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Someone in the US Dies every 12 minutes from Lack of Health Care

kai

kai

ragamuffin
Thats amazing , how come theres no outcry? imagine losing that many troops in a theatre of war there would be hell to pay.are these people kind of forgotten?
 
Sunstone

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
kai said:
Thats amazing , how come theres no outcry? imagine losing that many troops in a theatre of war there would be hell to pay.are these people kind of forgotten?
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Good points! I suspect the fact the Health Care Industry is spending 1 million dollars a day to propagandize us and lobby against reform has something to do with why there is not a stronger outcry against the current system.
 
T-Dawg

T-Dawg

Self-appointed Lunatic
In other news, those who are insured, are dieing....Canadian patients' risk for dying was 17 per cent higher compared to U.S. patients....
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It's propaganda, I saw the trick immediately as I read that line ;):
The key word is patients. They probably didn't include those who don't care get care at all - and that number is pretty high in the US.


EDIT: Also, those statistics only apply to heart attack deaths, according to the article itself.
 
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idea

idea

Question Everything
TheAmazingLoser said:
It's propaganda, I saw the trick immediately as I read that line ;):
The key word is patients. They probably didn't include those who don't care get care at all - and that number is pretty high in the US.
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have you ever been in an ER room? There is a big sign on the door stating that everyone who walks through that door will be treated, insurance or no insurance. The system already treats everyone who needs it.

People get treated. the prob is not getting treatment, it is about who pays for it.

If they decided not to go to the hospital, it is not the fault of the hospital for not treating them - it their own fault for refusing to get treatment.
 
Storm

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
idea said:
have you ever been in an ER room? There is a big sign on the door stating that everyone who walks through that door will be treated, insurance or no insurance. The system already treats everyone who needs it.
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Unless, of course, their problem is a chronic one.
 
idea

idea

Question Everything
Google: Federal Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA or the "Act").

Hospitals have to treat people, chronic or not. If they need help - hospitals must provide that help.
 
Smoke

Smoke

Done here.
idea said:
have you ever been in an ER room? There is a big sign on the door stating that everyone who walks through that door will be treated, insurance or no insurance. The system already treats everyone who needs it.
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But not everyone gets good treatment. In fact, the overuse of emergency rooms as general practice clinics for the uninsured means it's hard to get good ER treatment even if you have insurance.

Try getting your cancer treated in the ER. Don't expect the best the hospital has to offer.
 
F

freethinker44

Well-Known Member
idea said:
have you ever been in an ER room? There is a big sign on the door stating that everyone who walks through that door will be treated, insurance or no insurance. The system already treats everyone who needs it.

People get treated. the prob is not getting treatment, it is about who pays for it.

If they decided not to go to the hospital, it is not the fault of the hospital for not treating them - it their own fault for refusing to get treatment.
Click to expand...




How many people do you suppose sit at home and deal with the pain until they die from some chronic illness not discovered because they didn't want to bankrupt their family or have to mortgage their house because they don't have health care.


You are right though, it isn't the fault of the hospital, it is the insurance companies. The system is set up so that it is more profitable for an insurance company to let someone die than it is to pay for the treatment, that is pretty much a license to kill.
 
Smoke

Smoke

Done here.
idea said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(United_States)
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In general, individuals are eligible for Medicare if:

  • They are 65 years or older and U.S. citizens or have been permanent legal residents for 5 continuous years, and they or their spouse has paid Medicare taxes for at least 10 years.
or
  • They are under 65, disabled, and have been receiving either Social Security benefits or the Railroad Retirement Board disability benefits for at least 24 months from date of entitlement (first disability payment).
or
or
The 24 month exclusion means that people who become disabled must wait 2 years before receiving government medical insurance, unless they have one of the listed diseases or they are eligible for Medicaid.
​
idea said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(United_StatesMedicaid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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It is estimated that approximately 60 percent of poor Americans are not covered by Medicaid.​
idea said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(United_StatesIf you make enough money, obviously you should pay your own medical costs. If you are poor - medcaid / medicare. If you are not a citizen, EMTALA.
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From the Wikipedia article on EMTALA:
The cost of emergency care required by EMTALA is not directly covered by the federal government. Because of this, the law has been criticized by some as an unfunded mandate.[4] Similarly, it has attracted controversy for its impacts on hospitals, and in particular, for its possible contributions to an emergency medical system that is "overburdened, underfunded and highly fragmented".[5] More than half of all emergency room care in the U.S. now goes uncompensated. Hospitals write off such care as charity or bad debt for tax purposes. Increasing financial pressures on hospitals in the period since EMTALA's passage have caused consolidations and closures, so the number of emergency rooms is decreasing despite increasing demand for emergency care.[6] There is also debate about the extent to which EMTALA has led to cost-shifting and higher rates for insured or paying hospital patients, thereby contributing to the high overall rate of medical inflation in the U.S.
​
 
idea

idea

Question Everything
from:
Medical Care USA and Canada

in Canada:
"Rationing services is the method of controlling escalating costs."

"As it currently stands, the only effective means Canadians have to influence the quality or quantity of their health care is to lobby politicians."


The US has issues for sure (as outlined in the above article), I think the solution lies in:
- limiting the $ on malpractice suits
- publishing stats on docs - how many malprac suits they get
- rewarding people for taking care of themselves (allowing insurance companies to charge smaller rates to those who don't smoke, who are not overweight, are preventing all the preventable stuff)
- decrease paperwork/red tape for medicaid/medicare
- open clinics for non emergency use by those who have no insurance (ER rooms currently full of people who do not need emergency care but have no where else to go)
- produce more doctors/nurses - pay med school bills

let's see... what else...

Oh - the "pill" companies are way out of bounds. Americans are like #1 in taking meds. We need to eat right, talk to a councilor, exercise, not pop a pill. Pills should be last resorts.
- more pharmaceutical companies
- increase competition,
- reward people for seeking alternative treatments...

one example pill vs. no pill:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy
The rest of the world uses CBT, US does not...
http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?page_id=389
 
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idea

idea

Question Everything
freethinker44 said:
You are right though, it isn't the fault of the hospital, it is the insurance companies. The system is set up so that it is more profitable for an insurance company to let someone die than it is to pay for the treatment, that is pretty much a license to kill.
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I could be wrong, but I think to insure a home in Texas, the insurance comanies are forced to insure, at the same rate, homes in Galviston. If they refuse to insure the coast, they get no business from anyone. Everyone pays slightly higher rates for the coast, everyone gets reasonable coverage. Perhaps we could do the same with health care.

I don't agree with nationalized health care. Perhaps we could just make a law that insurance companes are not allowed any medical information on who they insure? They have to accept anyone without knowing their conditions, cover everyone the same. Insurance can then just take averages, charge everyone the same rate... I guess docs might take advantage of this, we already have the highest c-section rate, docs forcing proceedures on patients who don't need the proceedures in order for the docs to make more money... someone has to be there to put the docs in check, but it should not be the insurance comps. With the internet, patients can inform themselves on what they need? it is a mess.

Perhaps those who bring their probs on themselves (by overeating, smoking, drug abuse, etc. etc. should have to pay... but if it is not a medical condition that is preventable, then the insurance should not get their medical records)?
 
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shortfade2

shortfade2

Active Member
OK! I have had enough of WIKIPEDIA!! I can go change all of those facts SO easily right now. PLEASE COME UP WITH DIFFERANT SCOURCES@@$)&*@#(*&*(&#@()& I know they are out there!!....this has nothing to do with the legitimacy of anybodys claims, I am just sick of seeing it, Peace out :)
 
Smoke

Smoke

Done here.
shortfade2 said:
OK! I have had enough of WIKIPEDIA!! I can go change all of those facts SO easily right now. PLEASE COME UP WITH DIFFERANT SCOURCES@@$)&*@#(*&*(&#@()& I know they are out there!!....this has nothing to do with the legitimacy of anybodys claims, I am just sick of seeing it, Peace out :)
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It doesn't do any good to have health insurance if you don't take your medication.
 
rojse

rojse

RF Addict
Sunstone said:
According to a Harvard Medical School study, about 45,000 people die each year in the US from lack of adequate health care. That's roughly one person every 12 minutes.

Harvard Medical Study Links Lack of Insurance to 45,000 U.S. Deaths a Year - Prescriptions Blog - NYTimes.com

No health coverage tied to 45,000 deaths a year - Health care- msnbc.com

Is this acceptable? Why or why not?
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Yes, because they're poor people. Or that's what some people on here keep telling me.
 
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