Special Needs/Disabled/Handicapped

[PoetPhilosopher]

As a Special Needs person, if I try my best and I follow every law, should I still be held accountable for the non-law-breaking mistakes I do sometimes make?

Note: I realize "Special Needs" is an older term most people don't use any more. I have my reasons for using it when applying it to describe myself, though.

 

[Meow Mix]

As a Special Needs person, if I try my best and I follow every law, should I still be held accountable for the non-law-breaking mistakes I do sometimes make?

Note: I realize "Special Needs" is an older term most people don't use any more. I have my reasons for using it when applying it to describe myself, though.

What do you mean by being held accountable if it's something that hasn't broken the law?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

What do you mean by being held accountable if it's something that hasn't broken the law?

I'll list a couple of different general scenarios so people can answer the question:

1. While in a bipolar mood, a bipolar person lashes out at another person. Should the bipolar person be held accountable?

2. A disabled person works a job, but can't do as efficiently as a non-disabled person. Should they be held accountable for the quality of their work?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Accountability is when a person faces consequences or strong review for their performances or actions, in my opinion - that's my definition.

 

[Meow Mix]

I think these situations are a good time for the old adage (don’t tell Revoltingest):

From each what they are able, to each what they need

Responsibility works the same

 

[Deeje]

I'll list a couple of different general scenarios so people can answer the question:

1. While in a bipolar mood, a bipolar person lashes out at another person. Should the bipolar person be held accountable?

IMO, someone who is bi-polar is aware of their difficulty in predicting the times when they may lash out. If medication helps to stabilize the mood shifts, then taking those meds is an obligation to oneself and others. (I have a dear friend in this situation who also deals with OCD inspired suicide attempts)
My son-in-law is also bi-polar and the only times he acted out was when he thought he didn't need his meds anymore....police had to be called..... Refusing medication when it helps to deal with what can be fits of violence should definitely be held accountable.

2. A disabled person works a job, but can't do as efficiently as a non-disabled person. Should they be held accountable for the quality of their work?

If the disability is such that a person cannot reasonably be expected to perform at the same rate as an able bodied person, then the rate at which they can work should be accommodated. The quality of their work however, should be taken into account before employment is offered.....as there is no point in turning out poor quality work for an employer.
The job should fit the person's abilities and disabilities.

 

[Meow Mix]

Consider my job for instance: my position is normally a position that would also take phone calls, but I can't because of my disability. So my employer rationed it out and basically changed the workload so that other people take the actual phone calls while I do most of the stuff that just involves connecting remotely and fixing things, and responding to emails, things like that.

So it's different expectations, but I'm still expected to keep up with stuff and do a quality job with what I'm able to do.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Consider my job for instance: my position is normally a position that would also take phone calls, but I can't because of my disability. So my employer rationed it out and basically changed the workload so that other people take the actual phone calls while I do most of the stuff that just involves connecting remotely and fixing things, and responding to emails, things like that.

So it's different expectations, but I'm still expected to keep up with stuff and do a quality job with what I'm able to do.

If you're familiar with the term Equity or Social Equity... do you view the subject as kind of like that?

 

[Meow Mix]

If you're familiar with the term Equity or Social Equity... do you view the subject as kind of like that?

I think so, yeah

 

[Riders]

IMO, someone who is bi-polar is aware of their difficulty in predicting the times when they may lash out. If medication helps to stabilize the mood shifts, then taking those meds is an obligation to oneself and others. (I have a dear friend in this situation who also deals with OCD inspired suicide attempts)
My son-in-law is also bi-polar and the only times he acted out was when he thought he didn't need his meds anymore....police had to be called..... Refusing medication when it helps to deal with what can be fits of violence should definitely be held accountable.


If the disability is such that a person cannot reasonably be expected to perform at the same rate as an able bodied person, then the rate at which they can work should be accommodated. The quality of their work however, should be taken into account before employment is offered.....as there is no point in turning out poor quality work for an employer.
The job should fit the person's abilities and disabilities.

In TX if a bipolar person lashes out to the extent of being homicidal or just dangerous in that they may assualt others they can end up long term in psych wards.I think if you are a danger to society you should consider treatment in a psych ward. if not then see a psychiatrist and counselor.

 

[pearl]

Refusing medication when it helps to deal with what can be fits of violence should definitely be held accountable.

Absolutely. I had a patient in hospice care who was bipolar and had to live with the knowledge that at a younger age she refused her medication and killed her best friends baby. I understand the side affects of the medication are unpleasant, but given the possible alternative its necessary.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Absolutely. I had a patient in hospice care who was bipolar and had to live with the knowledge that at a younger age she refused her medication and killed her best friends baby. I understand the side affects of the medication are unpleasant, but given the possible alternative its necessary.

In case people were wondering my stance on this branching side subject... yes, I do believe that medicine can be a life-saver.

Also, that's sad to hear that story. Sounds like a pretty extreme case.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Also, why I call this a branching subject, is that people with some of these problems will live a much better life on medicine - they just may not live a life completely symptom free even with medicine.

So in the example of me saying that a bipolar woman "lashes out", I mean in the context of her getting frustrated with someone and unnecessarily telling them off, rather than the more terrible tragedies that can happen for an unmedicated person.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

I'll list a couple of different general scenarios so people can answer the question:

1. While in a bipolar mood, a bipolar person lashes out at another person. Should the bipolar person be held accountable?

2. A disabled person works a job, but can't do as efficiently as a non-disabled person. Should they be held accountable for the quality of their work?

in at least the second case, reasonable accommodation of the disability should be provided, although exactly what that should be can only be decided based on the individual, their disability, and the needs of the employer.

In the first case, does 'lash out' mean physically or verbally? Makes a difference. And even then, accommodation may be provided...depending on circumstances...'lashing out' at a customer probably should result in responsibility...

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

In the first case, does 'lash out' mean physically or verbally? Makes a difference. And even then, accommodation may be provided...depending on circumstances...'lashing out' at a customer probably should result in responsibility...

Sorry, I meant this:

So in the example of me saying that a bipolar woman "lashes out", I mean in the context of her getting frustrated with someone and unnecessarily telling them off, rather than the more terrible tragedies that can happen for an unmedicated person.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Sorry, I meant this:

Ah! Coffee hasn't kicked in all the way yet...

Using my soon-to-be 47-year-old eternally chill teenage 4-year-old [let me unpack that...his 47th birthday is in a couple of weeks, he's pretty much a teenager in interests and attitude, with the cognitive abilities of a child...] as an example:

If he gets excited or upset, and 'lashes out,' does he get held responsible for what he does? Yes he does. He does not get a free pass to behave badly. We use behavioral modification, so our response might be addition of a negative stimulus (punishment), or removal of a positive stimulus. Such an event also leads us to assess what caused the behavior, and to come up with ways to prevent it.

When he was young, Jose did a lot of inappropriate touching...which happened a lot because in the 1980s it seemed that everyone took the Special Olympics approach, that is, hug the handicapped because hugs are good things and the handicapped enjoy them.

No, not all handicapped people enjoy hugs, and some see it a permission to engage in inappropriate behavior...so if it comes up, yes we hold our son responsible for his behavior, even if it was proximally caused by the behavior of others. He has been taught that fist bumps, and now elbow bumps, are the only appropriate contact. but there's still a response available if he chooses to be inappropriate.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'll list a couple of different general scenarios so people can answer the question:

1. While in a bipolar mood, a bipolar person lashes out at another person. Should the bipolar person be held accountable?

2. A disabled person works a job, but can't do as efficiently as a non-disabled person. Should they be held accountable for the quality of their work?

1. Yes. But usually the type of consequence depends on the intent and nature.

2. Only if the disabled person cannot fulfill job requirements with accommodations if needed.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

So the best conceptualization I've obtained based on reading this thread and my own best ideas, is that in life, in the workplace, in relationships, Special needs/disabled/handicapped people don't get a free pass, but Social Equity should perhaps be applied.

And also, in some cases, they may need a different form of discipline, I'm guessing.

When I say Social Equity, what I mean is this. Picture three people. One short. One medium height. And one tall. The tall one can see over a fence. The other two can't. The shortest one is given two boxes so they can see over the fence. The middle height one is given one box so they can see over. Since the tall person is advantaged and capable to see over, they aren't given any boxes.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Here's a picture I was thinking of:

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

There may be a Part 2 to this thread, that I'll probably just post within this one thread, in which I ask people whether it is better for one to be in touch with the strengths and weaknesses of their illness, letting people know how best to approach them and how they may view matters differently, and allowing people to adjust to interact with them, if they want to - or if instead the person with the illness should try their best to hide that they are different within a normal society and if they slip up, it's on them - and that way, people don't have to adjust themselves to be in an environment with this other person.