What's "spiritual reality?"
So spirituality does have something to do with belief in gods?
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Spiritual Atheism
- Thread starter SalixIncendium
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- atheism spirituality
I believe atheists can easily be spiritual in the humanist sense, but to be spiritual in the transcendent sense it enters a gray area, because to be truly transcendent refers to that which is wholly beyond our physical existence.
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What does "spiritual in the humanist sense" mean?
I believe the best example of 'spiritual' in the humanist sense is the Unitarian Universalists, and the Humanist Manifesto that is their dominant moral and ethical standards. The UUs allow for a diversity of spiritual perspectives in this context like primal cultural beliefs that revere nature.
Spiritual in this sense is the reverence of the human journey in terms of the natural world.
I consider spiritual attributes such as compassion (compathy) and justice to be universal with the nature of humanity regardless of what we chose to believe.
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I'll first start out by saying that I am 'mostly' atheist: agnostic with strong atheistic tendencies. Most of my friends consider me to be a flat-out atheist. And I am definitely a 'materialist' in the sense that I believe that *everything* ultimately depends on the physical aspects of existence. So, consciousness is a matter of brain states, and there are no such things (as far as i can tell) as ghosts, spirits, souls, or other non-physical aspects of existence.
So, if 'spiritual' means that you feel connected to a non-physical aspect of existence, then I am not spiritual at all. The whole range of such beliefs seems rather outlandish and strange to me. I don't see why otherwise intelligent people believe in such stuff.
But that is very far from being what *most* examples of 'spirituality' consist of. When do people usually report feeling 'spiritual'? Well, when they feel connected to others, when they feel connected to the universe at large, when they have feelings of awe and wonder, and when they are better able to grasp their place in this cosmic drama.
And *those* aspects of 'spirituality' are quite familiar to me.
To be out under a star-filled sky with someone I love, gazing up at the wonders around us: that is a time when what I feel seems to be exactly what others describe as 'spiritual'. And that is a feeling that goes deep and is important to my sense of connection and well-being.
When I see a beautiful mountain-scape, when I take an opportunity to help another, when I contemplate the wonders of this universe, those are the times I feel what, it seems to me, is usually called 'spiritual' by others.
So, while these emotions have *nothing* to do with spirits, or a non-physical aspect of existence, or anything to do with Gods, ghosts, or anything supernatural, they *are* a common human emotion and one that I, as an atheist, partake in and hold valuable. And they are often called 'spiritual'.
So, in that sense, yes, atheists can be spiritual.
So, if 'spiritual' means that you feel connected to a non-physical aspect of existence, then I am not spiritual at all. The whole range of such beliefs seems rather outlandish and strange to me. I don't see why otherwise intelligent people believe in such stuff.
But that is very far from being what *most* examples of 'spirituality' consist of. When do people usually report feeling 'spiritual'? Well, when they feel connected to others, when they feel connected to the universe at large, when they have feelings of awe and wonder, and when they are better able to grasp their place in this cosmic drama.
And *those* aspects of 'spirituality' are quite familiar to me.
To be out under a star-filled sky with someone I love, gazing up at the wonders around us: that is a time when what I feel seems to be exactly what others describe as 'spiritual'. And that is a feeling that goes deep and is important to my sense of connection and well-being.
When I see a beautiful mountain-scape, when I take an opportunity to help another, when I contemplate the wonders of this universe, those are the times I feel what, it seems to me, is usually called 'spiritual' by others.
So, while these emotions have *nothing* to do with spirits, or a non-physical aspect of existence, or anything to do with Gods, ghosts, or anything supernatural, they *are* a common human emotion and one that I, as an atheist, partake in and hold valuable. And they are often called 'spiritual'.
So, in that sense, yes, atheists can be spiritual.
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I'm not clear what you are asking since I've basically posted what others have and defined why I thought so.
Grandliseur
Well-Known Member
I have a hard time getting my head around what you are saying. I am a pragmatist. Religion, being spiritual -- is about survival, even if death might be necessary; though, death to me is the return to non-existence, I believe in God's promise of resurrection.
If God had disconnected from his creation fully, his existence or not would be a question without a meaningful answer. Thus people who claim to be skeptics about God, do not realize how they actually hurt themselves. The atheist is promised nothing from God to a degree, except eternal death. The righteous believer is promised life, even perhaps life that might exceed thousands of years. There is no loss when one accepts to live according to His edicts, social norms improve, etc.
Therefore, a spiritual atheist to me is a spiritual corpse, the walking dead. Not much of an incentive, if you ask me.
You said it better than I.
Are you saying an atheist can never be fully spiritual because of wrong belief? What if an atheist went to the correct religion and did the correct prayer would it count?
How does God cut itself off from atheists, isn't it all knowing?
No, fully spiritual? Form the human perspective this would be a highly anecdotal judgement.
Another highly anecdotal judgement zone that does not reflect anything I have posted.
Again . . .
I consider spiritual attributes such as compassion (compathy) and justice to be universal with the nature of humanity regardless of what we chose to believe.
socharlie
Active Member
it is at the end of the day, you mentioned word "belief" - in Greek it means - from pistis- to persuade,
There is a moment when God connects people, in different ways to persuade of Spiritual reality,
we respond as much as we able to receive that signal.
Grandliseur
Well-Known Member
While his knowledge is omniscient in the present, not the future, the teaching is simple. If we are his servants (being obedient within our abilities), we get his attention and may get assistance at times. There are limits that he sets, he decides.
If you claim to be outside what belongs to him, neither believing in him, nor obeying him, he ignores your life to some extent. That is, you get to go through life as you can, even being blessed with lots of riches, as some are, or being extremely poor as others are; however, he shall pay back all their works, be they believers or unbelievers. There is a difference in this, but that is beyond this question.
Atheists in general have their prayers ignored by God. It should be said though, that God will do what he wants to, and if he wants to help someone who is atheist, he will though this is somewhat counter indicated. (I have no say over what God does and doesn't do)
socharlie
Active Member
'spiritual' is a real place, if the can enter it, they can not be atheists.
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
I'm all for atheists who talk soul talk. Spirit speak is a very good way of describing reality. Even for strict materialists. It's a good way of being understandable.
I have a hard time understanding atheists who talk brain states, and emotional drives, mechanistic descriptions of the self. I think without spirituality the whole human experience is reduced, and misconstrued.
Of course many atheists feel liberated by not being spiritual. They can create themselves far differently than a spiritual minded person. It just seems sterile to me though, and impersonal. A lot is lost in terms of meaning and expression.
That's my two cents.
I have a hard time understanding atheists who talk brain states, and emotional drives, mechanistic descriptions of the self. I think without spirituality the whole human experience is reduced, and misconstrued.
Of course many atheists feel liberated by not being spiritual. They can create themselves far differently than a spiritual minded person. It just seems sterile to me though, and impersonal. A lot is lost in terms of meaning and expression.
That's my two cents.
So you limit its omniscience in a small way, that's interesting.
Grandliseur
Well-Known Member
We can tell the orbits of planets and solar systems even, obviously he can do better. He might not know if you are going to have breakfast at some place with a friend in few months and what you both (?) shall order. However, just like humans who plan ahead perhaps 10 or 20 years in city planning, in military needs, God also plans ahead as to what he wants. By his power, wisdom, and determined plans for the world some things will not be permitted to sideline his plans. If anyone attempts to do what is not permitted it will be stopped even if he needs his angels to interfere, even kill such.
Since we are told that he knows even our thoughts, none can hide from his plans and purposes. You might have free will, but it is very limited, if you think about it - did you choose your mother, father, siblings, what country you were born in, if your family had a stable or rich income or were poor?
If God knew all things future we would live in a rerun movie set in diamond cement. Absolute nonsense.
Araceli Cianna
Active Member
I think spiritual can mean on a basic level committed to one's own self improvement. So yes you can be atheist and spiritual. You can also be atheist and religious ("preachy")
I read through all your posts in the thread and didn't see anything that answers my question.
At this point, I really just have a list of things you consider "spiritual" but I don't know why you included those things on the list and excluded others. What makes those things necessarily spiritual?
Need more clarification and rewording, but on the surface his appears 'a my way or no way' response.