Some theists and atheists, not so different after all

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That's a pretty bold statement, considering we don't know what people's thoughts on the subject were 300k years ago. What we know of recorded history, and even pre-history, is that god/supernatural beliefs shaped cultures in a very massive way...

Bold but true, and I'm talking mainly about theists today:

They say that they rely on God, but they still get an airliner ready to fly using a pre-flight check instead of prayer.

They say that they expect God to meet their needs, but they still save for retirement.

They say that they look forward to eternal life in Heaven that's better than life on Earth, but still try to avoid death with medical intervention.

99% of the time, theists behave like atheists. Their belief in god(s) doesn't seem to inform their actions very much at all.

 

[SigurdReginson]

Many theists is not convicted God exist. They only hope God exist.

I'd have a hard time describing them as theists, then. Under those guidelines, anyone who hopes a god exists would automatically be considered a theist.

That's not an accurate way to define theism, I find...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You are wrong. 84% of the humans in this world is theists

I'm not saying that this is false; I'm saying that it's true but it doesn't seem to matter very much.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Hope and belief aren't interchangeable words. Belief is about an acceptance of things. Even if I found the idea of god(s) or heaven(s) appealing (I don't, I think both notions are short sighted) I don't believe wanting them to exist makes them more likely to exist. I would still accept that I don't think it exists, regardless of whether I know for sure.

 

[PureX]

You wrote: This causes a lot of confusion for outsiders, I think

In what way?

Outsiders ( and even many insiders) take the talk as fact: as a presumed knowing, when really it's just faith: acting on hope. From the outside, they look very much the same: like a 'blind pretense'.

 

[viole]

Some theists and atheists, is not so different.

Definition of the word "to believe":

Belief in is not = i know for certain

Belief in is = to hope something is real and to know something (but not knowing it 100%, or that you can not be certain)

Most theists believe in God. They do not know God exist. They only believe God exist.

And some atheists do hope God exist. Whats the difference between believe and hope? Not much after all. Some theists only hope God exist.

It does not follow that believing is hoping. therefore, the rest of the arguments is based on a false premise.

For instance, I believe I will not win the lottery, but that does not entail that I hope I will not win the lottery.

ciao

- viole

 

[ChristineM]

You are wrong. Some atheists do hope God exist.

I have never met any... Ever.

So do you have a reference or something to verify your claim?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

explain please

You wrote ...

Whats the difference between believe and hope? Not much after all.

I believe that COVID-19 kills. Do you? And what is your hope? Is there truly not much of a difference after all?

 

[Quintessence]

It is totally irrational to hope for what you don't even believe.

Careful. You might want to think this statement through a little bit more by applying it to other examples. Seems to me humans do this sort of thing routinely (it's the foundation of any flavor idealism, for instance) and it doesn't seem accurate to characterize that as "totally irrational" when attitudes held or goals strived for have meaning or impact.

 

[Nakosis]

Some theists and atheists, is not so different.

Definition of the word "to believe":

Belief in is not = i know for certain

Belief in is = to hope something is real and to know something (but not knowing it 100%, or that you can not be certain)

Most theists believe in God. They do not know God exist. They only believe God exist.

And some atheists do hope God exist. Whats the difference between believe and hope? Not much after all. Some theists only hope God exist.

Other then feeling obligated to follow some religion, probably not. We all got to pay taxes and bills and feed our self/families.
No reason to let some God come between us.

 

[Polymath257]

Some theists and atheists, is not so different.

Definition of the word "to believe":

Belief in is not = i know for certain

Belief in is = to hope something is real and to know something (but not knowing it 100%, or that you can not be certain)

Most theists believe in God. They do not know God exist. They only believe God exist.

And some atheists do hope God exist. Whats the difference between believe and hope? Not much after all. Some theists only hope God exist.

This seems like a strange definition of 'believe'. When I say I believe something, I mean that I think it has a high probability of being true.

it does NOT mean that I hope for it to be true. It does not mean that I know it to be true. It means that I think it is very likely to be true.

When I *hope* something is true, I say that I hope it to be true. That can happen whether or not I *believe* it to be true.

For example, I can *hope* that someone will act like a mature adult in a given situation, even though I *believe* that they will not. But, I can be pleasantly surprised.

So, yes, I see a *big* difference between 'belief' and 'hope'.

 

[Polymath257]

How would that work, given that atheism is a lack of belief in god in the first place?

You can hope something to be true, but still think it is unlikely to be true.

 

[Polymath257]

Many theists and atheists do not know for certain if God exist or not. Belief in is not = i know for certain

No, it is 'I think it very likely'.

Thinking something is likely is very different than hoping it is true. And both of those are different than *knowing* it to be true.

An atheist doesn't have a belief in God. That means that they do not think it is likely that God exists (whatever definition is used).

A theist has a belief in God. That means they think it is likely that God exists.

It is possible to hope that a God exists, but not believe it to be true. In that case, you are hoping for something you see to be unlikely, but desirable.

It is possible to believe God exists but *hope* you are wrong: in which case you think it likely that God exists, but find it to be an undesirable thing.

Me? I think it is unlikely that a God exists, but I don't particularly hope one way or the other: I see the existence of God as irrelevant to my life.

 

[SomeRandom]

You can hope something to be true, but still think it is unlikely to be true.

I suppose.

 

[Clara Tea]

Lets hope that there is no difference between hope and belief, no matter what we believe. Doctor Who said "one good hope is worth a cartload of certainties."

 

[Sandra Jayne]

Some theists and atheists, is not so different.

Definition of the word "to believe":

Belief in is not = i know for certain

Belief in is = to hope something is real and to know something (but not knowing it 100%, or that you can not be certain)

Most theists believe in God. They do not know God exist. They only believe God exist.

And some atheists do hope God exist. Whats the difference between believe and hope? Not much after all. Some theists only hope God exist.

A theist might argue they have faith God does exist and there people who have no doubt God exists although there are many who say they believe they go straight to God when they die and yet will undergo the most awful medical treatments to have a few more months of life. You figure!