Speaking in tongues

[URAVIP2ME]

I thought you knew that the KING JAMES BIBLE is the 100% absolute truth.
I swear on it!
if you start going back to who added what and when they added it, then Pandora's box is officially open.

I am sure you realize KJV is a translation and was not written in the original Hebrew and Greek? Hasn't language changed over the centuries?
For example:
Can you explain these KJV verses to us:
Genesis 25v29
Leviticus 26v16
Isaiah 14v23
Philemon verse 8

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So as long as it works for a few people or did at one time, everyone's covered. got it

Originally Mark 16 ended at verse 8. After verse 8 is not part of Scripture.

 

[Muffled]

Wait, the differences between them and what?

Of course, except to the linguists who can recognise whether something is a real language or not.

How does one judge a language that he doesn't know? Should I say Polish is not a real language becuase it is a language that I don't know? It doesn't soound like a real language to me. It sounds like babbling. If I only know English syntax should I find Spanish to be not a language because the syntax is different from Englsih?

 

[Muffled]

It's all psychological.... You wanted to do it, so you did. The said person just enabled you a bit. Think of it like Hypnosis, in fact there is little very difference between someone who get get you to do this and a hypnotist.

They have actually done studies on this now and have shown that when someone is speaking in tongues, the languages do not exist (made up by the individual) and the brain mimics a trance like state similar to hypnosis.

Think of this like a placebo. It doesn't really do anything unless of course.... You believe it does, in a way you are using a form of self hypnosis to convince yourself you are doing something your not.

How do you establish proof for this? Can you enter my mind and find a way to distinguish between mental and spiritual? I think not.

I would be interested in finding out how one does a study on something that doesn't exist, lol.

If it were just wishful thinking then why wouldn't I be able to achieve my wish?
If I were enabled then how did that occur? There was nothing mental passed and a physical touch should not be able to produce that which I could not produce on my own.

 

[PolyHedral]

How do you establish proof for this? Can you enter my mind and find a way to distinguish between mental and spiritual? I think not.

The problem is that the all of the evidence we have of any sort of spirituality is subjective. Since the subjective evidence can be explained by mental faults, Occam's Razor says spirituality as an external thing doesn't exist.

If it were just wishful thinking then why wouldn't I be able to achieve my wish?

Because you know you can't. Placebo-like effects are interesting like that.

 

[Muffled]

Please quote scripture where the supposed Jesus supported speaking in "tongues".

Acts 1:5 For John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days hence.

This is a carte blanche support for whatever the Holy Spirit does. As such it further supports all that Paul said about tongues since he is speaking the words that the Holy spirit gives him.

 

[tumbleweed41]

How does one judge a language that he doesn't know? Should I say Polish is not a real language becuase it is a language that I don't know? It doesn't soound like a real language to me. It sounds like babbling. If I only know English syntax should I find Spanish to be not a language because the syntax is different from Englsih?

It would take a Linguist, for example...

"When the full apparatus of linguistic science comes to bear on glossolalia, this turns out to be only a facade of language — although at times a very good one indeed. For when we comprehend what language is, we must conclude that no glossa, no matter how well constructed, is a specimen of human language, because it is neither internally organized nor systematically related to the world man perceives."
William Samarin, Professor of Linguistics, Hartford Seminary

 

[Muffled]

The problem is that the all of the evidence we have of any sort of spirituality is subjective. Since the subjective evidence can be explained by mental faults, Occam's Razor says spirituality as an external thing doesn't exist.


Because you know you can't. Placebo-like effects are interesting like that.

I do not believe this to be true. I don't think you have an objective bone in your body. If I add oxygen to hydrogen I can get water. You can't see the hydrogen or oxygen but you can see the water. People say the spirit doesn't exist because it can't be seen but one can see the results. However the detractors will say the results just magically appeared as though there were no cause and affect. They would not be so quick to say that water just magically appeared. When it comes to spirituality the scientific community becomes superstitious.

That is preposterous. A person who knows he can't won't even try. I had no previous mindset other than the Bible said it would happen. Actually it was the trying to do it myself that stood in my way. When the person laid hands on me I momentarily stopped trying. In fact my mind was momentarily emptied. However there is every reason to believe that he imparted the spirit that was upon him to me in the same way that a healer imparts spiritual healing from himself to the person being healed.

 

[logician]

Acts 1:5For John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days hence.

This is a carte blanche support for whatever the Holy Spirit does. As such it further supports all that Paul said about tongues since he is speaking the words that the Holy spirit gives him.

LOL Quite a strech there.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The problem is that the all of the evidence we have of any sort of spirituality is subjective. Since the subjective evidence can be explained by mental faults, Occam's Razor says spirituality as an external thing doesn't exist.
Because you know you can't. Placebo-like effects are interesting like that.

Reap/Sow

Isn't spirituality shown by what one reaps?
One's fruits [behavior] Matthew chapter 7.
If everyone on earth lived by the Golden Rule wouldn't the results be an existing external thing?

 

[PolyHedral]

Morality != spirituality. You can arrive at the golden rule through entirely secular game theory.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Morality != spirituality. You can arrive at the golden rule through entirely secular game theory.

Romans [2vs13.14] calls that 'secular game theory' as Conscience.
-1Tim4v2

Animals go by instinct.
Humans have an inborn conscience.

That conscience, or moral compass, validates behavior.
It can point at accusing or excusing actions.
What is clear is the uninstructed conscience is not a sufficient guide.
A hardened conscience can become unfeeling like flesh seared with a branding iron and one can drift into total moral collapse.

We are all created as free moral agents. We all choose whether to live by the Golden Rule or not. What better conscience guide is there than Jesus Sermon on the Mount?

 

[PolyHedral]

Romans [2vs13.14] calls that 'secular game theory' as Conscience.
-1Tim4v2

That would be quite impressive, since game theory wasn't developed for 1900 years or as after Romans was written.

Animals go by instinct.
Humans have an inborn conscience.

Humans have just as much instinct as animals, though they have several high-order brain functions to help them correct any failing in their instinct. If you start with self-preservation, you can arrive at the golden rule through what I think is pure deduction, no emotions or conscience involved.

We are all created as free moral agents. We all choose whether to live by the Golden Rule or not. What better conscience guide is there than Jesus Sermon on the Mount?

How about logical deduction?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Jack-

If humans have as much instinct as animals then why do we need directions?
Birds and butterflies migrate without maps but instinct.
Conscience and emotions are also two different things.

True, self preservation is a great motivator, and as Paul wrote for when the people of nations do not have the law, they do by nature the things contained in the law....not having law they are a law unto themselves....Romans 2vs14,15,

If logical deduction was all that was necessary, then why don't we have world peace?
Isn't having peace on earth a logical deduction to desire ?
So isn't it a logical deduction that a person is basically as good or evil as he so chooses?

Inevitably the more a person allows or permits himself to be influenced by the world's bad spirit the more he becomes to have a bad spirit choosing to be more like Satan's selfish qualities. So, since we have high-order brain function we choose what will govern our lives. Either choose being governed by God's spirit or ensnared by the world's unholy spirit which is manifest by the behaviors and actions described at 2nd Tim 3vs1-5,13.

1st Peter 5v8 says to be alert! because our enemy the devil walks about like a roaring Lion seeking to devour us. But Satan is not stronger in a spiritual sense because as 2nd Peter 2v9 mentions that God knows how to deliver righteous people out of temptation.
We can not be tempted beyond what we can bear. God makes the way out.
-1Cor 10v13

Satan does not succeed in destroying the sheep-like ones of Matthew chapter 25.
Those humble, mild, meek sheep-like people are preserved alive and saved right into the start of Jesus 1000-year reign over earth having the prospect of everlasting life in view as originally offer to Adam to live forever on a paradisaic earth.

 

[jonman122]

Jack-

If humans have as much instinct as animals then why do we need directions?
Birds and butterflies migrate without maps but instinct.
Conscience and emotions are also two different things.

True, self preservation is a great motivator, and as Paul wrote for when the people of nations do not have the law, they do by nature the things contained in the law....not having law they are a law unto themselves....Romans 2vs14,15,

If logical deduction was all that was necessary, then why don't we have world peace?
Isn't having peace on earth a logical deduction to desire ?
So isn't it a logical deduction that a person is basically as good or evil as he so chooses?

Inevitably the more a person allows or permits himself to be influenced by the world's bad spirit the more he becomes to have a bad spirit choosing to be more like Satan's selfish qualities. So, since we have high-order brain function we choose what will govern our lives. Either choose being governed by God's spirit or ensnared by the world's unholy spirit which is manifest by the behaviors and actions described at 2nd Tim 3vs1-5,13.

1st Peter 5v8 says to be alert! because our enemy the devil walks about like a roaring Lion seeking to devour us. But Satan is not stronger in a spiritual sense because as 2nd Peter 2v9 mentions that God knows how to deliver righteous people out of temptation.
We can not be tempted beyond what we can bear. God makes the way out.
-1Cor 10v13

Satan does not succeed in destroying the sheep-like ones of Matthew chapter 25.
Those humble, mild, meek sheep-like people are preserved alive and saved right into the start of Jesus 1000-year reign over earth having the prospect of everlasting life in view as originally offer to Adam to live forever on a paradisaic earth.

quoting the bible doesnt help you here.

to answer some things, birds and butterflies can fly, humans can't. If we wanted to migrate, i'm certain we would be able to. It's just not something we're instinctually designed to do, just like bears and deer and moose and polar bears don't migrate (theres a lot more to add to that list if you want)

if people based all of their decisions off of logic alone, the world would be a perfect place. but people have this fantastic trait they call "faith" that, opposing logic, causes terrible things to happen. Emotions are also illogical as far as that is concerned, and i don't see many people without those.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

How does faith oppose logic? Credulity [blind faith] does, but the faith Jesus had he developed by using logic and reasoning on already existing Scripture on to which to base his beliefs.

The clergy have often 'put' words in Jesus mouth, so to speak, instead of listening to the words that came out of his mouth. They act as if they are some sort of holy ventriloquist instead of teaching what the Bible really teaches.

Since we are all humanly imperfect then emotions can also be imperfect. but applying such things as the 'Golden Rule' helps keep unwanted emotions in check.

Why don't you want to migrate? If you did, how would you migrate to Mexico?
Why aren't we instinctively designed to migrate?
Could it be because animals go by instinct and humans have an inborn conscience?

 

[jonman122]

Why don't you want to migrate? If you did, how would you migrate to Mexico?
Why aren't we instinctively designed to migrate?
Could it be because animals go by instinct and humans have an inborn conscience?

why don't bears migrate? why dont deer migrate? why do some animals migrate, while some dont? i would imagine that if i didnt have a vehicle and i was left to the same things that animals are left to, i would migrate to a warmer climate every winter so as to not freeze to death, and i would do so by walking. Thing is, i have this nice cozy house that stays warm throughout the whole winter so i dont have a need to migrate. plus, i have a housefull of junk that i dont want to lose. most birds dont leave behind computers

 

[URAVIP2ME]

....and remember you would be walking by instinct nothing else.
How far would just using instinct get a person to migrate to an exact destination?

 

[jonman122]

....and remember you would be walking by instinct nothing else.
How far would just using instinct get a person to migrate to an exact destination?

how far does it get a bear or a deer? not every animal migrates, your argument is flawed.

 

[Arav]

how far does it get a bear or a deer? not every animal migrates, your argument is flawed.

Hahahaha, what? I think your missing their point. Look at the moon, not the finger pointing at it. Or now are you going to say there is no finger pointing at the moon instead of understanding the underlying concept?