Space Travel Purpose?

[Ouroboros]

Disgusting. If that's true, I'd say we deserve to die out.

Perhaps, perhaps not. I don't think of it as we deserve to live or deserve to die. We're just a life form as any other. Most life forms are parasitic in a sense. No life just exists on its own without infringing on the life of others. We're just highly advanced in how we can spread throughout and use (abuse) the world.

 

[Quetzal]

What are your sources for that?

The sun is finite. On a long enough timeline, it will go super nova and that will be all she wrote.

 

[jonathan180iq]

I'm sorry for not making my point more clear, I am not against space travel or science in any way in fact I use a lot of scientific principles in my religion, but what concerns me about humans is the arrogant attitude they think they can own everything they see.

If you haven't seen the movie Avatar please check it out because I think it addresses my concerns with great symmetry.

In the year 2154 the earth has depleted most of its natural energy resources and found a wonderful energy source referred jokingly by Aero Space Engineers as unobtainium.

This unobtainium resource is rightfully guarded by the Navi Tribe that viewed this resource as a sacred object which is part of the life force of the moon they inhabit. The only thing the humans seen from unobtanium was a fuel source, but it was a sacred element that gave life to the moon the Navi Tribe was from.

In my personal opinion I believe we should be humble space travelers and not dominant conqueror's of our environment, other wise we are going to make the same mistakes our ancestors made by destroying any habitat and resources we come into contact with.

Most indigenous cultures have a sacred bond with the planet and adhere to the framework of maintaining sustainability by being in harmony with the sacred balance needed between humans and nature.

Dominating imperialistic cultures seem to follow the same pattern of reducing a planet's sacredness by thinking of it as a resource to exploit for their own use without regards to the consequences of their actions.

If our main objective is to venture out to space to reach out to the sacred cosmos to learn from its teachings to become better people then sign me up for that wonderful ride of discovery.

If our objective is to dominate and exploit the resources we find, we are doomed and haven't learned one thing from our past!

The final point I would like to make before I depart is that we haven't even addressed the ethical issues we may encounter as our technology increases. What are we going to do if we encounter a primitive alien life as we boldly lay claim to a planet we landed on? Are we going to wipe them out so we can establish a colony? Are we going to have a prime directive like Star Trek to honor all life we may come into contact with and not interfere with their culture? Although I have very Shamanistic beliefs that everything is sacred I hope it is shown I can see a very secular and practical view to space travel, I am just wondering though: what is our purpose for traveling in space?

Dominance and destruction, removed from the negative connotations that you inevitably associate with it, are the main processes of survival by which all organisms operate.
This is just as true of the microscopic primary consumers as it is of human beings. To think otherwise is a mistake.

The only difference between our consumption and the consumption caused by other species is that we can verbalize and "understand" our motivations. At the end of the day, a well-reasoned argument for consuming is still no different than mindless consumption. Consumption, dominance, and destruction are still happening - who cares what reasons are presented for it?

 

[Thief]

I come from an old religion that has trouble understanding why humans would want to go to our Moon, Mars, The Solar System or travel via interstellar Space? The reason this confuses me are the ethics and philosophical concerns of traveling and possibly colonizing these Heavenly Celestial objects for our own use?

There are some people who view the Earth, Our Moon, and the entire Cosmos as Sacred objects that deserve respect, to be in Awe of their presence, and hopefully to inspire us to open our eyes and be better people by finally understanding the need for connection to our entire Universe we reside in, but sadly whenever I hear of space travel I hear of the moon not as a Sacred object, but as a commodity, to be exploited for it's natural resources, that can be used as a launching pad to venture out to other celestial objects to exploit their natural resources as well.

When I think of human space travel I think of the destructive nature of the locust, and how they destroy a region by over consumption and once that area is destroyed, they travel to another region to deplete that resource as well. I hope that is not the purpose of our space travel to other areas as well. I am in Awe and humbled by the vastness of our Universe and how we are such a small and insignificant dot compared to the Cosmos, I sincerely hope that when we explore Her Sacredness, we find our Humanity and need for connection to the Universe and to each other as well.

not to worry....
we humans are not leaving the solar system

our frail structure can barely tolerate the 18g's it takes to get into orbit
a duration of a few minutes

to escape the pull of the solar gravity....you must endure 44g's
sustained for a VERY long time

won't happen

we are not leaving in bodily form
spirit only

 

[Quetzal]

not to worry....
we humans are not leaving the solar system

our frail structure can barely tolerate the 18g's it takes to get into orbit
a duration of a few minutes

to escape the pull of the solar gravity....you must endure 44g's
sustained for a VERY long time

won't happen

we are not leaving in bodily form
spirit only

Thankfully engineers do not share your perspective. They have more optimistic approach.

 

[jonathan180iq]

to escape the pull of the solar gravity....you must endure 44g's
sustained for a VERY long time

Not true.

 

[Quetzal]

Not true.

I knew that number sounded fishy...

 

[gnostic]

The sun is finite. On a long enough timeline, it will go super nova and that will be all she wrote.

The sun is indeed finite.

However, the current stage of the sun indicated that the sun is not massive enough to go "supernova".

According to scientists, they predict when the sun run out of hydrogen to fuse, it will fusing helium into heavier elements within the sun's core. This will cause the sun turn from main sequence yellow dwarf star into a red giant.

As a red giant it will cause the sun to expand in size, swallowing up Mercury and then Venus, and at the same killing all life on Earth, from heat and stripping away the Earth's atmospheres, and boiling all trace of water. The Earth will become the new Venus.

Turning into red giant star will not begin to happen until at least 4 billion years (or more) from now.

As a red giant star, the outer layers of the sun will begin peel away, eventually leaving only the sun's core. This core is a white dwarf star. I don't remember the science prediction of the sun becoming a white dwarf. Eventually the white dwarf will lose it luminosity, and become a black dwarf, some trillions of years from now.

My point is that the sun is just not massive enough to explode as a supernova, or become a neutron star or a black hole. It is the mass of the star that determine the fate of the star.

 

[Demonslayer]

The Earth will become the new Venus.

I'm building a beach resort on Mars for when this day comes.

Sure, I'll be dead by then, but if the reincarnation crowd is right maybe I'll be back.

 

[Demonslayer]

a white dwarf star

 

[Quetzal]

The sun is indeed finite.

However, the current stage of the sun indicated that the sun is not massive enough to go "supernova".

According to scientists, they predict when the sun run out of hydrogen to fuse, it will fusing helium into heavier elements within the sun's core. This will cause the sun turn from main sequence yellow dwarf star into a red giant.

As a red giant it will cause the sun to expand in size, swallowing up Mercury and then Venus, and at the same killing all life on Earth, from heat and stripping away the Earth's atmospheres, and boiling all trace of water. The Earth will become the new Venus.

Turning into red giant star will not begin to happen until at least 4 billion years (or more) from now.

As a red giant star, the outer layers of the sun will begin peel away, eventually leaving only the sun's core. This core is a white dwarf star. I don't remember the science prediction of the sun becoming a white dwarf. Eventually the white dwarf will lose it luminosity, and become a black dwarf, some trillions of years from now.

Awesome! (well not awesome since we all die, but you know...) Thank you for the correction.

 

[Thief]

Not true.

I got it from a physics course I took (college)

you got better numbers?

 

[Quetzal]

I got it from a physics course I took (college)

you got better numbers?

You provided the figure, you provide the evidence. That whole burden of truth thing. In the meantime, I will see what I can dig up.

 

[Quetzal]

Ah ha! Here we go!

To leave planet Earth an escape velocity of 11.2 km/s is required, however a speed of 42.1 km/s is required to escape the Sun's gravity (and exit the solar system) from the same position. The escape velocity from the surface of a rotating body depends on direction in which the escaping body travels.

http://www.universe-galaxies-stars.com/Escape_velocity.html

Also important to point out that increasing speed is relatively easy and doesn't require much energy via the gravity sling shot technique. See: Voyager who just high fived Pluto and is still going!

 

[Demonslayer]

See: Voyager who just high fived Pluto and is still going!

I was at the Museum of Science this weekend in Boston and was sad to see they officially removed Pluto from the planets display. I still think the cold little guy got a bum rap!

 

[Thief]

You provided the figure, you provide the evidence. That whole burden of truth thing. In the meantime, I will see what I can dig up.

I did some digging and I find the equation a bit over my head....
but I did not forget the number provided at the classroom.

wiki does explain escape velocity
and also notes, if your vehicle can maintain a course with sufficient fuel....
you need not be shot into space like a bullet

still there's that problem of getting crushed in your seat.....
for a very long time

 

[Quetzal]

I was at the Museum of Science this weekend in Boston and was sad to see they officially removed Pluto from the planets display. I still think the cold little guy got a bum rap!

Yeah, poor little guy.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

not to worry....
we humans are not leaving the solar system

our frail structure can barely tolerate the 18g's it takes to get into orbit
a duration of a few minutes

to escape the pull of the solar gravity....you must endure 44g's
sustained for a VERY long time

won't happen

we are not leaving in bodily form
spirit only

Your numbers are incorrect, and have no clue where you got these: maximum to get into orbit using current technology is 3 g's--fighter pilots on occasion experience 10 g's for a few moments, but that's because of high speeds and rapid maneuvers. (http://www.spaceanswers.com/space-e...astronauts-experience-during-a-rocket-launch/ , for example)

As for departing the solar system: a continuous 1-g acceleration (feeling like standing on earth's surface) can get a space vessel from "standstill" to 99.999 percent the speed of light in roughly 350 days...9.9 meters a second, every second, adds up quickly.

escape velocity (to orbit) of earth is about 7.9 kilometers per second; to escape earth entirely (eg, go to the moon or elsewhere) it's 11.2 k/s; and to escape the solar system, it's 42.1 k/s.

The only time high-g loads are needed is for extremely rapid accelerations...since extreme accelerations aren't needed to achieve orbital and escape velocities (you could conceivably lift off into orbit if you had a system capable of a continuous 1.1 g acceleration...we just don't have that technology yet)

 

[Thief]

Your numbers are incorrect, and have no clue where you got these: maximum to get into orbit using current technology is 3 g's--fighter pilots on occasion experience 10 g's for a few moments, but that's because of high speeds and rapid maneuvers. (http://www.spaceanswers.com/space-e...astronauts-experience-during-a-rocket-launch/ , for example)

As for departing the solar system: a continuous 1-g acceleration (feeling like standing on earth's surface) can get a space vessel from "standstill" to 99.999 percent the speed of light in roughly 350 days...9.9 meters a second, every second, adds up quickly.

escape velocity (to orbit) of earth is about 7.9 kilometers per second; to escape earth entirely (eg, go to the moon or elsewhere) it's 11.2 k/s; and to escape the solar system, it's 42.1 k/s.

The only time high-g loads are needed is for extremely rapid accelerations...since extreme accelerations aren't needed to achieve orbital and escape velocities (you could conceivably lift off into orbit if you had a system capable of a continuous 1.1 g acceleration...we just don't have that technology yet)

and at these lesser speeds.....how many years to the edge of our system?
Voyager took how long?
and the next solar system is how many light years?

 

[Quetzal]

wiki does explain escape velocity
and also notes, if your vehicle can maintain a course with sufficient fuel....
you need not be shot into space like a bullet

I have questions, isn't the most efficient way to travel through space by taking advantage of the gravity of other bodies? In that case, you don't want to be shot into space like a bullet. You want to use archs and apexes to sling shot your way out.

still there's that problem of getting crushed in your seat.....

I don't get this either. Where would that force come from? We have folks in the ISS cruising around the earth at a humble 17,150 miles per hour, so it doesn't have to do with speed, right?