PureX
Veteran Member
If you were "convinced", you wouldn't need to hope, anymore.
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Some theists and atheists, not so different after all
- Thread starter Starlight
- Start date
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
Many theists and atheists do not know for certain if God exist or not. Belief in is not = i know for certain
Exactly. It would require belief, then.
PureX
Veteran Member
They are not mutually exclusive so long as knowledge and belief aren't being conflated. Unfortunately, they often are being conflated by some theists, and some atheists.
Being convinced doesn't necessarily mean that one knows something without a shadow of a doubt. It can also mean that one suspects something is a certain way.
I am pretty convinced that if I were to try ice skating for the first time, I would fall on my butt. It may not happen, though I just suspect it might.
PureX
Veteran Member
I would say that the vast majority of theists hope their God exists, as opposed to presuming to know it to be so.
Sure: despite what theists tend to make of it, theism is pretty irrelevant to the vast majority of human existence.
Theists and atheists are more alike than they are different.
PureX
Veteran Member
I would say that the vast majority of theists hope their God exists, as opposed to presuming to know it to be so. Acting on this hope (faith is hope through action) does not mean one presumes to know that it's so. Even though they may talk and act like that. This causes a lot of confusion for outsiders, I think.
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
To know God exist = to know for certain
To believe God exist = to hope something is real + to know something (but not knowing it 100%, or that you can not be certain)
By the way, you are right that some atheists and theists think they know that God exists or does not exist. But it is not these atheists and theists that this thread is about
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Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
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That's a pretty bold statement, considering we don't know what people's thoughts on the subject were 300k years ago. What we know of recorded history, and even pre-history, is that god/supernatural beliefs shaped cultures in a very massive way...
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
You are wrong. 84% of the humans in this world is theists
Yes they are more alike than different
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
Yes thats true.
Then they are not atheists. Or at least not rational ones. It is totally irrational to hope for what you don't even believe.
Yes, but belief also requires being convinced, which I addressed here. Being convinced doesn't mean sure knowledge.
McBell
Unbound
How does this address what was actually said?
He is talking about all of human existence and you are talking about now....
Not only that, but he is talking about relevance to human existence and you are merely presenting the number of theists...
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
Many theists is not convicted God exist. They only hope God exist.
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
Belief in God is something people have believed at all times
Dave Watchman
Active Member
They ALL believe that God exists, but they are in denial because they do not WANT God to exist.
I thought I solved this yesterday when I posted the William Sanford Nye video.
Watch his eyes and listen carefully to what he says:
The LAST thing that he wants is to: "have a Super Entity that's going to tell me, or us what to do".
Look man, read this Script:
"The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk, nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.
Even after experiencing hard evidence, these people still do not want to "have a Super Entity that's going to tell me, or us what to do"
And this one:
"And they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores; and they did not repent of their deeds.
People want to do what they want to do.
They don't want to repent of their deeds.
Even when they see blood and fire and columns of smoke.
And even as the Lord said whosoever shall call out on His Name shall be saved, they would rather take the gate that leads to destruction.
"Let the wicked man forsake his own way and the unrighteous man his own thoughts;
let him return to the LORD, that He may have compassion, and to our God, for He will freely pardon.
let him return to the LORD, that He may have compassion, and to our God, for He will freely pardon.
.
McBell
Unbound
And?
What does that have to do with the relevance to human existence?