Speaking in tongues

[jonman122]

Hahahaha, what? I think your missing their point. Look at the moon, not the finger pointing at it. Or now are you going to say there is no finger pointing at the moon instead of understanding the underlying concept?

then explain the concept, rather than using a flawed argument. Why ask me if i understand your underlying concept when it seems evident to you that i don't? explain it to me.

 

[Arav]

then explain the concept, rather than using a flawed argument. Why ask me if i understand your underlying concept when it seems evident to you that i don't? explain it to me.

I must say that I appologise, I believe I misinterpreted you. I only read part of the conversation not understanding the rest. Again, I am sorry. :sorry1:

 

[Copernicus]

1. Do you believe it's a sign of baptism in the Holy Spirit? Why or why not?

No. There is no logical argument that leads to the conclusion that speaking in tongues (glossolalia) has any supernatural cause. Rather, the linguistic evidence suggests that it is a perfectly natural phenomenon.

2. Is it a real language (or languages)?

No. It is basically a set of nonsense syllables that people in a high state of religious fervor string together. Linguistic analysis suggests that the range of sounds used tend to be largely native to the speaker's language, although there are some sounds that speakers tend to associate with foreign accents (for example, trilled and flapped "r" sounds).

3. Do other religions speak in tongues

Yes, this is not unique to Christianity. In fact, the behavior was probably inherited from other religious traditions, just as many modern Christian practices have been.

4. What other explanations are there for it?

It really doesn't require any extraordinary explanation. People who wind themselves up into a high state of religious fervor often engage in very bizarre behavior. Glossolalia is not all that spectacular or uncommon.

 

[Muffled]

LOL Quite a strech there.

It appears logical to me.

Jesus as God is all knowing so all the events connected with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit occurring at Pentecost were foreknown.

Jesus is commanding his disciples to wait for this event. That is tacit approval of the event and everything that occurs as part of it.

In addition Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would be there to inform the church and Paul's writings are a direct result.

 

[e.r.m.]

Hello all,

My opinion is that the grace of speaking in tongues has been confused somewhere down the line.

To speak in tongues, as I find it in Scripture is to speak another human language that was not know to the person before the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Filled with the Holy Spirit, the faithful were able to communicate with the Cretes and Arabians in their own language.
The "speaking in tongues" that I have seen in the Protestant church has been a hodge podge of unitelligible grunts, groans, screams, and moanings......... not a language of this earth........
When questioned about this practice, a member of the congregation told me that it was the Holy Ghost speaking and that humans could not understand the language.

Although I do not doubt their personal devotion to God, I do agree with some here that this "gift of tongues" is no more than a self-induced altered menal state....... not the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

The tongues were meant to be interpreted by someone else, so that the group could benefit from the teaching.

I have found no groups that can speak in the "tongue of angels" and have someone interpret it......... I would bet that most of these are false tongues....

but what do I know?

Peace,
Scott

Excellent!

 

[Muffled]

Some Christians believe that speaking in tongues is evidence of baptism in the Holy Spirit. I'm interested in knowing what everyones opinion is on this. I have a few questions. (I might come up with more questions later...)

1. Do you believe it's a sign of baptism in the Holy Spirit? Why or why not?

It was for me and other witnesses appear credible to me.

2. Is it a real language (or languages)?

It is multiple languages most not spoken on earth.

3. Do other religions speak in tongues?

I don't know.

4. What other explanations are there for it?

Many but that doesn't mean any of them are valid.

At this point in my Christian life, I can speak in tongues any time that I enter into the spirit but choose to let the tongues run silently in my head so I don't spook people out. (Most notably in church since the one I attend now is not charismatic)

 

[Muffled]

No. There is no logical argument that leads to the conclusion that speaking in tongues (glossolalia) has any supernatural cause. Rather, the linguistic evidence suggests that it is a perfectly natural phenomenon.

No. It is basically a set of nonsense syllables that people in a high state of religious fervor string together. Linguistic analysis suggests that the range of sounds used tend to be largely native to the speaker's language, although there are some sounds that speakers tend to associate with foreign accents (for example, trilled and flapped "r" sounds).


Yes, this is not unique to Christianity. In fact, the behavior was probably inherited from other religious traditions, just as many modern Christian practices have been.

It really doesn't require any extraordinary explanation. People who wind themselves up into a high state of religious fervor often engage in very bizarre behavior. Glossolalia is not all that spectacular or uncommon.

Logic tends to fail in many things. True logic would assert that there is no more reason for speaking in tongues than there is for not speaking in tongues. However logic also dictates that a premise of an all powerful intelligent God would have the power to produce the phenomenon. re: In the book of Genesis God confuses the tongues of men at the tower of Babel so that many languages resulted from that act.

If you mean that it is natural for men to speak languages, I would agree with you. If you mean that it is natural for a person to speak a language he doesn't know as in Acts 2, I don't agree.

This is a complete fantasy on your part. There is no evidence to support it.

What is this a complaint that the language is not ali9en enough to be considered another language? Who sets the standard as to how alien a language has to be to be a new language? Even if they did, is there any justification for dismissing a language simply because it does not follow expectations?

I have seen no evidence of inheritance.

You can do this until you are blue in the face and still not be in the spirit enough to speak in tongues and besides that it is a gift of God not a right.

 

[waitasec]

This is a complete fantasy on your part. There is no evidence to support it.

here is the evidence....

didn't you already see this?
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2115855-post19.html

 

[outhouse]

Some Christians believe that speaking in tongues is evidence of baptism in the Holy Spirit. I'm interested in knowing what everyones opinion is on this. I have a few questions. (I might come up with more questions later...)

1. Do you believe it's a sign of baptism in the Holy Spirit? Why or why not?

2. Is it a real language (or languages)?

3. Do other religions speak in tongues?

4. What other explanations are there for it?

incoherant babbling showing how weak the human mind is and showing much animal is still left in homo sapiens

 

[Muffled]

here is the evidence....

didn't you already see this?
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2115855-post19.html

Yes, but I only skimmed it. THe text does not say non-sense syllables as shown in this quote: "He reached this conclusion because the syllable string did not form words, the stream of speech was not internally organised, and– most importantly of all– there was no systematic relationship between units of speech and concepts."

How would he know which syllable form words if he didn't know the language. I have that problem sometime in Spanish, trying to pick out words that I know when people tend to run their words together. I find it diffficult to figure out which syllables are making words. This isn't inherent to the language but to our ability to hear and understand. For instance my favorite phrase is "Shan da ba kish" Maybe someone would think it should be syllables for one word not knowing the language but it is in fact four words.

I haven't a clue what he means by this. How would he know whether it was or wasn't?

If by systematic he means that everyone should speak the same language, I don't agree. Sometimes I speak something that sounds very oriental in its inflections. Concepts? My phrase listed above always means the same thing.

 

[Muffled]

incoherant babbling showing how weak the human mind is and showing much animal is still left in homo sapiens

Somehow I find incoherent babbling more comforting than incoherent reasoning. At least I can detect what spirit it is from since words don't get in the way. Sort of like Obama who whispers great things in our ear and then thrusts us into the meat grinder.

 

[gerobbins]

From how I read it in the Bible and my interpretation of it: It says that the Apostles spoke in other tongues, that is, the people could heard them speak in their own language(s) and it was the Holy Spirit allowing them to do so. The gift that was given to the Apostles so they could spread the word for all to understand.

 

[waitasec]

Somehow I find incoherent babbling more comforting than incoherent reasoning. At least I can detect what spirit it is from since words don't get in the way. Sort of like Obama who whispers great things in our ear and then thrusts us into the meat grinder.

the irony

:biglaugh:

 

[arthra]

Some years ago I visited some Pentacostal services however never particpated in them.. and when I didn't particpate with them they didn't think I was filled with the Holy Spirit and suspected me...

Baha'is don't "speak in tongues", however there were some cases where people heard Abdul-Baha speaking in Farsi and could understand what He said! and they had no knowledge of Farsi.. Don't ask me how that happened.

 

[Jainarayan]

From how I read it in the Bible and my interpretation of it: It says that the Apostles spoke in other tongues, that is, the people could heard them speak in their own language(s) and it was the Holy Spirit allowing them to do so. The gift that was given to the Apostles so they could spread the word for all to understand.

^ This.

Glossolalia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Copernicus]

Linguistic studies consistently show that glossolalia does not really represent a coherent language. Rather, the individual emits a string of syllables that contain mostly sounds from their own native language and a small number of sounds that speakers consider "foreign" in some sense. For example, and English speaker might trill "r" sounds. To my knowledge, there is no evidence that glossolalia consists of anything more than repetitious strings of nonsense syllables. Claims that speakers have spoken other real languages such as Farsi by a non-Farsi speaker have never been confirmed.

 

[gerobbins]

^ This.

Glossolalia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interesting,

The Catholic Church teaches that glossolalia is an extraordinary charism, that is, an extraordinary grace of the Holy Spirit given for the Church's benefit and subject to the Church's discernment.[13] Glossolalia is the miraculous ability to speak in a foreign language so that foreigners can hear the Gospel.[14] Hence, glossolalia is not babbling, gabble, uncertain sounds, Pythonic utterances, blasphemy, raving or mad speech, incoherent exclamations, prophesying, or drunkenness.[15][16][17]

 

[Copernicus]

Interesting,

The Catholic Church teaches that glossolalia is an extraordinary charism, that is, an extraordinary grace of the Holy Spirit given for the Church's benefit and subject to the Church's discernment.[13] Glossolalia is the miraculous ability to speak in a foreign language so that foreigners can hear the Gospel.[14] Hence, glossolalia is not babbling, gabble, uncertain sounds, Pythonic utterances, blasphemy, raving or mad speech, incoherent exclamations, prophesying, or drunkenness.[15][16][17]

I'm not surprised. Despite the Pope's infallibility, they don't have a great track record for getting things right. You don't have to check your facts when you have divine will on your side.

 

[outhouse]

Somehow I find incoherent babbling more comforting than incoherent reasoning. At least I can detect what spirit it is from since words don't get in the way. Sort of like Obama who whispers great things in our ear and then thrusts us into the meat grinder.

so your a spirit detector? Awesome!!!!!


lets get this method of your's patened, we will be rich


:tuna:

 

[waitasec]

Linguistic studies consistently show that glossolalia does not really represent a coherent language.

because it's a heavenly language
:sarcastic

the individual emits a string of syllables that contain mostly sounds from their own native language

actually i found it rather interesting, whenever i was around that none sense, people tried to speak their version of aramaic...
english syllables trying to sound aramaic sounds pretty funny


embarrassing.