• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Space Travel Purpose?

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
Or have a lottery. You have to play and win to get the right to have a child.

I used to work as a social worker and met a fair number of parents who were entirely incapable of bringing up children properly. I used to joke that there should be a long and complicated application to fill in before getting permission to have a baby. ;)
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
I used to work as a social worker and met a fair number of parents who were entirely incapable of bringing up children properly. I used to joke that there should be a long and complicated application to fill in before getting permission to have a baby. ;)
Or education and license. Have to get a degree in parenthood. I have kids, and sure do I know that I didn't know how to do it right (if there is even something called right when it comes to raising kids).
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
Or education and license. Have to get a degree in parenthood. I have kids, and sure do I know that I didn't know how to do it right (if there is even something called right when it comes to raising kids).
I think it's been fairly well established that there are some wrong things that some people do...
 

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
I have kids, and sure do I know that I didn't know how to do it right (if there is even something called right when it comes to raising kids).

Sure, it's not like there is an instruction manual. I was talking about parents who are still children themselves, mentally I mean.
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
I think it's been fairly well established that there are some wrong things that some people do...
Absolutely. There are things that a parent should do, and some things that parents shouldn't do, but then there's a lot of things that it's neither right or wrong but still turns up to bit you in the a** later. And... the kids will always blame the parents regardless of how they did.
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
Sure, it's not like there is an instruction manual.
Agree. But there are probably some obvious problems that could be avoided if the to-be parents learn some things first.

I was talking about parents who are still children themselves, mentally I mean.
Of course. Which is probably 99% of all parents... :D

And what makes it even more difficult is the ever and quickly changing culture. Technology, science, requirement for work and success, laws, taxes, and so on, always different. My grandparents were farmers. My dad was an engineer. I'm a computer guy. My children are ... not sure yet what they're becoming. Rocket scientist, AI expert, graphical designer, astronomer, and game masters, maybe?
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
Very cool!
but then, the images show us as basically tourists, thrill-seekers...
Not that that is a bad thing...but for every one of those people shown gawking at the wonders of the solar system, there are going to be literally hundreds who are working, staying at home to make it possible.

Line from the Indigo Girls

"Maybe we'll take a walk on Pluto,
But we'll be no closer to the understanding..."
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Put me in coach, I'm ready!


Good questions! In fact, this is the topic of many panels regard colonizing other planetary bodies. Usually goes something like this: "Look, we goobered our own planet, what is to say we won't do it again?" That is a fair criticism, but here are a few things going in our favor. First, we have learned a lot about what is causing our planet harm that we may not have been aware of before. The whole "fool me twice" thing would be tougher to pull on us. Second, we are assuming the planet/atmospheric make up is similar to what it is here on Earth. We can also toy with the idea that an atmosphere that might be inhabitable will have different traits that make it more... resilient to our waste products. Third, our technology is rapidly expanding, in that I firmly believe that given enough time we can correct environmental issues and allow us to be more sustainable should we get a second go at another planet. There is more, but let's move on.


First, it is worth pointing out that as far as we know the moon has no natural resources that we can readily use. Sure, we can use it as a launching pad, but basic physics tells us that launching from the moon would not be efficient. At all. In fact, the greatest asset to our space travel is not an actual planet or moon, but gravity! We used gravity sling shots to get Voyager into position to get a selfie with Pluto! And it is STILL going! All from an Earth based launch, not too bad, eh? Second, there is a common belief that natural resources in space are as rare as they are here. We do not believe that is the case. When we begin to discuss things like hydrogen, ammonia, and oxygen; even minerals such as iron, gold and aluminum; we have reason to believe that asteroids and other planets will have very large amounts of these things. In short, we could be one asteroid away from having enough aluminum to last us for generations. In short, most elements are really common elsewhere, even if they are rare here. Something to think about.


Now, a key difference is that we, as humans, are self aware of our destructive nature. We have a conscious and a moral responsibility within us to do the right thing. That is not to say that we will do the right thing. But, I have a but more optimism that we will not turn into a galactic virus that destroys everything.


Our primary purpose for space travel right now is self preservation. Eventually, we will not be able to stay here. For better or worse, due to whatever circumstance, we will eventually have to leave or we will perish as a species. So, any data or technological test that can get us one step closer to that, we want. We want it as soon as possible.


I will take this time to say we have no moral obligation to the universe if we become extinct. Right? If we are all dead, we owe nothing to anyone because, well, we are dead. So, from my perspective, I welcome any and all technologies related to space and our ability to become multi-planetary because our survival comes first. Problems faced after we have established ourselves will happen and we will have to overcome those. But let's not put that cart before the horse. :)

Hope this helps.

I like it. Hope I live to see the first human on Mars. Have you been keeping up with the new probe that is supposed to get really close to Jupiter this month? Am I right?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I come from an old religion that has trouble understanding why humans would want to go to our Moon, Mars, The Solar System or travel via interstellar Space? The reason this confuses me are the ethics and philosophical concerns of traveling and possibly colonizing these Heavenly Celestial objects for our own use?

There are some people who view the Earth, Our Moon, and the entire Cosmos as Sacred objects that deserve respect, to be in Awe of their presence, and hopefully to inspire us to open our eyes and be better people by finally understanding the need for connection to our entire Universe we reside in, but sadly whenever I hear of space travel I hear of the moon not as a Sacred object, but as a commodity, to be exploited for it's natural resources, that can be used as a launching pad to venture out to other celestial objects to exploit their natural resources as well.

When I think of human space travel I think of the destructive nature of the locust, and how they destroy a region by over consumption and once that area is destroyed, they travel to another region to deplete that resource as well. I hope that is not the purpose of our space travel to other areas as well. I am in Awe and humbled by the vastness of our Universe and how we are such a small and insignificant dot compared to the Cosmos, I sincerely hope that when we explore Her Sacredness, we find our Humanity and need for connection to the Universe and to each other as well.
Asking "why explore space?" is like asking "why?" for any of the pure sciences.

I heard a quote that stuck with me: "asking 'what's the point of pure science?' is like asking 'what's the point of a baby?'" You may not see the point of it right now, but just wait a few decades: odds are, it'll be helping humanity in some way, even if we can say which specific way that will be right now.

As for colonizing space: humanity isn't going to be in a position to colonize space for the foreseeable future. Look at it this way: having actual colonies on Mars or floating in space is going to be much more difficult and much less profitable than self-supporting settlements on the sea floor or in Antarctica, so until those things start happening on a regular basis, space colonies are a very long way off.

What do have the potential to colonize space are our micro-organisms, but based on what I've heard and read, NASA and other space agencies do a good job of sterilizing spacecraft and equipment that they launch to other planets.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I wonder about it too. It might be better to put all the energy and resources involved in space travel into looking after the planet we have now, rather than viewing it as "temporary accommodation".
They aren't mutually exclusive.

Helium was first discovered by astronomers.

GPS satellites are used by everyone from paramedics to search & rescue teams to families on trips.

Satellite images have revolutionized all sorts of fields from environmental science to archaeology.

By looking at the heavens, we're able to confirm aspects of quantum theory that will help us to build the next generation of computers.

And don't discount the sheer inspiration factor: for instance, I don't work in aerospace - I'm a civil engineer that mainly works on road safety - but watching NASA missions growing up was instrumental in inspiring me to pursue a STEM career. I'm working to prevent car crashes on Earth today at least in part because of Space Shuttle missions in the 80s and my Dad's books about the Apollo program.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Perhaps, but that attitude can be part of the problem. It's rather like the difference between owing a house and renting one, people tend to look after a property better when they own it.
If that attitude is the problem, then religions that preach a Heaven would be a much higher priority than the space program.

... especially since the space program generally has the opposite effect. IMO, it isn't a coincidence that the environmental movement that began in the late 60s and early 70s took off once we started seeing photos of the Earth taken from space. The space program showed us just how tiny, fragile, and precious our planet is.
 
Asking "why explore space?" is like asking "why?" for any of the pure sciences.

I heard a quote that stuck with me: "asking 'what's the point of pure science?' is like asking 'what's the point of a baby?'" You may not see the point of it right now, but just wait a few decades: odds are, it'll be helping humanity in some way, even if we can say which specific way that will be right now.

As for colonizing space: humanity isn't going to be in a position to colonize space for the foreseeable future. Look at it this way: having actual colonies on Mars or floating in space is going to be much more difficult and much less profitable than self-supporting settlements on the sea floor or in Antarctica, so until those things start happening on a regular basis, space colonies are a very long way off.

What do have the potential to colonize space are our micro-organisms, but based on what I've heard and read, NASA and other space agencies do a good job of sterilizing spacecraft and equipment that they launch to other planets.

I'm sorry for not making my point more clear, I am not against space travel or science in any way in fact I use a lot of scientific principles in my religion, but what concerns me about humans is the arrogant attitude they think they can own everything they see.

If you haven't seen the movie Avatar please check it out because I think it addresses my concerns with great symmetry.

In the year 2154 the earth has depleted most of its natural energy resources and found a wonderful energy source referred jokingly by Aero Space Engineers as unobtainium.

This unobtainium resource is rightfully guarded by the Navi Tribe that viewed this resource as a sacred object which is part of the life force of the moon they inhabit. The only thing the humans seen from unobtanium was a fuel source, but it was a sacred element that gave life to the moon the Navi Tribe was from.

In my personal opinion I believe we should be humble space travelers and not dominant conqueror's of our environment, other wise we are going to make the same mistakes our ancestors made by destroying any habitat and resources we come into contact with.

Most indigenous cultures have a sacred bond with the planet and adhere to the framework of maintaining sustainability by being in harmony with the sacred balance needed between humans and nature.

Dominating imperialistic cultures seem to follow the same pattern of reducing a planet's sacredness by thinking of it as a resource to exploit for their own use without regards to the consequences of their actions.

If our main objective is to venture out to space to reach out to the sacred cosmos to learn from its teachings to become better people then sign me up for that wonderful ride of discovery.

If our objective is to dominate and exploit the resources we find, we are doomed and haven't learned one thing from our past!

The final point I would like to make before I depart is that we haven't even addressed the ethical issues we may encounter as our technology increases. What are we going to do if we encounter a primitive alien life as we boldly lay claim to a planet we landed on? Are we going to wipe them out so we can establish a colony? Are we going to have a prime directive like Star Trek to honor all life we may come into contact with and not interfere with their culture? Although I have very Shamanistic beliefs that everything is sacred I hope it is shown I can see a very secular and practical view to space travel, I am just wondering though: what is our purpose for traveling in space?
 
Last edited:

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
I come from an old religion that has trouble understanding why humans would want to go to our Moon, Mars, The Solar System or travel via interstellar Space? The reason this confuses me are the ethics and philosophical concerns of traveling and possibly colonizing these Heavenly Celestial objects for our own use?

There are some people who view the Earth, Our Moon, and the entire Cosmos as Sacred objects that deserve respect, to be in Awe of their presence, and hopefully to inspire us to open our eyes and be better people by finally understanding the need for connection to our entire Universe we reside in, but sadly whenever I hear of space travel I hear of the moon not as a Sacred object, but as a commodity, to be exploited for it's natural resources, that can be used as a launching pad to venture out to other celestial objects to exploit their natural resources as well.

When I think of human space travel I think of the destructive nature of the locust, and how they destroy a region by over consumption and once that area is destroyed, they travel to another region to deplete that resource as well. I hope that is not the purpose of our space travel to other areas as well. I am in Awe and humbled by the vastness of our Universe and how we are such a small and insignificant dot compared to the Cosmos, I sincerely hope that when we explore Her Sacredness, we find our Humanity and need for connection to the Universe and to each other as well.

Since the moon is also insignificant when compared with the rest of the Universe.... Who cares?

Ciao

- viole
 

Spideymon77

A Smiling Empty Soul
Cool stuff like knowledge, exploration, finding extraterrestrial life, exc. The Universe is so vast and beyond we humans are THRILLED to learn new things about space.
 

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
Here is one thing space travel would be useful for:

th
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I come from an old religion that has trouble understanding why humans would want to go to our Moon, Mars, The Solar System or travel via interstellar Space? The reason this confuses me are the ethics and philosophical concerns of traveling and possibly colonizing these Heavenly Celestial objects for our own use?

There are some people who view the Earth, Our Moon, and the entire Cosmos as Sacred objects that deserve respect, to be in Awe of their presence, and hopefully to inspire us to open our eyes and be better people by finally understanding the need for connection to our entire Universe we reside in, but sadly whenever I hear of space travel I hear of the moon not as a Sacred object, but as a commodity, to be exploited for it's natural resources, that can be used as a launching pad to venture out to other celestial objects to exploit their natural resources as well.

When I think of human space travel I think of the destructive nature of the locust, and how they destroy a region by over consumption and once that area is destroyed, they travel to another region to deplete that resource as well. I hope that is not the purpose of our space travel to other areas as well. I am in Awe and humbled by the vastness of our Universe and how we are such a small and insignificant dot compared to the Cosmos, I sincerely hope that when we explore Her Sacredness, we find our Humanity and need for connection to the Universe and to each other as well.
It is *highly unlikely* that humanity will be able to survive for long on other planets, however we have a responsibility to give that which has been given to us. Its not our DNA that needs to spread but our cherished and most honorable qualities. Our bodies are too frail for interstellar travel anyway. The challenge is to pass on life, thought, love, friendship, patience, generosity and all the good things. What we need to do is 1. focus upon improving our own lives here and 2. upon developing artificial life that can take on all the best attributes we have, such as our ability to perceive suffering, beauty, society etc. Then a more sturdy life form than us can go into the wastes and enjoy them like gardens. We should be making artificial life forms that will fill the universe with all the good things that we value, like love, thought, creativity etc.
 
Since the moon is also insignificant when compared with the rest of the Universe.... Who cares?

Ciao

- viole

Part of my religion involves the scientific understanding of the natural forces that are around us. If you take into consideration that you, and I, the Earth, the Moon and the entire Universe at one time fit inside a tiny insignificant dot I sincerely hope you can see the connection we have with one another and how sacred all the elements and life forces of the universe truly are regardless of how small or insignificant they may seem.
 
Top