-41
It is not even clear in scripture who is for heaven, those leaving or those staying.
they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. Matthew 24:39-41