Spin the Wheel

[Samana Johann]

If by faith you simply mean confidence, fine. Our confidence should be proportional to the amount of evidence we have. It's not either/or. Most things in life we have some degree of confidence or degree of doubt about, and that is perfectly reasonable.

It has reasons why there is doubt. It has it's reason why there is confidence. Even knowing is based on reasons. So yes, reason-able, cause-effected.

Your assumption is that we must remove all doubt to act wisely. This is false. Removal of all doubt about our worldview is quite dangerous; it leads to arrogance, over-confidence, and failure to see your own fallibility. This is the error of fundamentalism.

Nowhere is it suggest that one should not gravely doubt ones views since if they would be right, one would no more doubt, would one? Nothing further to do, released. But since the own opinions are the most weak to relay on, all doubt in teacher, way and those walking, are good if always rejected.

Again, doubt is not a hindrance to work unless it becomes too great. We should have an appropriate amount of doubt depending on how much evidence we have that the action we intend to take is the right one. When we are able to have some doubt or skepticism, it keeps us open-minded to evaluate the results of our actions to correct them if they are wrong or unwise.

It is. If there is doubt that certain work brings it's fruits, it blocks up any effort. Does householder from the West Coast has any evidence of lasting release? If he would have, why still doubt left. It's good to doubt that something actually faced, again and again, would bring another than already known.

Open-minded in terms of just receive what will fall on one? That wouldn't end in deathless unbound, or. Again, maybe a reason to doubt one opinions and tendencies to lead out of the wheel.

I don't see anything wrong with all this overall. But all of it requires requires logical reasoning, inference, consideration of probabilities. If the Buddha's point is simply that we cannot live solely on speculative considerations in our head, and must live out wisdom and truth and love in our lives to really understand them, then I agree.

It's good to doubt that demanding would release and it's good to seek not for someone that would give not much food that one doubts ones usual desires to lead to a different.

To give householder some release here: there should be doubt in what ever wise tell to be an unskillful act, and there should be confidence in what ever wise tell to be a skillful act, and viciversa.

Again, only an Arahat has no more doubt, no more need of believe, and those who can figure the path out for themselves are rare, very, very rare, only appearing in time when the teachings of a Buddha are no more present in this world.

(btw. my person doubts that householder west cost read all given and Lost in Quotation
might help in addition.)

How ever, it was based on purely confidence, absence of doubt, that householder read even that what he did, and based on confidence and lake of doubt, he learned even walking, dressing, reading, search for food... so why wishing to neglect the need of dependency? Simply considering
Debts, but to whom? to walk a step further might be wiser, or.

"What do you think, householder from the west coast? When greed arises in a person, does it arise for welfare or for harm?"

"For harm, lord."

"And this greedy person, overcome by greed, his mind possessed by greed, kills living beings, takes what is not given, goes after another person's wife, tells lies, and induces others to do likewise, all of which is for long-term harm & suffering."

"Yes, lord."

"Now, what do you think, Kalamas? When aversion arises in a person, does it arise for welfare or for harm?"

"For harm, lord."

"And this aversive person, overcome by aversion, his mind possessed by aversion, kills living beings, takes what is not given, goes after another person's wife, tells lies, and induces others to do likewise, all of which is for long-term harm & suffering."

"Yes, lord."

"Now, what do you think, Kalamas? When delusion arises in a person, does it arise for welfare or for harm?"

"For harm, lord."

"And this deluded person, overcome by delusion, his mind possessed by delusion, kills living beings, takes what is not given, goes after another person's wife, tells lies, and induces others to do likewise, all of which is for long-term harm & suffering."

"Yes, lord."

"So what do you think, Kalamas: Are these qualities skillful or unskillful?"

"Unskillful, lord."

"Blameworthy or blameless?"

"Blameworthy, lord."

"Criticized by the wise or praised by the wise?"

"Criticized by the wise, lord."

"When adopted & carried out, do they lead to harm & to suffering, or not?"

"When adopted & carried out, they lead to harm & to suffering. That is how it appears to us."

"So, as I said, Kalamas: 'Don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, "This contemplative is our teacher." When you know for yourselves that, "These qualities are unskillful; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to harm & to suffering" — then you should abandon them.' Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said.

Association with People of Integrity

 

[Hockeycowboy]

There are many religious systems that exist on this planet. How does anyone actually know which one could be the correct one, when none of them can actually verify what they claim as truth factually?

You're exactly right. It would be very hard to do, there being soo many!

But Jesus cut right through that....to ID what are the true teachings, He said to look at their actions.

His words at John 13:34-35, and the Apostle John took it even further, @ 1 John 3:10-15.

And I believe I've found it. A loving global brotherhood, that speaks in agreement (1 Corinthians 1:10), does exist.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why assume there has to be a correct one? Perhaps God created 1000 or more different religions just so folks can find something that aligns with how they are wired, or the circumstances they were born into. He didn't create one flower, he created thousands.

Well, not that many, but certainly more than one or a few...

 

[Trailblazer]

There are many religious systems that exist on this planet. How does anyone actually know which one could be the correct one, when none of them can actually verify what they claim as truth factually?

There is no one correct one, many religions are correct.
The great world religions all teach the same human virtues, such as faith, knowledge, certitude, justice, piety, righteousness, trustworthiness, love of God, benevolence, purity, detachment, humility, meekness, patience and constancy. They all show mercy to the poor, defend the oppressed, and uplift the fallen...

However, it is my belief that only one religion has an important message that humanity needs in this new age, and that religion also has new teachings and laws that are pertinent to the age we live in.

 

[Trailblazer]

Most people choose a religion based on family and feelings. Most people I meet join a religion because it helped them in some important aspect in their life. I actually don't know anybody who joined a religion based on thorough examination of evidence.

That is probably true about most people...
I guess I am a notable exception because I was not brought up in any religion or believing in God. I thus had no feeling for or about God. I was not looking for a religion or God when I stumbled upon my religion during my first year of college, but within two weeks and after doing a lot of reading I came to believe it was the truth from God.

I knew nothing about God back then so God was just a concept. Only much, much later, when I got older, did I get curious about God. I then started to read about God and Messengers of God, and now I have a pretty good understanding of how the whole system works, as much as Goa allows me to know.

One thing I know is that God is a Mystery, so we can never know the Essence of God, His intrinsic nature. I am fine with God being a mystery, I like mysteries. I do not need to see God or hear from God, it is enough to know taht God exists and has certain Attributes and a purpose for mankind.

 

[loverofhumanity]

There are many religious systems that exist on this planet. How does anyone actually know which one could be the correct one, when none of them can actually verify what they claim as truth factually?

They can be verified quite easily. All the major religions I believe originated from the same Source and all teach different and complimentary aspects of the same truths.

For example Buddha and Krishna focused on meditation, mindfulness and detachment, Christ taught love and forgiveness, Muhammad was about community and nation while Baha’u’llah taught about world unity, oneness and justice. We need all these things love, justice, forgiveness, mindfulness and detachment , oneness world and national unity and peace. Virtues such as Hinduism’s ahimsa are essential for our existence so which of these truths can we afford to reject or be without?

We must be lovers of all truth no matter which religion it comes from. Humanity’s survival and advancement depend upon things like trust and honesty which is taught by all these religions.

 

[Lionel Refson]

The only religion that could possibly be the "correct " one is one that has the following attributes:-
1/ Treats every person in the world as being as close to God as the next person, regardless of the religion they actually follow.
2/ Has no religious customs and beliefs, which by their very nature either alienate other non-followers OR make the follower of the said religion believe they are in any way way better, holier, superior or closer to God.
3/ Following on from 1 and 2, does not make the follower feel in any way different to anybody else.
4/ Believes that there is a Creator who blesses all people equally.

None of the Abrahamic faiths are able to satisfy these 3 conditions, therefore they must be ruled out

 

[LuisDantas]

There are many religious systems that exist on this planet. How does anyone actually know which one could be the correct one, when none of them can actually verify what they claim as truth factually?

There is a considerable amount of odd confusion running around regarding this matter.

Despite certain exotic (albeit popular) claims, it does not make logical sense for a religion to be "factually true". What would that even mean? That it exists?

Nor is religion supposed to be a multiple-choice question with most answers turning out "false".

For the sake of sense, we should acknowledge that religious paths have purposes (not always very obvious ones, and fairly divergent purposes among them, but purposes nevertheless) and their validity is mostly a function of how effective they are at attaining those purposes.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The only religion that could possibly be the "correct " one is one that has the following attributes:-
1/ Treats every person in the world as being as close to God as the next person, regardless of the religion they actually follow.
2/ Has no religious customs and beliefs, which by their very nature either alienate other non-followers OR make the follower of the said religion believe they are in any way way better, holier, superior or closer to God.
3/ Following on from 1 and 2, does not make the follower feel in any way different to anybody else.
4/ Believes that there is a Creator who blesses all people equally.

None of the Abrahamic faiths are able to satisfy these 3 conditions, therefore they must be ruled out

I believe that all religions teach truth. And so does science. And that there is truth in every human being believer or not. And that we should accept all humanity as our family unconditionally without prejudice. That’s what my religion teaches me.

 

[Lionel Refson]

I believe that all religions teach truth. And so does science. And that there is truth in every human being believer or not. And that we should accept all humanity as our family unconditionally without prejudice. That’s what my religion teaches me.

Religions do not teach truth, the truth within them is hidden by millenia of lies, plus self-serving doctrine, dogma, custom and tradition. All people within them have honesty, but it is not always their chosen path and yes i do agree with "we should accept all humanity as our family unconditionally without prejudice", but religion is not needed to teach that "

 

[Vinayaka]

Well, not that many, but certainly more than one or a few...

Yes that would be 9 for you. More than a thousand for me. Perhaps even 7 billion.

 

[HonestJoe]

There are many religious systems that exist on this planet. How does anyone actually know which one could be the correct one, when none of them can actually verify what they claim as truth factually?

We can’t. You either have to live with the heady thrill of ignorance or trick your own brain with false confidence.

 

[Lionel Refson]

Why assume there has to be a correct one? Perhaps God created 1000 or more different religions just so folks can find something that aligns with how they are wired, or the circumstances they were born into. He didn't create one flower, he created thousands.

That cannot be correct. What you are implying is that God created many religions for us so that we can murder and kill each other over the milennia, in the name of one religion or another That implies that your God could not have foreseen the carnage that these religions would committ against each other. Therefore either you believe in a pretty non-All kinowing God.or you have it wrong. religions are man-made. After all in the first words God ever spoke to Humanity after the Flood, there was no mention of religion nor religious custom etc.

 

[Vinayaka]

That cannot be correct. What you are implying is that God created many religions for us so that we can murder and kill each other over the milennia, in the name of one religion or another That implies that your God could not have foreseen the carnage that these religions would committ against each other. Therefore either you believe in a pretty non-All kinowing God.or you have it wrong. religions are man-made. After all in the first words God ever spoke to Humanity after the Flood, there was no mention of religion nor religious custom etc.

Where did I imply murder? Lots of religions get along amazingly well with each other.
I don't think in terms of right and wrong. That's outside my paradigm. But you're totally free to think I'm wrong and you're right. I respect the right for folks to believe what they will.

My God isn't separate from his creation.

 

[BilliardsBall]

There are many religious systems that exist on this planet. How does anyone actually know which one could be the correct one, when none of them can actually verify what they claim as truth factually?

There are multiple fallacies of omission in your post:

1) Jesus offered concrete proof of the NT
2) The NT offers concrete proof of OT prophecy fulfilled
3) You assume God is incapable of explaining what true religion is
4) You assume that people motivated to find truth cannot find it
Etc.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Religions do not teach truth, the truth within them is hidden by millenia of lies, plus self-serving doctrine, dogma, custom and tradition. All people within them have honesty, but it is not always their chosen path and yes i do agree with "we should accept all humanity as our family unconditionally without prejudice", but religion is not needed to teach that "

The truths taught by the Educators such as Buddha, Krishna, Jesus. I’m speaking about are the virtues such as love, patience, compassion, generosity, mindfulness, detachment, truthfulness and so on.

What religious clergy teaches often is not what the Founder originally taught.

Religion is the most powerful force on earth capable of uniting people. Obedience to its teachings has the potential to establish peace whereas disobedience to its laws of love & compassion only brings destruction.

I’m not talking about the doctrines and often fallacies and superstitions clergy preach but the virtues taught by the Manifestations of God.

 

[Audie]

They can be verified quite easily. All the major religions I believe originated from the same Source

What you believe only verifies what you believe.

 

[Audie]

Religions do not teach truth, the truth within them is hidden by millenia of lies, plus self-serving doctrine, dogma, custom and tradition. All people within them have honesty, but it is not always their chosen path and yes i do agree with "we should accept all humanity as our family unconditionally without prejudice", but religion is not needed to teach that "

What truth is that and how did you find out about it

 

[Audie]

.

For the sake of sense, we should acknowledge that religious paths have purposes (not always very obvious ones, and fairly divergent purposes among them, but purposes nevertheless) and their validity is mostly a function of how effective they are at attaining those purposes.

It appears that the purpose of the christian church for many
centuries has been to fleece and control the peasants.
It has been quite valid that way.

 

[loverofhumanity]

What you believe only verifies what you believe.

Yes definitely. That’s how it’s meant to be. We each have a mind to search and discover.