Some questions about evolution.

[rusra02]

Evolution is proven. If you've studied it and still don't accept it, then that's an issue of denial, and no logical argument can reach you in there.

Repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it true. Evolution is not proven...

 

[rusra02]

To borrow from Autodidact...."Not the who but the How"....

Explain to me the "Hows" of creation. Saying "God did it" til you're blue in the face doesn't help. Explain to me, scientifically, how all was created....Until you can do this your hypothesis will continue to fall short of the accepted theory.

First, explain to me how life began...

 

[rusra02]

Ben Stein's movie was a farce which presented imaginary stories of persecution to support a preconceived notion that opponents to ToE are being repressed. Funny, but I don't see anyone shutting down the Discovery Institute or the Biologic Institute. Anyone who's interested in exploring creationism is free to do so.

I encourage anyone interested in the truth to see the movie Expelled for themselves. (It's on Youtube). I would expect the ToE phalanx to try to discredit this documentary. After all, it exposes their nefarious and unscientific inquisition upon any scientist,educator, or journalist with enough honesty to raise questions exposing the fraud of evolution being perpetrated upon young and old.

 

[rusra02]

Viscacha rats?! Don't let them hear you talking like that, PW.
They think they're God's chosen race -- of chinchillas.

Rusra, I have to echo PW's admonition about "blind chance." Natural selection is, well, selection -- not chance. It's selective breeding just as surely as that which produced Rhode island reds or Guernsey cows.

Of course, ToE advocates look at the size of a finch's beak or the color of a chicken and declare each a new species. That is nonsense. Genetics allows for great variation within species, including humans. A pygmy is not a new species of humans. A guernsey is still a cow and a Rhode Island red is still a chicken. ToE claims all creatures descended from a single ancestor. As mentioned, the fossil record indicates life arose suddenly and fully developed. I believe the evidence.

 

[rusra02]

That, unfortunately, is just a plain lie. If you bothered to look at biological findings and research you would know that.

Of course, I could say the ToE is a plain lie, and I do.

 

[rusra02]

So what really happened to Wolf-Ekkehard Lönnig other than the following?

Access : Axeing of website article sparks row at Max Planck : Nature
The Max Planck Institute for Plant Breeding Research in Cologne has removed the detailed description of 'intelligent design' from its website, following complaints from scientists that it was inconsistent with the laboratory's scientific mission.The article, which was posted by Wolf-Ekkehard Lönnig, a theorist at the institute, discusses the idea that an intelligent force must be responsible for the origin of the Universe and for the diversity of life forms.

His idea is inconsistent with company policy. Now just imagine you at your job does something against company policy....

People in Russia were sent to Gulags for expressing thoughts that were against [company] policy. Whenever a courageous person challenges the ToE, the scientific priesthood circles the wagons and starts shooting... and their followers applaud their unscientific and repressive bias.

 

[jarofthoughts]

I encourage anyone interested in the truth to see the movie Expelled for themselves. (It's on Youtube).

Oh, I have.
Rarely have I seen so many fallacies, inaccuracies and lies in one place.
Man, that's 90 minutes of my life I'll never get back...

 

[jarofthoughts]

First, explain to me how life began...

Still mixing up Abiogenesis with The Theory of Evolution?
Well, I guess education is not for everyone...

 

[jarofthoughts]

People in Russia were sent to Gulags for expressing thoughts that were against [company] policy. Whenever a courageous person challenges the ToE, the scientific priesthood circles the wagons and starts shooting... and their followers applaud their unscientific and repressive bias.

At this point, I'm almost willing to accept that you are a POE...

 

[rusra02]

Oh, I have.
Rarely have I seen so many fallacies, inaccuracies and lies in one place.
Man, that's 90 minutes of my life I'll never get back...

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But I saw it too, and disagree with you.
I would expect the ToE advocates to speak against such a revealing expose of their outrageous behavior and fraud.
Rather than accept your opinion or my opinion, an honest person will investigate for themselves.

 

[McBell]

I would expect the ToE advocates to speak against such a revealing expose of their outrageous behavior and fraud.

Are you talking about the movie "Expelled"?
The one with Ben Stein?
The one that has been shown to be nothing but one flat out lie after another?

And you think that that movie is a good example of what, exactly?

 

[Alceste]

Are you talking about the movie "Expelled"?
The one with Ben Stein?
The one that has been shown to be nothing but one flat out lie after another?

And you think that that movie is a good example of what, exactly?

How to win an argument, apparently.

 

[Photonic]

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But I saw it too, and disagree with you.
I would expect the ToE advocates to speak against such a revealing expose of their outrageous behavior and fraud.
Rather than accept your opinion or my opinion, an honest person will investigate for themselves.

That movie was proven to be fraudulent and strife with physical, outright lies and misinformation. Not to mentioned he lied and misled interviewees and edited their responses to say what he wanted.

I would have hoped people who watched that movie would go out and do the research themselves instead of being blind sheep but I guess that's just what happens when your religion tells you to follow blindly.

 

[rusra02]

Are you talking about the movie "Expelled"?
The one with Ben Stein?
The one that has been shown to be nothing but one flat out lie after another?

And you think that that movie is a good example of what, exactly?

See my previous post about ToE advocates circling the wagon and opening fire on anyone courageous enough to publicly expose their bad behavior.

 

[Photonic]

See my previous post about ToE advocates circling the wagon and opening fire on anyone courageous enough to publicly expose their bad behavior.

You won't say the same about Hitlers propaganda and the people who decried that. This is no different. We are preventing ignorance from being taught to the future of humanity.

 

[Alceste]

See my previous post about ToE advocates circling the wagon and opening fire on anyone courageous enough to publicly expose their bad behavior.

Rusra, none of the stuff in the film actually happened. Every story in it has been discredited by multiple first-hand sources. Only people who, like you, already believe evolution is a massive atheist conspiracy is going to think those stories are true.

 

[Matthew78]

Repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it true. Evolution is not proven...

Rusra02,

I'm curious-do you believe that evolution is a deliberate lie? Do you believe that it's a lie concocted by professional scientists who really know better but knowingly lie for whatever reason they choose to do so?

I'm an evolutionist. I think that no theory or hypothesis, no matter how popular, should be shielded from challenge. If people think there are serious scientific shortcomings or even fatal flaws in the ToE, I think people should voice them. I'm not opposed to seeing evolution challenged. In my judgment, some of the best scientific theories in the past have risen from people willing to challenge the prevalent paradigm.

What may come as a sad surprise to some Christians is that I used to be a creationist. I started off as a YEC, then became an OEC, then a theistic evolutionlist. I was a theistic evolutionist at the time that I came to conclude that biblical inerrancy was nonsense and, with it, went my belief that Christianity is true. I have some familiarity with creationist arguments ranging from the works of Henry Morris and Duane Gish to that of Hugh Ross.

It was after I became an evolutionist that I realized that I had seriously misunderstood the arguments for evolution. I read books written by scientists who are evolutionists and I came to realize that the creationist arguments were, indeed, flawed. To give an example, I realized how the nested hierarchy of life makes perfect sense as a consequence of evolution and how miserably creationism failed. I read Niles Eldredge's book The Triumph of Evolution and I nearly slapped my forehead, wondering why this argument never dawned on me before.

I cannot agree that evolution is some made-up, deliberate lie. Maybe it's incomplete. It could be possible that evolution didn't happen by purely natural means and that maybe life could be intelligently designed in the sense that evolutionary change is programmed in a sense, whether directly or not. I don't think that evolution is likely to be overturned by another hypothesis. I lean strongly towards evolution being naturalistic but I don't rule out the possibility of some kind of intelligent design. And I believe it's possible that if life was, in any sense, designed, it could be by a divine being; I don't rule this out.

 

[Matthew78]

Of course, I could say the ToE is a plain lie, and I do.

As for people like myself who accept that evolution is a fact, do you believe that folks like myself are dishonest or just sadly fooled? I hope you conclude that I have been very badly fooled.

 

[Valjean]

First, explain to me how life began...

We don't know yet. Google abiogenisis or origin of life for various hypotheses and the evidence supporting them.
However, as you know, this has nothing to do with changes occurring in existing organisms which, as you also must know by now, is what the ToE actually deals with.

Of course, ToE advocates look at the size of a finch's beak or the color of a chicken and declare each a new species. That is nonsense. Genetics allows for great variation within species, including humans. A pygmy is not a new species of humans. A guernsey is still a cow and a Rhode Island red is still a chicken. ToE claims all creatures descended from a single ancestor. As mentioned, the fossil record indicates life arose suddenly and fully developed. I believe the evidence.

Have you never had elementary arithmetic, Rusra? Lots of small changes add up to big changes. You seem to acknowledge the small changes. How do these know when to stop to avoid becoming a big change/new species?

 

[jarofthoughts]

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But I saw it too, and disagree with you.

You seem to miss the point continually.
This really has nothing to do with opinion at all.
The evidence is clear and easily accessible.
'Expelled' is a bunch of hogwash, and that is fact, not opinion.

I would expect the ToE advocates to speak against such a revealing expose of their outrageous behavior and fraud.

And I would expect Creationists to lie, mislead and otherwise be dishonest because that is the only way they can hope to fool people into thinking they have a case of some sort.

Rather than accept your opinion or my opinion, an honest person will investigate for themselves.

Which I have, and you have not.