SOTU, so what?

[metis]

That's why I call them illegal immigrants or illegal aliens. And I am only concerned with those people. The ones who are here ILLEGALLY.

There are both national and international statutes dealing with the right of "illegals" seeking asylum. The joint bill put forth by the Senate largely addressed them-- that's until Trump denounced it and said that it would give Biden credit and make Biden look good. That says a ton, right?

 

[Kathryn]

There are both national and international statutes dealing with the right of "illegals" seeking asylum. The joint bill put forth by the Senate largely addressed them-- that's until Trump denounced it and said that it would give Biden credit and make Biden look good. That says a ton, right?

Maybe, who knows. All I know is that we need to know who is in our country and why and for how long. We need to know their criminal record, FROM THE COUNTRY THEY ARE COMING FROM. The majority of those seeking asylum by the way cannot or do not prove their need for asylum.

 

[Subduction Zone]

We need to know who is in our country and why. Period. Other countries know, we need to know too.

That is an unrelated claim. You were using a very poor argument and you should acknowledge it.

 

[Kathryn]

That is an unrelated claim. You were using a very poor argument and you should acknowledge it.

Nope, I wasn't using a very poor argument - I just didn't agree with you. Hate me or not, I don't care.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Nope, I wasn't using a very poor argument - I just didn't agree with you. Hate me or not, I don't care.

If you cannot see your error after it was laid out for you then there may be no help available. Once again, you cannot claim that migrants do all sorts of terrible crimes when they do those crimes at a lower rate than citizens do. If you kicked out all of the immigrants the overall crime rate would go up.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

If you cannot see your error after it was laid out for you then there may be no help available. Once again, you cannot claim that migrants do all sorts of terrible crimes when they do those crimes at a lower rate than citizens do. If you kicked out all of the immigrants the overall crime rate would go up.

But the number of crimes would go down. Isn't that what we want?

 

[Subduction Zone]

But the number of crimes would go down. Isn't that what we want?

No, we want the crime rate to go down. This shows an inability to do basic math.

Tell me, do you want your odds of being harmed to go up or down?

 

[Kathryn]

If you cannot see your error after it was laid out for you then there may be no help available. Once again, you cannot claim that migrants do all sorts of terrible crimes when they do those crimes at a lower rate than citizens do. If you kicked out all of the immigrants the overall crime rate would go up.

And you are still insisting on lumping all "immigrants" together. You're right in one sense, there's no help available and I am outta here.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

No, we want the crime rate to go down. This shows an inability to do basic math.

Tell me, do you want your odds of being harmed to go up or down?

Why insult me? You seem to be saying that if illegal migrants are not here then more crimes would occur? So legal residents would start committing more crimes? The crime rate may go up but the number of crimes would go down.

If you have a group of people of 1000 with a crime rate of 10% there is 100 crimes.
Let's say 200 are illegal and are removed. The new crime rate is 12% so 800*.12 = 96 crimes.

The crime rate goes up but the number of crimes go down. This is what I am saying. I care more about the number of crimes over the crime rate.

 

[Kathryn]

Why insult me? You seem to be saying that if illegal migrants are not here then more crimes would occur? So legal residents would start committing more crimes? The crime rate may go up but the number of crimes would go down.

If you have a group of people of 1000 with a crime rate of 10% there is 100 crimes.
Let's say 200 are illegal and are removed. The new crime rate is 12% so 800*.12 = 96 crimes.

The crime rate goes up but the number of crimes go down. This is what I am saying. I care more about the number of crimes over the crime rate.

Is there any point in trying to reason with him or her? That's my rhetorical question, which I have already answered. LOL

 

[Subduction Zone]

And you are still insisting on lumping all "immigrants" together. You're right in one sense, there's no help available and I am outta here.

No, that was what you kept doing. You kept lumping all refugees with others just because refugees got across the border illegally.

 

[F1fan]

We need to know who is in our country and why. Period. Other countries know, we need to know too.

No one disagrees. But nothing will improve as long as Trump continues to call for republicans to sabotage any efforts.

 

[Kathryn]

No one disagrees. But nothing will improve as long as Trump continues to call for republicans to sabotage any efforts.

Nothing has improved.

 

[Kathryn]

No, that was what you kept doing. You kept lumping all refugees with others just because refugees got across the border illegally.

Nope, I stated repeatedly over and over again, that I was ONLY TALKING ABOUT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. Good grief!

Honestly, sometimes I feel like I am in La La Land.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Why insult me?

There was no insult. You demonstrated that you could not do basic math in your response. A correction is not necessarily an insult.

You seem to be saying that if illegal migrants are not here then more crimes would occur? So legal residents would start committing more crimes? The crime rate may go up but the number of crimes would go down.

No, I said no such thing. Once again you are failing at basic math. Let's use the simplistic math of the anti immigrants. They point to the crimes that some immigrants do and get their panties in a knot over that. Yes, any crime is bad. But you have to look at the big picture.

It can be shown that overall immigrants break the laws less than citizens do. If you get rid of people doing a lower rate of crime you only have the people doing a higher rate of crime left. The crime rate goes up as a result. You have a greater chance of being harmed.

If you have a group of people of 1000 with a crime rate of 10% there is 100 crimes.
Let's say 200 are illegal and are removed. The new crime rate is 12% so 800*.12 = 96 crimes.

Correct. Fewer crimes. But what were your personal odds of being a victim?

In the first case it was one out of ten. Now, and you admitted it yourself, it would be 1.2 out of ten. Your odds of being a victim just went up. Fewer crimes, but a higher personal chance of being a victim.

The crime rate goes up but the number of crimes go down. This is what I am saying. I care more about the number of crimes over the crime rate.

Really? That is so weird. I am much much more in favor of the crime rate going down. You are in favor of a 20% rate bump in the crime rate in your example.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Nothing has improved.

Yes, that is because of the Republicans right now. Do you not realize that? There was a compromise. Heck, the Republicans got practically everything that they wanted. Trump did not want Biden to get credit for solving a problem that arose on his watch.

 

[Kathryn]

Yes, that is because of the Republicans right now. Do you not realize that? There was a compromise. Heck, the Republicans got practically everything that they wanted. Trump did not want Biden to get credit for solving a problem that arose on his watch.

It arose on whose watch?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

There was no insult. You demonstrated that you could not do basic math in your response. A correction is not necessarily an insult.

I demonstrated corect math, see below. You just did not understand it I guess.

No, I said no such thing. Once again you are failing at basic math. Let's use the simplistic math of the anti immigrants. They point to the crimes that some immigrants do and get their panties in a knot over that. Yes, any crime is bad. But you have to look at the big picture.

It can be shown that overall immigrants break the laws less than citizens do. If you get rid of people doing a lower rate of crime you only have the people doing a higher rate of crime left. The crime rate goes up as a result. You have a greater chance of being harmed.


Correct. Fewer crimes. But what were your personal odds of being a victim?

In the first case it was one out of ten. Now, and you admitted it yourself, it would be 1.2 out of ten. Your odds of being a victim just went up. Fewer crimes, but a higher personal chance of being a victim.

Really? That is so weird. I am much much more in favor of the crime rate going down. You are in favor of a 20% rate bump in the crime rate in your example.

??? So what about the rate. By your logic you would want to flood the country with illegal migrants so the crime rate goes lower but you would be inviting more crime incidents. And that is ok with you. Wow. You are advocating for more crime, not less, whether you know it or not.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Is there any point in trying to reason with him or her? That's my rhetorical question, which I have already answered. LOL

I am not sure. But they are dug in so I doubt this person will reconsider what they are actually advocating for, more crime.

 

[Laniakea]

It is too easy. Hype is not evidence. What happened? Did they rape the sheep and carry off the women? . . . Wait, something is wrong there.

They were not even trying to change the government. Worse yet, those are not the sort of border that Trump could have closed. At least in the article that sound like people crossing over illegally wherever they could. His wall is worthless when it comes to smugglers. Kids do this for fun:

They've also gotten themselves killed while being dropped from the top. Not exactly fun.