Spanking Kids in Kansas

[dawny0826]

I'm not in the habit of repeatedly posting links that have already been posted several times. Penumbra posted it first, I reposted it very recently - like in the last couple of pages. If you didn't bother clicking it before despite multiple opportunities, I have no reason to suppose you'll suddenly start clicking on it now. I can only conclude that your real intention is to waste my time. Not to actually view the meta-analysis of the effects of corporal punishment that is the one and only reason nobody who read it takes any of your arguments seriously.

I apologize if you feel like I've been wasting your time.

You have asserted in this thread that spanking is abusive behavior - period. I don't expect or even want for you to sway your opinions. I have looked into he meta analysis. I'm not lying when I tell you that the family PMHNP (my sis) was influenced enough by the data, that she will not utilize corporal discipline on her daughter at all.

There is a significant difference between the authoritative and authoritarian parenting style. There is a significant difference between a conditional spanking and a non-conditional form of corporal punishment.

As posted, the concerns of some who participated in studies was that these varying forms may not have been differentiated in study. It's an incredibly important distinction.

My tone and intentions are in no way reflective of arrogance. If I've missed something and am misunderstanding, I'm genuinely requesting direction and clarification.

Would never argue that corporal punishment can be dangerous. There's only been a hand full of times that I've utilized it myself and I releate to Dr. Robert Lazerle as the form of conditional spanking that he references is the very form that I can relate to administering. And its not comparable to the violent and angry form of corporal discipline that I agree, fully, is apt to yield longer-term negate consequences in addition to immediate impact.

 

[Alceste]

I apologize if you feel like I've been wasting your time.

You have asserted in this thread that spanking is abusive behavior - period. I don't expect or even want for you to sway your opinions. I have looked into he meta analysis. I'm not lying when I tell you that the family PMHNP (my sis) was influenced enough by the data, that she will not utilize corporal discipline on her daughter at all.

There is a significant difference between the authoritative and authoritarian parenting style. There is a significant difference between a conditional spanking and a non-conditional form of corporal punishment.

As posted, the concerns of some who participated in studies was that these varying forms may not have been differentiated in study. It's an incredibly important distinction.

My tone and intentions are in no way reflective of arrogance. If I've missed something and am misunderstanding, I'm genuinely requesting direction and clarification.

Would never argue that corporal punishment can be dangerous. There's only been a hand full of times that I've utilized it myself and I releate to Dr. Robert Lazerle as the form of conditional spanking that he references is the very form that I can relate to administering. And its not comparable to the violent and angry form of corporal discipline that I agree, fully, is apt to yield longer-term negate consequences in addition to immediate impact.

I understand that it's important for you to establish a distinction between this or that type of hitting. You have your reasons, given that it's a disciplinary tool you approve of. It makes total sense that you would not be comfortable viewing all hitting behavior on a single spectrum from mild to severe, so you believe there is a significant difference between the hitting you approve of and the hitting you don't.

I hope you understand that because I don't hit anyone, ever, except in self defense, making such a distinction is not necessary for me. You hit only lightly and rarely, somebody else his a little harder than you and a little more often, someone else hits a little harder and on it goes, without anyone ever hitting any actual boundary apart from their own personal comfort level regarding how much they are willing to hurt kids.

As I see it, all those people are basically just doing whatever their parents did, although from what I see around me each generation seems to want to take it down a notch from the level their parents were comfortable with. In some cases, several notches.

 

[dawny0826]

I understand that it's important for you to establish a distinction between this or that type of hitting. You have your reasons, given that it's a disciplinary tool you approve of. It makes total sense that you would not be comfortable viewing all hitting behavior on a single spectrum from mild to severe, so you believe there is a significant difference between the hitting you approve of and the hitting you don't.

I hope you understand that because I don't hit anyone, ever, except in self defense, making such a distinction is not necessary for me. You hit only lightly and rarely, somebody else his a little harder than you and a little more often, someone else hits a little harder and on it goes, without anyone ever hitting any actual boundary apart from their own personal comfort level regarding how much they are willing to hurt kids.

As I see it, all those people are basically just doing whatever their parents did, although from what I see around me each generation seems to want to take it down a notch from the level their parents were comfortable with. In some cases, several notches.

Fair enough. Though, I hope you understand the importance of parents like myself taking time to educate others on such differentiations, as they are important, at least to us and to our children.

 

[Alceste]

Fair enough. Though, I hope you understand the importance of parents like myself taking time to educate others on such differentiations, as they are important, at least to us and to our children.

Lol, educate away, but don't be surprised if I end up sticking with the consensus of those who study these things professionally.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Lol. I highly doubt anyone here walks around with the desire to hit a child. It's not something you want to do.

How is spanking not hitting a child?

Please, As if the anti-spanking ones aren't. And I'd say a lot of parents fall into that category.

From the studies you have presented, it doesn't seem that many do.

They're children. They need to be taught, To be kept safe. Spanking is a tool used to do this. It's not your responsibility to teach adults, But it is your responsibility to teach and discipline your child.

So it is ok to hit someone as long as they are a child and you are teaching them and/or keeping them safe? I would think teaching my children, if I had any, that mommy will give all the tough love in the world, but also that their mom is the last person in the world they can expect to lay a hand on them. Actually just replace children with nieces and nephews, and mom with aunt, and it pretty much sums up my position.

I linked a study a few pages back that showed kids who had been spanked were more likely to be successful than kids who weren't.

And I can show research that claims otherwise. I can also cite my own experience of going through hell in public school and and then getting to look forward to coming home to a mother I was terrified of.

Spanking is effective, It's not just something you 'get through' or endure. It's a tool used to teach, And it works.

So do words. Actually if you can effectively use words, even without being mean, you can make words hurt more, sting deeper, and let the issue of disappointment be addressed without hitting a child.

 

[dawny0826]

Lol, educate away, but don't be surprised if I end up sticking with the consensus of those who study these things professionally.

LOL. For the upteenth time, I'm not arrogant enough to criticize your choices in this regard. In fact, there's much that we agree on in regards to corporal punishment.

 

[Alceste]

LOL. For the upteenth time, I'm not arrogant enough to criticize your choices in this regard. In fact, there's much that we agree on in regards to corporal punishment.

Really? Because usually someone who is simply expressing a personal ethical opinion with no basis in facts or empirical evidence doesn't say things like "I'm trying to educate you", because that's a rather arrogant thing to say.

That said, yes, I think we agree for the most part, in that violence at such a low level that it is not found to be associated with psychological harm should not be criminalized. That certainly includes people making parenting choices I may not agree with for ethical or rational reasons.

 

[dawny0826]

Really? Because usually someone who is simply expressing a personal ethical opinion with no basis in facts or empirical evidence doesn't say things like "I'm trying to educate you", because that's a rather arrogant thing to say.

That said, yes, I think we agree for the most part, in that violence at such a low level that it is not found to be associated with psychological harm should not be criminalized. That certainly includes people making parenting choices I may not agree with for ethical or rational reasons.

Hey! Do you really think that I'm creative enough to come up with a term like "conditional" spanking on my own? Sheesh. I borrowed the term from a doctor, Dr. Robert Lazelere, who supported/participated in 26 studies on this form of discipline.

For what it's worth, I'm glad that we see eye to eye on the really important stuff, here.

I certainly don't think that kids shoudl be spanked in school and I sure as heck do not think that corporal punishment should be a preferred form of discipline.

Here's to common ground! :drunk:

 

[Alceste]

Hey! Do you really think that I'm creative enough to come up with a term like "conditional" spanking on my own? Sheesh. I borrowed the term from a doctor, Dr. Robert Lazelere, who supported/participated in 26 studies on this form of discipline.

For what it's worth, I'm glad that we see eye to eye on the really important stuff, here.

I certainly don't think that kids shoudl be spanked in school and I sure as heck do not think that corporal punishment should be a preferred form of discipline.

Here's to common ground! :drunk:

I'll drink to that!

 

[Sunstone]

I've seen "Conditional spanking" defined as no more than two open handed swats on the buttocks that do not produce pain or redness. It was also recommended that conditional spanking be discontinued if it proves ineffective. i.e. if it doesn't work, don't resort to hitting the kid harder.

 

[Alceste]

I've seen "Conditional spanking" defined as no more than two open handed swats on the buttocks that do not produce pain or redness. It was also recommended that conditional spanking be discontinued if it proves ineffective. i.e. if it doesn't work, don't resort to hitting the kid harder.

Sounds pretty harmless. I thought it meant spanking under a certain set of conditions defined by the parent, which would basically be all of it.

 

[psychoslice]

Is burping your baby for wind harmful?.

 

[beenie]

Is burping your baby for wind harmful?.

Is this a serious question? One is to provide relief and one is to frighten and punish your child.

Nice strawman.

 

[Gehennaite]

I was hit as a child in various ways as a form of punishment. I would never repeat those experiences onto any child.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Is burping your baby for wind harmful?.

Not at all. Burping them is done to help them work air out of their stomach, air that would otherwise cause discomfort and work its way into the gastrointestinal tract.

I was hit as a child in various ways as a form of punishment. I would never repeat those experiences onto any child.

Unfortunately, many parents raise their children like their own parents. My older siblings raise their kids like our mom raised us, and I see the same general lack respect from my nieces and nephews towards their parents that my siblings and I had towards our own mom. And rather than respect, there is nothing more than fear of the consequences.