Space Travel Purpose?

[Ben Dhyan]

interesting...I'm glad to see someone is thinking ahead in a systematic and more or less realistic way...although I have my doubts about how soon these things will happen, vis-a-vis the timeline here...

The actual plans for space exploration are mostly not in the public domain...I was a member of the NSS (National Space Society....ps. I can't believe I typed NSA before I edited it... ) during the early1990's and saw a copy of the first Integrated Space Plan of1989, which did not appear in the public domain until about 2010...it blew my mind at the time, but you will note the time line was way out...who knows where they are really at though? ..here.. http://makezine.com/2013/07/06/the-rockwell-integrated-space-plan-vector-redux-version/

 

[Thief]

How about from the Earth to Alpha Cen

Sure it is possible to go interstellar....in the body...only 1g acceleration required..."If a ship is using 1 g constant acceleration, it will approach the speed of light in about a year, and have traveled about half a light year in distance." .... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_travel_using_constant_acceleration#Interstellar_traveling_speeds ....To get to the nearest star system.....Alpha Centauri, which is located 4.37 light years away, it would take about 5 years.

Near the speed of light, theoretically the space travelers' aging processes almost cease ....so then journeys of thousands, tens of thousands, and perhaps even millions of light years become theoretically possible. Fwiw, if aging ceased completely at light speed, one could travel the universe forever...

However there is science being done on FTL (faster than light) space travel....breakfast with the family....meeting at Alpha Cantauri at lunch time, and back for dinner with the family in the evening.. Here is interesting theory wrt FTL zpe warp drive presented at NASA Breakthrough Propulsion Physics workshop.... http://www.padrak.com/ine/ZPEFLIGHT.html

I'm not sure about that aging process slowing down

once the speed of light is obtained....
your body moves with the ship and the g forces disappear
you would float in the cabin

for your body functions to continue.....all of the chemistry must remain as you know it......as is
so many breaths for so many heartbeats
the clock in the cabin will keep on ticking

the differential comes to play when you slow down
and more so if you return to Earth

if your journey lasts 5yrs.....you would be five years older
but everything on Earth will progress as is

do your numbers tell you what century it will be when you get back?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I'm not sure about that aging process slowing down

once the speed of light is obtained....
your body moves with the ship and the g forces disappear
you would float in the cabin

for your body functions to continue.....all of the chemistry must remain as you know it......as is
so many breaths for so many heartbeats
the clock in the cabin will keep on ticking

the differential comes to play when you slow down
and more so if you return to Earth

if your journey lasts 5yrs.....you would be five years older
but everything on Earth will progress as is

do your numbers tell you what century it will be when you get back?

Yes...of course g forces only occur during acceleration and deceleration phases of the journey. To stop at Alpha Centauri, have cup of tea and return to Earth...you add one year to accelerate from Earth to light speed, add 3.5 years at light speed towards Alpha Centuri, and add one year of deceleration to stop at Alpha Centuari...a total of 5.5 years....it is the same for the return journey...so that is a total of 11 years to travel there, and then return to Earth. What's this talk of what century?

 

[Thief]

Yes...of course g forces only occur during acceleration and deceleration phases of the journey. To stop at Alpha Centauri, have cup of tea and return to Earth...you add one year to accelerate from Earth to light speed, add 3.5 years at light speed towards Alpha Centuri, and add one year of deceleration to stop at Alpha Centuari...a total of 5.5 years....it is the same for the return journey...so that is a total of 11 years to travel there, and then return to Earth. What's this talk of what century?

movement is relative
and the speculation using numbers leans to the idea....
someone at light speed will return to Earth and find a different era in play

 

[Ben Dhyan]

movement is relative
and the speculation using numbers leans to the idea....
someone at light speed will return to Earth and find a different era in play

Yes...the people on Earth would have aged eleven years.....the space travelers would have aged about two years....say about 6 months during the one year acceleration phase to Alpha Centuari, another 6 months during the deceleration phase to stop at Alpha Centuari...the the same on the return trip, 6 months during the one year period of acceleration to light speed and another 6 months to decelerate to arrive at Earth... There is no speculation..just simple arithmetic....though the precise aging that would take place during each of the one year acceleration and deceleration phases is approximated..

 

[Thief]

Yes...the people on Earth would have aged eleven years.....the space travelers would have aged about two years....say about 6 months during the one year acceleration phase to Alpha Centuari, another 6 months during the deceleration phase to stop at Alpha Centuari...the the same on the return trip, 6 months during the one year period of acceleration to light speed and another 6 months to decelerate to arrive at Earth... There is no speculation..just simple arithmetic....though the precise aging that would take place during each of the one year acceleration and deceleration phases is approximated..

I lean to the speculation....

for example.....let's say....
the experience of high end movement could be dealt up close and personal

having the ability to move at the speed of light......
you take off to go do some things
and I wait on spot, for your return

one second passes and you reappear in the same spot you stood......only a moment ago

I ask how it went and you tell me all the many things you saw and did while on your trip

the problem is chemistry
one heart beat for me sustains my life for that moment
if you could move at the speed of light........your heart would beat how many times?

point is......
moving a great distance is moving a great distance

your chemistry won't keep pace

to go a great distance and do several things would require your chemistry to do likewise
the calories needed have to be pumped through your body that you are able to move

one second of life for me is the same for you

unless your heart speeds up in sync to your acceleration.

how many calories would you expend on a journey of 186,262 miles?
how many times must your heart beat during that 'time'?

once?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Maybe the final Game of Thrones novels will come out by then.

Or a Windows version that actually works.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I lean to the speculation....

for example.....let's say....
the experience of high end movement could be dealt up close and personal

having the ability to move at the speed of light......
you take off to go do some things
and I wait on spot, for your return

one second passes and you reappear in the same spot you stood......only a moment ago

I ask how it went and you tell me all the many things you saw and did while on your trip

the problem is chemistry
one heart beat for me sustains my life for that moment
if you could move at the speed of light........your heart would beat how many times?

point is......
moving a great distance is moving a great distance

your chemistry won't keep pace

to go a great distance and do several things would require your chemistry to do likewise
the calories needed have to be pumped through your body that you are able to move

one second of life for me is the same for you

unless your heart speeds up in sync to your acceleration.

how many calories would you expend on a journey of 186,262 miles?
how many times must your heart beat during that 'time'?

once?

No...there is no time at the speed of light...so there are no seconds.... Pure awareness does not compute, conceptualize, analyze, or think about reality....it merely is ever aware in the now.. You are trying to compare a time based reality with a timelessness.....not possible except to state the obvious...time is merely an observation of movement...it is not real in the absolute sense...

 

[Thief]

No...there is no time at the speed of light...so there are no seconds.... Pure awareness does not compute, conceptualize, analyze, or think about reality....it merely is ever aware in the now.. You are trying to compare a time based reality with a timelessness.....not possible except to state the obvious...time is merely an observation of movement...it is not real in the absolute sense...

you're jumping from my post of a physical nature to that of spiritual

let's keep it separate

 

[Ben Dhyan]

you're jumping from my post of a physical nature to that of spiritual

let's keep it separate

It is only the mortal mind that imagines reality is distinctly dual in nature....God and not God..

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Pure awareness does not compute, conceptualize, analyze, or think about reality....it merely is ever aware in the now.. You are trying to compare a time based reality with a timelessness.....not possible except to state the obvious...time is merely an observation of movement...it is not real in the absolute sense...

This is rambling, pretentious twaddle. Time is integral to the fabric of the universe, hence "space-time", hence the Arrow of time, entropy, atomic clocks, and so on. There is perpetual change and perpetual time.

The experience of "timelessness" results from being fully in the present, but it is a subjective experience with no correlation "out there". It certainly doesn't mean the universe is timeless.
It's like people who have an experience of inner stillness and assume it must correspond to a still background in the universe or something, it's nonsense, all just egocentric projection.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

It is only the mortal mind that imagines reality is distinctly dual in nature....God and not God..

Lordy, give it a rest, stop the shallow off-topic sermonising. We ain't your congregation, so get down from the pulpit.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

This is just pretentious pseudo-spiritual twaddle. Time is integral to the fabric of the universe, hence "space-time", hence the Arrow of time, entropy, atomic clocks, and so on. There is perpetual change and therefore perpetual time.

Your experience of "timelessness" is merely a subjective state which you are projecting out in a rather egocentric and naive way. If you'd actually been fully in the present you would understand this.

What has pure awareness got to do with the perceptions and conceptions of mortals?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

What has pure awareness got to do with the perceptions and conceptions of mortals?

What on earth is "pure awareness"? Define your jargon or stop using it.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Lordy, give it a rest, stop the shallow off-topic sermonising. We ain't your congregation, so get down from the pulpit.

If you do not understand a mature discussion between serious members of RF...then please try and control your emotional fragility...

 

[Rick O'Shez]

If you do not understand a mature discussion between serious members of RF...then please try and control your emotional fragility...

"Mature discussion"?! You really are joking.

But stop sermonising, it really is tedious.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

What on earth is "pure awareness"? Define your jargon or stop using it.

Timeless awareness....ie..not a conceptual interpretation...

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Timeless awareness....ie..not a conceptual interpretation...

There is always awareness of change. If you are paying close attention.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

There is always awareness of change. If you are paying close attention.

So long as there is a "you' paying attention....there is an absence of pure awareness...

 

[Rick O'Shez]

So long as there is a you paying attention....there is an absence of pure awareness...

I don't think you know what you are talking about, it's just rhetoric.